My husband is on early chemo for PC. After his 3rd infusion I started giving him a mushroom extract supplement. The idea was to support his immune system.
He had a pet scan about 9 days after starting the supplement which showed increased activity in his prostate. His PSA also crept up after having had declined.
This supplement contained a large amount of high quality Cordyceps S which fuels PC. Avoid this ingredient If you are concerned about PC.
Also, make sure you are aware of all of the ingredients in a given supplement prior to taking it. We are dealing with a very unfortunate situation due to our naïveté.
I'm sorry to hear of his experience with Cordyceps sinensis.
In 2016 I posted a series on medicinal mushrooms & PCa. I wrote that there were "No PCa studies for Cordyceps sinensis as yet."
From the 2018 study that you cited:
"These results suggest that CS promotes growth of prostate cancer cells by increasing production of testosterone and stimulating the AR-dependent pathway."
Do you think that is what happened in his case? Do you have any testosterone readings?
I think the stimulation of the AR pathway is what winds up being very problematic with Cordyceps. I will say what made me double check the supplement contents was (as if by magic) one morning his “equipment” started working while on ADT and Chemo. I was alarmed!
It seems remarkable that Cordyceps sinensis could counteract ADT in such a convincing manner.
In any event, there is nothing to suggest that it might be useful against PCa.
I suppose that some will now avoid all mushrooms, which would be a shame.
CS has a peculiar life cycle:
"Cordyceps sinensis (CS) is a fungal parasite on the larvae of Lepidoptera. In late autumn, the fungus attacks the caterpillar and leisurely devours its host. By early summer of the following year, the fungal infestation has killed the caterpillar and the fruiting body protrudes from its head. Because of its particular life cycle, it is called the winter-worm, summer-plant in Chinese. CS has long been used as a herbal tonic in traditional Chinese medicine to treat many illnesses in the oriental society."
When I was just starting to get involved in my treatment I met a nutrition doctor (a disciple of Dr. Andrew Weil) who put me on My Community Host Defense mushrooms among other supplements. I note that it contains cordyceps militaris mycelium among its many mushroom varieties, which the following discusses as an industrial version of sinensis. I think I will stop.
Thank you, read and appreciated. I should have mentioned in the above that the source is obviously biased since they are selling a cordyceps product, but I think their logic is valid.
In the murky world of medicinal mushrooms one has to rely on info from biased sources. Who better than someone in the business to explain why the other guy's product might not deliver. It's quite frustrating that I feel that I need to buy turkey tail from the Netherlands.
Interestingly, his blood count was better this round at Nadir. Much better, and he is not taking Nuelasta. And, the only thing that changed was the supplement. Which was, Mushroom Science (Immune) a quality product.
I don’t wish for people to avoid mushrooms at all. As a matter of fact, I have a dear friend who’s husband has no libido (naturally) and I’m going to see if he is interested. This particular supplement seemed to be strong enough to transcend both ADT and chemo and restore spontaneous erections! Nothing was happening in that department (zero) prior and that began to happen about 10 days in!
You are an asset to the community with your knowledge and I thank you for that!
Thanks for posting this. We have vast ignorance of the clinical effects of most supplements. Supplements are drugs. The active principles are concentrated and enhanced far beyond our body's ability to process and detoxify those components that may be in the foods we eat. They are anything but natural. They have not been tested for safety or efficacy, and we really have no idea of what is really in the bottle.
We now have no idea If his treatment is working or not. Thank you, for taking the time to educate the community about all aspects of PC, in particular the importance of knowing what we are putting in our bodies. The implications of supplement use (misuse) are significant, and we unfortunately are learning this the hard way.
Thanks for the warning about mushroom extracts. You are wise, brave, and responsible to tell us about it, thankyou.
The only time I've eaten mushroom extracts is when they have not been extracted, in other words, just eaten mushrooms complete, as they are supplied fresh in supermarkets here and of a harmless variety. But in other cultures, many other types of mushrooms are eaten and of course maybe these ppl know them well. But some varieties of wild mushrooms which grow during spring or autumn are no different to those sold from mushroom farms, so they are OK, but some wild ones which look like the edible ones are deadly. So every years there are cases of ppl getting poisoned by assuming what they saw growing in nearby fields are harmless.
Nobody could know fully what is really in any imported tinned mushrooms or in numerous things that are sold by ignorant suppliers trying to make $$$ by selling some unknow and untested stuff in plastic bag or bottle, with claims of giving cures to some ailments. I just never go near anyone selling unknown or adulterated products.
The idea of supporting the immune system is a bit vague. But while on chemo, I soon found how useless my IS became after chemo, and after No 1 chemo I had to returns to hospital with a fever and signs of unknown infection and IS had crashed, and they kept me on an IV drip with antibiotics for 3 days before letting me go home. But on the day after next 4 infusions, a community nurse was sent to my house to give me a shot of Neulasta which nicely boosted the production of my white cells. This injection works best when given within 24 hours after last chemo shot. I never had any more trouble.
There's never been any sign of having a weakened IS since chemo and since having 4 shots of Lu177 after which there was no need for Neulasta. I am blessed with a fairly good IS, but it sure ain't perfect because if it was somewhat even slightly better, it would see my Pca as enemy and kill Pca cells, but clearly this is not happening. It may happen in other ppl and maybe without anyone being aware of it, including research docs.
Thank you for letting us know of your findings. I’m glad you were able to find it as soon as possible. I wish you both good results with the next cycles.
Thank you, I hope so too! The oncologist now wants to add Carboplatin and of course that is concerning because of the confounding variable (the mushroom extract) PC is such a trial.
Let’s toast to that. A large number of pharma drugs are highly refined compunds occurring in nature (as are supplements!!)... better know what you are taking...
It is in fact a great pity that there are so many charlatans out there, putting stuff into bottles and putting a label and a fancy price onto it. I have been looking for a source of "real" Shiitake mushroom extracts - i.e. the quality products used extensively in the Japanese health systems. The "real thing" has many controlled trials and does show real gains in the immune system and has real anti-cancer credentials. If anyone on this Forum can actually guarantee a reliable supplier, we should all be looking at it as a supplement. The real fresh mushrooms are becoming more available at health food shops, but at a price.
Shiitake mushrooms seem to rank just behind Turmeric in immune boosting power. The latter is easier to get by the pound at a reasonable price. Many on this Forum have a heaped teaspoon of powder daily (and a pinch of black pepper to release the circumin better).
Outside of the USA, chemo is often used in fractional doses in combination with Sodium Ascorbate. The reason is to cut the cost by about 80% and the end results are also usually better than full doses which almost kills the patient each round. The "by the book" doctors scream that the two should never be mixed, but you will not find Vitamin C on the Drug Interactions list of Docetaxel. A common myth. The Ascorbate kills more of the cancer while it is still reeling and weak from the chemo onslaught. A very much safer process if chemo is going to be used. It is also quite common practice to start with a 10% dose and see what happens - chemo turns out to be bad news for most given it as it is so damaging of the immune system (but it works a treat for many others!).
In short, there are many "gentle" options to try before using more sledgehammers in a futile quest to "Get it all!" This is a very slow game played over a period of years. The main rule is the survival time (and quality of life) has everything to do with the state of the immune system. The medications can only slow the growth - it is the immune system that does most of the killing.
Hi David, I m taking a bit more Vitamin C than last time I wrote to you.
I think there's a benefit, and its showing up in my average cycling speed and general feeling of well being - maybe - because I could just be getting better after all of last year's treatments of chemo then Lu177. I'll ask around for Shiitake mushrooms, the lady in local health store might know more.
But so far, my immune system seems unable to see that my Pca is the enemy. This is the real big trouble with cancer; it knows how to hide from Mr Immune so avoids being shot onsight.
I was eating a lot of turmeric, about 100gms a week of the dried stuff for maybe a year but I never thought that did much good.
The trouble with supplements that actually work is we are dealing with a percent or two. Hardly noticeable. The way I look at it is if my immune system is running at about 50%, adding Turmeric's 2% and shiitake mushroom's 2%, ginger, fruit etc. adding another percent or two, I have a 10% boost to my immune system. That will translate into about a 20% better kill by the immune system. That adds up in time to something worth while.
You will get a benefit from extra Vit C (by mouth) as it helps in rebuilding muscle tissues. No surprise you can cycle further. The same reasoning applies to post-operation and radiation recovery times. But zero doctors tell patients to take about 5000mg a day to help heal after the body has been assaulted. It makes a big difference.
Hi Dave, you may be right about the add on herbs and mushrooms, and maybe Vit C is likely to do most good, so with me eating big bowl of salad with many green fresh herbs and vegies, my Vit C would be high, and it won't hurt to have double normal daily dose from pills as well.
I did 40km on bike today, so 165km so far this week, maybe do 20km tomorrow for 180km+ for the week, then rest until Tuesday for next 60km ride.
I'll soon be back to routine for most of last 10 years.
Today's social cycle ride was slow because some of 20 who showed up are 80+. After the coffee break at Australian National Museum café at end of ride, one of the guys, Peter, said he was eager to get home. He's been married for 60 years he said, and I said "Ah, so you're tryna get home quick because you're on a promise eh? " Such a gentleman, and wise and witty, and today's social stop was much better than the last one.
Anyway, right now I don't care what my Psa is doing, been over month since last test, could be going up again like it has so often done in past. I'll cycle over that bridge when I get there.
Many good points here. You clearly know a lot and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with all of us. It’s such a complicated disease process. To have intelligent people around sharing useful information better equips is to make informed decisions in the murky waters of PC treatment.
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