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Advanced Prostate Cancer
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Update on Bat protocol after 14 months

Started BAT on 75th birthday with psa just starting to rise after 11 years of IADT with several vacations of 9 to 16 months of just Avodart and supplements mainly consisting of pom seed extract and green tea extract. MO and I determined that I became castrate resistant when last 4, 2 month psa results showed increases of +10%, + 36%, + 33% and + 40% from .1 to .28. with DT of ~ 114 days.

Currently I am 408 days into BAT and just started into cycle 3 of T injections that elevate T to 1500+ every 28 days.

My current psa starting into this 3rd cycle is 2.2 and T is 5.

My calculations indicate that, at a modest estimation, had I not started BAT my current psa would be 9+. This of course assumes I would have just stayed on ADT.

My psa has over the last 404 days ranged from .28 at onset to 5.88 at the highest.

I am no longer concerned about T levels with regard to my pc.

So far during this sojourn, I have had 6 months of normal+ T and several side benefits including regrowth of leg, chest, belly and pubic hair in modest amounts. Evident increases in energy and definitely some libido improvements and an ability to find my willy!

I will be glad to provide some of the statistics with regard to psa level and T level at various stages.

Bottom line, I see this protocol as a way to defer chemo (taxanes) and xytiga and xtandi until last resort. In addition, tests, if I interpret them properly, have shown that some may benefit by reversal of cr and second line treatment failures.

May God bless you all and keep the beast at bay.

Bigdon

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Very interesting information. Are you in a clinical trial? Who is your oncologist? I have been trying to get my T increased but my oncologist refuses.

Any info will be appreciated .

Raul

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No, not in a trial but am using John Hopkins protocol from Denemeade. I would suggest finding a MO that is willing to work with other specialists.

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Sorry my ignorance, but what is Denemeade protocol?

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I also would be most grateful for precise details of the treatment regime. My onc never heard of it but is open to suggestion.

~ Frank

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Look up BAtman study on this site or search. details of protocol and results are available.

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Link to study and protocol

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/292...

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get a different oncologist, NOW

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I found it, It is :

Samuel Denmeade, MD Johns Hopkins School of Medicine - Sidney Kimmel Comprehensive Cancer Center

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Many thanks Bigdon and Raul80. Very grateful.

~ Frank

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Raul 80, We’ve watched this video of Dr. Denmeade’s presentation in Feb. 2017 a couple of times and found it Informative—maybe not for you but for others on this site. And thanks to bigdon for the post! Mrs. S

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Thanks for posting it again.

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Link to the BAT study and protocol

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/292...

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It has become known that treatment with T, be it BAT or High T therapy, can resensitize Xtandi and Zytiga, after an initial failure. The theory is that the AR-V7 gene splice is turned off by high T, allowing 2nd line treatment drugs to work, or work again.

Nalakrats

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Rats, one thing I wanted to bring out is how the on cycles of High T can bring a normal feeling without the terrible tiredness and couch potato syndrome of ADT. In the 2 weeks of my 3rd on cycle of high T, my energy level has dramatically increased. Even joint and back pain are alleviated.

After the 2nd cycle I had full body and bone scans done and no new mets were found. My MO even remarked that the small lymph node I was initially Dxed with showed a decrease of size over the last scan I did 10 years ago. This may not be for everyone but it has improved my QOL for the last year.

Bigdon

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The same has been observed with the Lu 177 therapy.

Perhaps is the competition of the PC clones. In patients receiving testosterone, hormone sensitive clones stop dying and will multiply faster and eventually they may predominate over the castration resistant ones.

Since castration resistant clones have more PSMA they are killed disproportionately more by the Lu 177 treatment than hormone sensitive clones which do not have so much PSMA .

These processes could lead to a predominance of hormone sensitive clones and the cancer starts responding again to lupron or similar and to anti androgen drugs.

Perhaps the combination of BAT and Lu177 therapy could have a role in moving again the cancer to a hormone sensitive stage where is easier to control.

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Well put from a logical scientifically kind of thesis.

Nalakrats

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Possible but the science is a little beyond my pay grade to opining beyond what I have already done.

bigdon

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Why Rats--all the news is good/great--I am also in communication as to possibly being a future recipient of the Batman Protocol--if I have a biochemical failure, as to my vacation.

Nalakrats

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Just a shortening of your name. sorry if you take offense at my effort to be brief and a little humorous. I think based on your proclivity to try new ,maybe even controversial things in your journey through this nightmare you will eventually land is high T land. I used BIRM for 9 months while on this protocol because of you and others who felt it was beneficial.

Bigdon

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No---no offense---just did not know what Rats was--in slang in means DARN--I did not get it. I used BIRM, and do today not because of anything, but the Research, I pulled on BIRM, as an ANTI-AIDS protocol in the late 1990's and early 2000's, that had great success---actual patients who used it for various cancers, and their success stories--the USA patent it had, and now the NIH funding of research at the Univ. of Miami medical school, against Prostate Cancer. It appears the BIRM product most effective is the 7X strength, not the single strength you get from Amazon.

Hope you did not use this totally because of me--as I am very cautious, not to prescribe, anything--that I am not a Doctor, and I am just reporting, and yes I do reference things I myself use. You all have to do your own research. I may not say that often enough.

Nalakrats

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I thought you may have misunderstood about the nickname, I'm not a great communicator on this media so that's behind us. I would like to get info on more productive/effective BIRM as I ,like you am not afraid to get out of the box, so to speak. my main purpose is to get more people to be more in charge of their own treatments. My first uro was not about to include me in my own treatments when he refused to persribe Avodart as a 3rd prong in my ADT. Summarily Fired!! My MO since has listened, suggested and offered to work with anyone in the country that I would like to employ. Early we discussed Libowitz and other protocols as they came along.

As a side note, I enjoy you and /Gusgold. Humor is precious, lets don't lose it.

Bigdon

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The 7X extra strength BIRM, can be obtained by calling---408-612-6508--Distributors of it in Calif.

By the way I do not dilute mine when I take it---on an empty stomach, I use a 3 Ml syringe--take up 2 Ml's and squirt down the back of my throat--I have gotten use to the taste--I do not mix it into anything--as a chemist I am concerned about dilution, of something, of the nature of BIRM.

Nalakrats

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Thank you, I will act on that info tomorrow.

Bigdon

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Sorry for my ignorance, what is BIRM?

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I bet Willy was happy! Good luck!

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Hi, Bigdon,

Give me an update on your BAT therapy -- I am considering trying it -- am not on anything but Avadart currently. PSA is .5 -- not sure what to do.

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