Is Zytiga Really This Good?

[Ewhite99]

My PSA climbed to 20 recently after having dropped to 0.2 in December 2016 after Chemo. After one month on Zytiga, my PSA dropped from 20 to 0.95! is this typical? Does Zytiga normally produce these kinds of results? I don't understand how it can be so effective when it basically does what Lupron does and I've been on Lupron for two years.

[Shooter1]

lupron blocks production of testosterone. Zytiga and Xtandi blocks receptors so can work against the the % that is not hormone sensitive too..

[Hidden in reply to Shooter1]

?? Cancer that is not hormone sensitive does not need androgen to be activated. What's to block? It's like the Casey Stengle line, if people don't want to come, you cant stop them.

These two, I believe, prevent the adrenals from synthesizing androgens that apparently can also activate the AR, or they block the AR in androgen sensitive prostate cells.

[Shooter1 in reply to Hidden]

As others have stated " I'm not a doc ", just know that while on Taxotere, between 4 and 5 PSA started to climb and Xtandi pushed it back down. Whatever it blocks sure is working for me. 4 1/2 months off Taxotere and holding at PSA 0.140 area with Xtandi. Last test 0.137.

[Hidden in reply to Shooter1]

No problem. My comment was that there is a difference between hormone sensitive and castrate resistant. The concepts are used a lot.

[whatsinaname in reply to Shooter1]

Hi Shooter1,

How many days after you went off Taxotere did you start Xtandi ? Any reason why you did not first use Zytiga and then Xtandi ?

Thank you very much for your time.

[hi3aw4 in reply to whatsinaname]

Was right in the middle of taxotere when PSA started climbing again. We assumed Lupron wasn't doing its full job. Added xtandi and PSA started to drop 25% per cycle again. As per a new study just in xtandi was more effective for long turn survival with my type of cancer. No clean borders and pathology showing Gleason 9/10 in all nerves and veins out of prostate area. No target for radiation without lots of perifferal burn damage to colon and blatter. It's working so far at 86 mg dose average /day.

[whatsinaname in reply to hi3aw4]

Thank you very much, hi3aw4, for that information.

[Kezza2]

Consider yourself lucky - mine never got below 2.0 on Zytiga so it might be an indication of greater effectiveness for your particular PCa

[chillywilly]

It has been good for me so far. My PSA dropped from 138 to 22 to 0.8 in two and a half months after starting my Lupron/Zytega/Prednisone treatment.

[Schwah]

The way I understand it understand it in layman’s terms, Lupron stops the pitcher and Zytega stops the catcher. Lol. Hope that helps. Interestingly the latest studies have shown that Zytega and Lupton together have far better long term results than either does alone

Schwah

[andrew61]

Xtandi blocks receptors. Zytiga blocks other testosterone sources such as adrenal glands and PCa itself. Lupron plus Zytiga gets testosterone done to near zero.

[Jrb12]

I have been holding steady since August 2017 at 0.2 with the Xtandi, Lupron combo with no side effects other than "hot flashes". Thank you Lord!

[leo2634]

I have been on Zytiga, Eligard injection since February and PSA is undetectable from 14.7 in just one month treatment. My doctor has also given me this as my first line of treatments. I might add that I feel better than I have in years and no side effects other than hot flashes which are tolerable and the complications of E.D. which can be addressed .I'm not implying by any means that Zytiga is a wonder drug but I do wonder how I could do without it. If you read most of the posts on this forum there is a wealth of information from very knowledgeable people who have been on a number of treatments and Zytiga somehow is always mentioned as a good fighter against our common enemy APC.

[mcp1941 in reply to leo2634]

It is possible to do without zytiga, for a while anyway. PSA was undetectable after 2 months. After 9 months taken off all hormone therapy. Went on a two and a half year holiday before restarting hormone therapy.

[Litlerny]

Apparently, the consensus of opinion is that Zytiga really is that good, and “no” it does not work in quite the same way as Lupron does, plus it blocks other sources of androgen production such as the adrenal glands, which makes it a great complement to Lupron, Eligard, etc. Enjoy the positive results! 😎

[Zytigadude]

I am 51 yo, I was diagnosed Gleason 9(4+5) with a PSA 5.4. Had RP and began Lupron/Zytiga/Prednisone and radiation. Currently my PSA is <0.008. So, the combination, for me, has been a knockout punch. Of course the real tell all will be in another 1.5 years when I come off the Lupron/Zytiga/Prednisone and begin producing testosterone again. Crossing my fingers that this will be the end. My symptoms are hot flashes, weight gain, muscle loss, fatigue. But I feel really well. Cheers!!

[Noel91 in reply to Zytigadude]

Hello Zytigadude, Did you have radiation in the surgery part or in the mets as well.Father is now with radio in the pelvis to eliminate the surgery reimains.

Thank you!

[Zytigadude in reply to Noel91]

Hello Noel91, great question. Although Inhave positive margins I have had no metastises into other organs or bones. My radiation consisted of TrueBeam radiation of the prostate bed only. They determined that since my bone scan was negative and my lymph nodes and Seminole Vesicles were both negative they would leave the pelvic area alone at this point. I will finish the last of my 40 treatments this coming Tuesday 6/12/2018. Wishing your father the best during his treatments

Shawn

[Noel91 in reply to Zytigadude]

Thank you Shawn, I hope you keep doing well!

[Break60]

Not with xofigo apparently. See below:

ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/do...

[Daddysdaughter]

Have you had any experience with it fluctuating PSA levels? Most I’ve read here about it dropping PSA significantly with subsequent months dropping. My fathers actually dropped from 98 to 59 in 13 days and then not went up 1 month later to 65.

What do you think?

[Patrick-Turner in reply to Daddysdaughter]

I had Lucrin injections beginning in 2010 when Psa was 8.8 and after docs found my Pca at PG was inoperable, because too much Pca was outside the capsule and covering up areas they had to cut. I'm still on ADT.

But in 2016, Psa went up to 6, and I had more RT to PG began Cosadex and Psa went down to 0.4, then went up to about 6 in 2017, so I began Zytiga and Psa went to 2.0, and stayed there for 2 months then up again to about 12 when I began Doetaxel chemo. Psa went to 27, 26, 35, 45, 36, and after 15 weeks and 5 chemo injects the chemo was deemed to have failed, and I was referred to a doc offering Lu177, and had my first injection exactly a month ago, which was 1 month after quitting Docetaxel. But Psa went down to 26 just before I began Lu177, so did the chemo just make my Pca worse?

Did the chemo do any good at all? Did the Pca in soft tissues get smaller, but bone mets get bigger?

Nobody knows the answer to these questions because once a man gets to need chemo or Atomic Warfare to deal with life threatening Pca mets, the relationship of Psa to cancer threat becomes hard to define, and one month after my first mini atom bomb with Lu177, I have had a Psa test, and will know what that was in about 8 days when I talk to my Atomic Doctor who supervises the bombing with Aunty Lutetia.

I am hoping that my personal Puff Tha Magic Prostate Grenade has finally been safely defused by aunty Lu, and along with many of Puff's decendants who spread to many new homes in lymph nodes and to the castles of my body, my bones, where once inside, they feel safe against haughty doctors trying to spoil their parties with silly simple chemicals. So if my Psa has gone below 26, it may be because soft targets in soft tissues were easily bombed by my dear aunty Lu, but we have no clue yet if any of her bombs were able to stifle the Pca party games in my bones. My guess is that the bone fix takes longer.

But after chemo "failed", what else was there? Not a lot, and had that happened only 5 years ago, I'd be probably dead now, or severly disabled by side effects of chemo, which to me seem far worse than Lu177, although, I can be sure I get a dry mouth and dry eyes if I have another 3 Lu177 shots.

The future CT scans will show if any bone met size gets bigger, but maybe not show them getting smaller. The PET scans may show if there is PsMa avidity, and if there is less, it means there's less Pca - maybe - because I may have substantial amounts of mutated Pca that is not PsMa avid, and does not make much Psa; so I am living in a land called Hoo Noze where nobody really knows anything for sure, and all treatments are a gamble.

If my Psa suddenly plummeted to 1.0 by 24 December, I might even begin to believe that Father Christmas exists, despite complaints from ppl who found the droppings from reindeers ruined their suits they wore to Xmas parties.

Today I cycled 31km across town and 31km back, and it got up to 28C for last hour of ride and yet I felt pretty good, so, if my Pca is real bad, then its trying to be nice about it, but I do realise that later it will stop all this silly charade and kill me dead. But it does not seem like this horrid event will happen tomorrow.

I live now, in this epoch of some available medicines, and time of funded retirement. If I'd been in 1447 instead of 1947, I'd have probably died after 50 years of life, or maybe 20, had I been forced to join some army, or been taken by plagues. I'm not sure I'd want to live to see 2047 because I fear humanity will have become its own worst enemy due to excessive consumption of STUFF that Santa Claus finds too difficult to deliver at Cristmas time, especially when snow has become so rare.

In 2047, there may well be cures for cancer, and that's the result so far of overpaid researchers with good will and of markets. So as I age, my mind drifts from my demise to that of the Whirled, ie, that teeming bunch of 7 billion battlers whirling around on a little blue planet in a Universe that is trillions of billions times bigger than us, and which so far has shown complete reluctance to aid us and fix our pains of existence, ie, the pains of love, life, hate, hunger, and yet more STUFF.

I can only accept treatment, savour NOW, and I know that I don't know much, but right now I am able to say I'd prefer a new bicycle to a new Ford, or Lamborgini.

As I look out my window, its 7pm on this warm summer evening, and a magpie is running about the grassy area looking desperately for things to feed her young one, whose wings and skills are yet to mature.

But a larger bird, a currawong has arrived, and I thought he/she might be a danger to the smaller magpie chick, but then the currawong's little one descends from a tree, and so I have 4 humble creatures all just trying to make a go of it, get their young to be independent, and there's no war between any of them at this minute....... So nobody can say there is no goodwill within Nature to be found.

Patrick Turner, XXXXOOOXXXX.