Supplements, again

[tasmanien13]

Hello, I Wonder if vitamine E is ok for Pca in the succinate form? Also, can you take Nattokinase with baby aspirine and vit. K? Confused wife. All THE best from Sweden

[tasmanien13]

Thanks!!

[Tall_Allen]

A succinate just means they have esterified it, making it more stable and giving it longer shelf life. It is de-esterified in the gut to normal Vitamin E. Vitamin E causes prostate cancer. Why would you even consider it, unless there is real proof of benefit? In fact, why would you put anything in his body where you have no idea if it is beneficial or harmful or how it affects his other medication? Your husband is not a guinea pig.

[tasmanien13 in reply to Tall_Allen]

My husband is not taking vit.E, but I Saw a post from Pjoshea and I understand that he is using tocotrienols? And also NAC? So I am trying to educate myself in this jungle. Best wishes

[Tall_Allen in reply to tasmanien13]

Anecdotes from other patients are not evidence. You have no idea what those chemicals are really doing to those patients. Some people react to "evidence" that no one should be using for treatment decisions. A case in point is Vitamin E - observational studies (also, a very poor source of information) suggested there was a benefit, but when it was actually tried in a large, well-done, randomized clinical trial, they discovered that far from being beneficial, it actually contributed to prostate cancer. Don't make the same mistake with your husband - his life is on the line.

[tasmanien13 in reply to Tall_Allen]

No he is not going to take it. But I understand that several men on this forum do use various supplements?

[Tall_Allen in reply to tasmanien13]

People make individual choices based on what is right for them. That does not mean there is any convincing evidence behind their choices. I've seen people on this site take known poisons, although most of their choices are probably harmless and accomplish nothing. Just because someone throws out some study or other to back up their beliefs, that doesn't mean that study is worth the paper it is printed on. Most published studies are only meant to generate hypotheses for future testing - not to guide clinical decision making. Knowing which is which is VERY important.

[LearnAll]

There is plenty of Vit E in onions and Garlic...supplements are not needed.

[kaptank]

Natto, aspirin, VitE and Vit K (in the forms of MK 4 and MK7) are compatible. I have taken them daily for about a decade and there is no reason that I know of why the combination may conflict. They are fairly innocuous. There are good reasons why anyone with PCa should be very careful with VitE, Tall Allen has referred to them. Vit E comes in a number of forms. The most common ones are tocopherols and anything labelled VitE will be overwhelmingly them. The less common form, the tocotrienols are found in certain plants and they have been mentioned in dispatches on PCa although as TA rightly says, mostly anecdotal. Entirely different chemical classes but both meeting the definition of VitE. Some people use only tocotrionols, without any mixed tocopherol. If you have PCa its important there is none. I know of only one supplier of tocopherol free tocotrional (Unique Tocotrionol).

[tasmanien13]

Thanks a lot, for what reason DO you take Nattokinase and aspirine? My husband has 2 stints and he is going to start ADT soon. I am trying to get more knowledge how to counteract THE higher cardiovascular risk that comes with ADT. Best wishes

[Jaroslav]

Hi Tasmanien13

Pls find in google Patent US20040175415A1 Formulations and methods of delivery of intact tocopheryl succinate to humans. You will read that Vit E succinate must be applied transdermaly. (In case that it is taken oraly, then the results will be as mentioned above by Tall Allen-in the gut it will be changed to normal vit E. ) Therefore do not take the pils.

Jerry

[tasmanien13 in reply to Jaroslav]

Hi Jerry! I realise now that this is not suitable att all for Pca. Thanks a lot for answering and best wishes

[Jaroslav in reply to tasmanien13]

Hi tasmanien,

If I were in your place , I would read the description of th Patent and only then I would make the conclusion.

Jerry

[tasmanien13]

I Will, thank you!

[RonnyBaby]

I recall multiple sources claiming that Vitamin E was NOT something you should use as a supplement, with PCa.

Don't know about the rest.

I'll simply leave it at that ....

[tasmanien13 in reply to RonnyBaby]

Hi, someone on this forum, One of THE real reputable, wrote about intake of tocotrienols being beneficial for Pca. Maybe I misunderstood?

[j-o-h-n]

What makes me look so handsome:

Vitamin E is most commonly known for its benefits for skin health and appearance. It can be applied topically to your face to reduce inflammation and make your skin look younger. Many people also swear by the effects of topical vitamin E when it's applied to the face overnight.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 05/20/20202 9:55 PM DST

[tasmanien13]

Ok, so that is a better use for it! Agree that you look Young!

[pjoshea13]

Thanks Nalakrats!

There have been a number of PCa cell studies that used α-tocopheryl succinate with good results. The probem is that an oral dose does not survive in that form. One might as well be taking alpha tocopherol - which I believe to be counterproductive in PCa.

Is it OK to take nattokinase with baby aspirin and vitamin K?

Yes.

Baby (low-dose) aspirin is sufficiently strong to inhibit the clumping of platelets - a necessary first step when responding to an internal wound. However, some people respond badly to even the lowest dose. It can be rough on the stomach & cause bleeding.

Nattokinase will boost the natural activity of plasmin, which slowly dissolves clots. Obviously, one would stop using nattokinase when faced with a serious injury, but most of the time, plasmin cannot keep pace with the kind of unwanted clotting that can occur with cancer. D-dimer should be used to monitor the dose - primarily because nattokinase can be expensive.

Vitamin K has no direct coagulation activity. It is merely a nutrient that is essential to the production of a coagulation factor. There are many coagulation factors involved in clot formation, but they do not cause clots to occur by themselves. Vitamin K is essential in a number of areas, but the transportation of calcium to bone is often neglected.

{Warfarin/Coumadin inhibits coagulation by blocking the enzyme that recycles vitamin K. This creates a deficiency of K & also of the associated coagulation factor. It's a clumsy approach. The dose is difficult to get right, long-time users accout for a lot of ER visits, bones get weak & arteries become calcified. What's not to like? However, some men seem to think that vitamin K is generally unsafe - as though a large spinach salad might cause a DVT. LOL}

-Patrick

[tasmanien13 in reply to pjoshea13]

Thanks Patrick. My toughts about adding Nattokinase to babyaspirin was my husbands cardiovascular problems with 2 stints. Adding ADT to this maybe actualises the need for some more blood thinning?I will discuss this with his doctor. I have read that cancer in itself can cause more clotting too. Vitamine K, I understand, is mostly beneficial in directing calcium into the bones so maybe needed to during ADT. This site is a wealth of knowledge and needed so much when yoy enter the PCA scene. I have to apologize for my bad English!

All the best to you