Update on Bat protocol after 14 months

[bigdon]

Started BAT on 75th birthday with psa just starting to rise after 11 years of IADT with several vacations of 9 to 16 months of just Avodart and supplements mainly consisting of pom seed extract and green tea extract. MO and I determined that I became castrate resistant when last 4, 2 month psa results showed increases of +10%, + 36%, + 33% and + 40% from .1 to .28. with DT of ~ 114 days.

Currently I am 408 days into BAT and just started into cycle 3 of T injections that elevate T to 1500+ every 28 days.

My current psa starting into this 3rd cycle is 2.2 and T is 5.

My calculations indicate that, at a modest estimation, had I not started BAT my current psa would be 9+. This of course assumes I would have just stayed on ADT.

My psa has over the last 404 days ranged from .28 at onset to 5.88 at the highest.

I am no longer concerned about T levels with regard to my pc.

So far during this sojourn, I have had 6 months of normal+ T and several side benefits including regrowth of leg, chest, belly and pubic hair in modest amounts. Evident increases in energy and definitely some libido improvements and an ability to find my willy!

I will be glad to provide some of the statistics with regard to psa level and T level at various stages.

Bottom line, I see this protocol as a way to defer chemo (taxanes) and xytiga and xtandi until last resort. In addition, tests, if I interpret them properly, have shown that some may benefit by reversal of cr and second line treatment failures.

May God bless you all and keep the beast at bay.

Bigdon

[Hidden]

Very interesting information. Are you in a clinical trial? Who is your oncologist? I have been trying to get my T increased but my oncologist refuses.

Any info will be appreciated .

Raul

[bigdon in reply to Hidden]

No, not in a trial but am using John Hopkins protocol from Denemeade. I would suggest finding a MO that is willing to work with other specialists.

[Hidden in reply to bigdon]

Sorry my ignorance, but what is Denemeade protocol?

[Frank_M]

I also would be most grateful for precise details of the treatment regime. My onc never heard of it but is open to suggestion.

~ Frank

[bigdon in reply to Frank_M]

Look up BAtman study on this site or search. details of protocol and results are available.

[Hidden in reply to Frank_M]

Link to study and protocol

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/292...

[tsim in reply to Frank_M]

get a different oncologist, NOW

[Hidden]

I found it, It is :

Samuel Denmeade, MD Johns Hopkins School of Medicine - Sidney Kimmel Comprehensive Cancer Center

[Frank_M in reply to Hidden]

Many thanks Bigdon and Raul80. Very grateful.

~ Frank

[Hidden]

Link to the BAT study and protocol

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/292...

[bigdon]

Rats, one thing I wanted to bring out is how the on cycles of High T can bring a normal feeling without the terrible tiredness and couch potato syndrome of ADT. In the 2 weeks of my 3rd on cycle of high T, my energy level has dramatically increased. Even joint and back pain are alleviated.

After the 2nd cycle I had full body and bone scans done and no new mets were found. My MO even remarked that the small lymph node I was initially Dxed with showed a decrease of size over the last scan I did 10 years ago. This may not be for everyone but it has improved my QOL for the last year.

Bigdon

[bigdon]

Just a shortening of your name. sorry if you take offense at my effort to be brief and a little humorous. I think based on your proclivity to try new ,maybe even controversial things in your journey through this nightmare you will eventually land is high T land. I used BIRM for 9 months while on this protocol because of you and others who felt it was beneficial.

Bigdon

[Hidden]

The same has been observed with the Lu 177 therapy.

Perhaps is the competition of the PC clones. In patients receiving testosterone, hormone sensitive clones stop dying and will multiply faster and eventually they may predominate over the castration resistant ones.

Since castration resistant clones have more PSMA they are killed disproportionately more by the Lu 177 treatment than hormone sensitive clones which do not have so much PSMA .

These processes could lead to a predominance of hormone sensitive clones and the cancer starts responding again to lupron or similar and to anti androgen drugs.

Perhaps the combination of BAT and Lu177 therapy could have a role in moving again the cancer to a hormone sensitive stage where is easier to control.

[bigdon in reply to Hidden]

Possible but the science is a little beyond my pay grade to opining beyond what I have already done.

bigdon

[Hidden]

Sorry for my ignorance, what is BIRM?

[bigdon]

I thought you may have misunderstood about the nickname, I'm not a great communicator on this media so that's behind us. I would like to get info on more productive/effective BIRM as I ,like you am not afraid to get out of the box, so to speak. my main purpose is to get more people to be more in charge of their own treatments. My first uro was not about to include me in my own treatments when he refused to persribe Avodart as a 3rd prong in my ADT. Summarily Fired!! My MO since has listened, suggested and offered to work with anyone in the country that I would like to employ. Early we discussed Libowitz and other protocols as they came along.

As a side note, I enjoy you and /Gusgold. Humor is precious, lets don't lose it.

Bigdon

[bigdon]

Thank you, I will act on that info tomorrow.

Bigdon

[Don1157]

I bet Willy was happy! Good luck!

[Hidden]

Thanks for posting it again.

[George71]

Hi, Bigdon,

Give me an update on your BAT therapy -- I am considering trying it -- am not on anything but Avadart currently. PSA is .5 -- not sure what to do.

[GeorgeGlass]

Don, how are things going now? I just noticed this post from a year ago? Is Denmeade your MO? I need an MO who is open to adding other things too. Mine seems reluctant to add casodex or Avodart. Have those two been proven to extend castrate resistance time?

Are you still doing the BAT therapy?

George

[bigdon in reply to GeorgeGlass]

George

I'm seeing my MO tomorrow to get latest results.

I will respond this week after I get results.

Don

[Scout4answers]

Hi BigDon

Have not seen a post from you lately... what is your current status?

Scout