Diet and Prostate Cancer

[85745]

Many of us like myself know much about what is good or not good when it pertains to our diet. That said, I listened to this podcast from Dr. Geo . Figured I would share it. For me it was a good reminder and reinforcing to my diet practices. Hope you all find it helpfull. the-dr-geo-podcast.captivat...

[Nusch]

I live along these recommendations and trust, that I‘m doing the right things. I don’t eat animal or dairy products expect fish, so no steaks or chicken or eggs. I do a full blood test every three months and doing fine without supplements except magnesium, calcium, vitamin D and zinc - because of heavy exercising.

[85745 in reply to Nusch]

I agree, many articles suggest obesity, insulin, diabeties, etc further the rate of progression. For me I was way over on my weight. So I cleaned up my act. My opinion Comorbidities have an active role , if nothing else to quality of life. Keep up the good work. Best

[MoonRocket]

I've listened to a few Dr. Geo podcasts iny time.I'm in the mindset that if on has G6 and G7 (3 +4), you may possibly impact the cancer projection with diet changes. Once you cross over to G8 and above, the dietary impacts are minimal at best. The purpose of diet is focused on keeping one healthy enough to withstand the systemic treatments.

[85745 in reply to MoonRocket]

I may not know how beneficial a good diet is for this cancer, but I am reasonably sure a bad diet can't be good . For me this is just one of many modalities I have incorporated in my protocol. The saying goes when in trouble - stop digging. lol

[JohnInTheMiddle]

I don't find your post helpful. First of all, I strongly object to the post's title, copied from the original podcast flack piece, "What You Need to Know About Diet and Prostate Cancer". This cliche headline is particularly annoying and even arrogant.

A headline like this suggests that someone has done the work of review. Many people posting things on this site have done a good job of assessing the value of a resource. And in their note there might be a little summary and a little analysis of the material. It's lazy and even callous to promote a point of view without sharing how one assessed the material as worthwhile! Or the bona fides of a referenced guru.

On MaleCare via HealthUnlocked we have a population of people where time is precious. To waste the time of a person afflicted with advanced prostate cancer is a kind of crime. And it's even more of a crime to promote low-value or even dangerously misleading or wrong sources of information.

There are a very large number of sources of information on prostate cancer. One has to learn how to pick and choose wisely - every hour spent researching is an hour lost to living! And it's hard to choose! We do not need an enticement to spend time with yet another poorly-evidenced, poorly-reasoned claim about "what you need to know". This is noise.

Interestingly, in this case it's actually tricky to figure out whether this is a good source of information or not! Because the guru in question seems to mix good advice on glucose and diet with what some have accused of as being quackery. It's for tricky situations like that we appreciate the judgment and knowledge of MaleCare contributors.

As for my own work of review, I will post a second reply with some quickly sourced references concerning Dr. Geo and Integrative Functional Medicine. Anyone following the references will have an opportunity to review my concerns.

[85745 in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

I am not here to engage in information warfare, Only information. I try to post articles that have more than one write up on the subject matter. Freedom of information or access to, is a fundamental right we are all intitled too, along with freedom of ones own personel choice when making ones own medical decisions, or I would think the right to any open source info that may be or not to be ,part of any process . Being steared in any one direction and or limiting information could hinder any decision making. ad hominem attacks on the provider of information rather than viewpointing the content is counter productive to any discussion.

[questionanything in reply to 85745]

thank you for sharing info. Always appreciated!

[85745 in reply to questionanything]

Thanks , Glad to hear , question anything - Nice handle !

[dhccpa in reply to 85745]

I doubt you fellows have a real disagreement, just an Internet event. No great need to argue here.

[HikerWife in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

Thank you, John.

[Chris_Ali in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

Thank you for this reply. Posting a link to some rando podcast is a waste of precious time and space.

[JohnInTheMiddle in reply to Chris_Ali]

"rando podcast" 😂

[JohnInTheMiddle]

Reddit From 2010 (see also comments)

sciencebasedmedicine.org/lo...

Bio ("naturopathic functional medicine doctor ")

med.nyu.edu/faculty/geovann...

From 2013

edzardernst.com/2013/06/top...

On "Integrative Functional Medicine":

quora.com/Theres-an-organiz...

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fun...

David Gorski on IFM (2016, 2018)

sciencebasedmedicine.org/fu...

sciencebasedmedicine.org/fu...

Fierce Autie on FN (2020)

fierceautie.com/2020/10/13/...

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

Rabbit traps needed

I found the solution

[JohnInTheMiddle in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

😂 OMG can I give you 10 thumbs up? As they say "a picture says a thousand words!"

[MrG68 in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

Does that include Dr Fauci ?

[MrG68]

Here's a question. Out of all the people who have a diagnosis of prostate cancer, how many of those people were presiously doing a ketogenic type diet? Also bearing in mind that it's taken many years to get to this stage.

I would hazard a guess at a very very small percentage. So people in general were not utilizing ketones. This suggests that prostate cancer is well capable of sustaining and thriving on other food sources since all these people emded up with PCa. The obvious source that is available is glucose, becaue why would a cancer adapt to a different source if there's one readily available. But maybe it still does. To suggest that PCa does't utilize glucose if its available doesn't really make sense - to me anyway. Maybe at a different stage it switches from glucose, you know because it just can. But this also suggests that if you have multiple sources it can use, removing one of those mightn't give you the results you hoped for.

The thing that I wonder is, what source available to PCa will grow the cancer at a lower rate? Maybe ketones help it grow faster? Maybe not.

I don't think this guy actually has underlined why he believes what he does by references. So its hard to judge for youself how much weight it all carries. Doesn't mean he's wrong, just that you can't judge for yourself if he's wrong or not

You read articles saying that if you reduce pro IGF1 foods like animal protien it will slow growth. That may be true, but it will also have an effect on building muscle which can lead to issues.

What I find interesting though, is the work by Gábor Somlyai and deuterium depleted water. He states that as IGF1 receptors are stimulated, they do indeed trigger cell division. If I understand his research right, the IGF1 receptor stimulation triggers hydrogen to leave the cell as part of the electron transfer train to generate water and ATP for energy. The flow of hydrogen drives the process. There is also deuterium, in the cell. As the hydrogen leaves the cell, the ratio of D:H goes up and this is also required for the cell division to happen. So drinking deuterium depleted water can be ised to lower this ratio and inhibit cells division.

Why am I mentioning this? Well, if you believe this research, you'll understand that lowering deuterium intake from food and water also reduces this ratio. What foods have the lowest deuterium? Fats - animal and plants. Grass fed animals are also even lower. Plant based food via carbs has very high deuterium. A keto and/or carnivore diet have significantly less.

Also, the water you drink out of the tap its extremely high in DDW.

Have you ever wondered how animals can survive in the desert where water is scarse? They achieve it because their mitochrondria generate ATP AND water - just like ours. This is DDW. So you should aim to hydrate yourself from fats, and not so much from tap water. Yes drink if you're thirsty but don't sit there and try to unecessarily hydrate yourself because someone says you must drink 2 liters of water a day. Urine is a yellow color, not clear. Check out animals urine color. It's not clear.

So in general, your food should be high in fats, especially if a plant based diet, and limit water intake if possible. This is irrespective if you do carnivore, keto or vegan.

It depends on what you read and what you believe to be true. Search pubmed for deuterium depleted water. There's a lot of articles in there.

You can't rely on reductionist research in its entirety. Yes some are better than others. But there are millions of confounding parameters on every study and it will never be ethical to lock twins in labs to definitively get the reasearch to prove something for sure. EVERY trial and research paper has these. This is why whatever path people choose, it works for some and not for others. The only way to find out is to try and see what works for you individually.

Edit: when I say fats are low in deuterium, it doesn't mean processed seed oils. These are extremely high. They're right off the chart. The oils which are lowest are lard and tallow. Avocado fats are higher than the animal fats but still at a relatively good level.

[85745]

Thanks will look into this, I was way overweight, prediabetic , fatty liver, blood pressure high, swollen feet, was told lose it or else , Went on Dr Berg keto plan 1yr in lost 127 pound only to get diagnosed with stage 4 Pc. So now it's not keto it's certain veg and fish , add some lentils, egg whites, plenty avocados, maybe twice a month chop meat burger. cut out almost all dairy kefer 3 times a week/ 4 oz. 2/wk grnd chicken breast patty. My BP is now 120/70 was 145-155 . Glucose 128 now 90 as low as72. liver, kidney #'s all good. So for me live and learn and make the adjustments as needed. I doubt all I am doing is going to achieve NED , but it may slow it down. Or maybe conventional medicine will find a break thru. I no longer have my overweight problems so thats good. Best

[Mascouche in reply to 85745]

Eating well and exercising might not fight off cancer but it does improve overall health and one would be hard pressed to find something with improving one's health.

[maley2711]

Is this the guy?

aanmc.org/success-stories/a...

[Dastardly]

Diet is a very personal thing. I am stage 4 with extensive mets. I do not believe cutting out all the foods I enjoy will improve my longevity by one second. It will make me extremely miserable though, and that will almost certainly finish me off quicker. So, I appreciate you are trying to help, but I I will most certainly not be following any of your recommendations.

Have a nice day though.

[85745 in reply to Dastardly]

As you stated : Diet is a very personal thing, I agree that's why I never push or promote nor project anything I post to be something one should do. I share my experiences only on my own personel level , and provide open sourced infomation widely available. The day information can no longer be shared, in my opinion the battle is lost. Best

[London441]

Just as our disease is heterogeneous, so is our degree of response to diet. Obviously it’s not particularly helpful to look back, but one can’t help to wonder the difference between the overall effectiveness of a a exhaustively researched, highly specific diet-no matter how life giving-that one takes up at 60 or 70 years old, and one that has been relatively ordinary but lifelong.

Further, what kind of diet did the first 60 years entail? More to my point, what was the overall health in that time?

Particularly strength and cardiovascular fitness, which is considerably more important than diet anyway.

The world bursts at the seams with people of all ages who have made major changes in their diet and/or exercise habits very recently. At age 60 or 70, it’s tough. Good for them! It’s never too late to make quite a difference.

The sad fact is that most of those changes will be temporary. Often a cancer diagnosis provides the incentive for lasting change, but not necessarily.

The OP is 68 and lost 127 lbs shortly before his diagnosis, which I presume is not long ago. I wonder what the health history was. Being 127+ lbs overweight in your 60’s almost certainly comes with a past of poor exercise habits and possibly a toxic diet. It usually does.

I won’t speak for him, it’s speculative of course. By his account the change was driven by a wake up call from his MD, but the syndrome is the same at any age. The vast majority of people who lose that much weight gain it back before long.

I am in no way critical of the OP; again great job! It is absolutely MUCH better late than never to revamp diet. Again, revamping strength and fitness is better still.

We have so little time, especially now. I would never spend my time being as particular about my diet as some I see here. For me it’s a simple deal. High in fresh vegetables spices, protein etc. Dairy and eggs I don’t worry about. No processed food. Yes food containing sugar/simple carbs I eat occasionally, I enjoy them.

Eating too much is way more harmful than what you eat when you’re older, and only becomes more so over time.

[j-o-h-n]

Question? If you hadn't lost 127 lbs. on Dr. Berg's keto plan, would your UserID have been 85872?

Bon Appétit...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Thursday 01/18/2024 12:42 PM EST

[85745 in reply to j-o-h-n]

I may need to change my user id and jump back in once my diaper rash clears up, lol

[j-o-h-n in reply to 85745]

Jump right in... the water's fine.....

BTW Best way to stop diaper rash is, don't wear 'em

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Thursday 01/18/2024 5:35 PM EST