Bipolar Androgen therapy starting in ... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Bipolar Androgen therapy starting in January


Hi everyone, I’m pretty new to this site :-) does anybody have any experience with BAT? I was just approved by Hopkins. I have been fighting this disease for 10 years. Gleason score of 4+4. It has been biochemical recurrence without evidence of metastatic disease until two years ago started Zytiga and it is just now stopped working. Any experience with BAT would be helpful. God bless you all!

34 Replies

I have not done BAT, but my docs are at Hopkins, and we discussed ir. I missed the window for it, but what I heard was promising. Good luck with it!

Thank you,I’ll keep this group informed

You might be able to get into the study if you contact Dr. Denmeade MD at Johns Hopkins Hospital. Good luck

You are lucky to get at a wicket with a BAT! Hope you will hammer the Beast with a century!!!

Without fail please keep us posted of the progress. This is the most modern treatment only a few have been privileged to receive. Its power is yet to be proved but certainly there is great hope.

Good luck and all the very best!


wpopomaronis in reply to Sisira

I just had my first injection of testosterone on January 12! I will keep you all informed. My PSA is currently 14. I had expected it to be somewhere around 40 as the Zytiga stopped working however the doubling time has slowed. I can explain why. When I started the Zytiga about a year and a half ago my PSA was 238. During that time, The PSA went down to 0.8.

wpopomaronis in reply to Sisira

Thank you!

I'm 58 and based in London. Having been diagnosed with Metastasis to Lymphs two years ago, I'm on quarterly ADT injections, and thankfully my PSA remains low. I turned down the offer of early chemo, as I wish to avoid.

When my PCa progresses to next stage, and becomes castrate resistant, the current NHS protocol is chemo. I'm obviously hoping for an immunotherapy breakthrough by then, and will consider overseas as self funding, but I'm also tempted to give BAT a try. Seems like the only way is to look at a clinic that offers male HRT - any thoughts?

I am only aware of this study being conducted in Maryland at Johns Hopkins Hospital. I might check the clinical website, sorry!

Hi Paul I have a very similar diagnosis and will also be visiting an immunotherapy therapy clinic in Germany. BAT is also of great interest to me, my oncologist is looking at immunotherapy for me and telling me at what stage I should go for it. I will keep you up to date. 👍

I saw no men respond who are doing BAT---but I know of 2 on this site that have not responded to you. They are doing well. Hopkins results of their last stage test showed a high number of men having a 50% reduction in PSA, with quality of life improvements, from the high T,at 28 day intervals.

I am in discussion now with my Prostate Oncology Group at the Levine Cancer Institute--a lot of prostate medco's are following the Hopkins testing. I will be scheduled to go to Hopkins the first quarter of 18---to discuss adding T or doing BAT---though I am not castrate resistant. This group I am in, has not been tested for the ability of T to be of benefit. It is used with men who have failed a number of treatment modalities, and are castrate resistant.

My question to my Prostate Oncologist, is why not consider men before resistance--he said , that he will set me up at Hopkins, and anything they say as a possibility using T straight up or as in BAT--he would approve, if a Doc. at Hopkins says---take a shot.


I am castrate resistant which is the reason I’m willing to take a chance on this progressive therapy. I’ve talk to them about this prior to becoming castrate resistant and everyone has said to me not to consider it until the Zytiga stops working which it has.

That was the old thinking--which is not too old---Demeade who is running the trials at J. Hopkins, has said on a 2 hour video presentation---what about those who are not yet castrate resistant----is there a T benefit---and we may do some trials on this leg of the journey. I understand, why they may entertain this kind of trial, and the thinking's---which are those with low T before diagnosis, are more likely when getting Pca--to get an agressive form. And 25% of men with low T with good PSA numbers will get Pca, period.

So since all Doctors I know, and I have been studying TRT for years, as I started TRT in 1994---and went till my Diagnosis 2 years ago---all say T does not cause Pca. Having low T is more likely---So if my T was always high did I get Pca from my TRT supplementation. Answer is no----as the general thinking is that even though you have kept your T high, that the body considers itself low T, even though by blood test it is high T, This dichotomy, has not been figured out---with researchers investigating for 20 years, not coin up with a plausible theory.

Read some of pjoshea's writings here on T, BAT, Low T---etc. we are both kind of the non-professional consumers of knowledge on this subject. Notice I did not say Doctors or Experts. I was doing 5-Alpha Reductase drugs, and Aromatase Inhibitors since they were discovered to alter DHT and E2 formation. So I have been aware for 15 years before my Diagnosis, that I was a candidate for Pca, because of my low T. And the day came and it was my turn. I stopped T when I was Diagnosed---but it is under consideration--as all my Docs. think my burden is low now---and with an Undetectable PSA for 22 months--it is time for me to take some action--and not let it get castrate resistant. So we will see what the next 6 weeks will bring---right now lets all enjoy the holidays.


Sounds good!

Please can you let me know how the treatment goes as I’m considering this option myself but it will mean flying to the USA to find a clinic. 👍

Of course

Been on the testosterone treatment protocol for three weeks. My strength has increased significantly in the weight room. But I don’t feel like Superman and I will not have any results from bone or CAT scans until 90 days. That’s the latest :-)

I recently conversed with Ed Friedman about BAT and his views were below. I respect Ed very much, I've always completely concurred with his findings on prostate cancer, ever since reading his book about 4 years ago.


They currently alternate high T with low T During low T, iAR amplifies and

high T then results in a drop in PSA (for ~50% of their patients). They repeat

the cycling of low T, then high T each month, but as the months go by, the

benefit from the high T becomes less and less. Once the benefit is almost

gone, they should be switching to high T plus 5AR inhibitors.

Another protocol which nobody has tried, but which should be effective is high

T plus an iAR inhibitor, such as enzalutamide. In theory, this combination

should be extremely effective in patients who initially received benefits from

BAT, but later not so much.

Thank you for sharing this information. I’ve gone through my first weekend since receiving the testosterone shot. Been exercising twice today and while I have exercised even when I was on a low testosterone regimen, every muscle in my body hurts as if I had an exercise at all. Anyway no real adverse side effects for now :-)

Hi wpop,

What did you do to keep it from being metastatic for 8 years.

I kept my weight down and I exercised. For many years, approximately six years, Lupron kept me in check. And when it failed Two years ago I went on Zytiga. Unfortunately the testosterone study that I have been participating in has failed. My PSA rose in three months from 14 to 91. A recent scan shows the tumor is showing up in my lymph glands. So I am beginning to look at some other trials and trying to take care of myself. God’s will be done!

I am on the same road.

Have you thought about Dr. Kwon? and surgery to remove them or radiation.

How about getting a gene profile for possible immunotherapy.

I am 2 years post surgery -- gleason 8 -- psa currently 0.4

They found 4 of 10 lymph nodes with cancer at time of surgery. psa post surgery was 0.03 All I have done so far is Avadart and supplements. Any advise is appreciated. I have been trying to avoid lupron because that just starts the clock running to crpc.

Did you take Lupron for 8 years?

I took the Lupron for about six years. I am not familiar with Dr. Kwon? I have found that I have a chek2 mutation. I don’t think I can irradiate them because I had salvage radiation eight years ago after the prostatectomy.

search for Dr. Kwon and prostate cancer on youtube.

Do you think I should do pelvic radiation in the blind? Is that what you did?

If you only radiated the prostate bed -- I think you can still radiate the nodes -- especially if they can see them.

Interesting, can you share anything about Dr Kwon? Thank you


I kept my weight down and I exercised. For many years, approximately six years, Lupron kept me in check. And when it failed Two years ago I went on Zytiga. Unfortunately the testosterone study that I have been participating in has failed. My PSA rose in three months from 14 to 91. A recent scan shows the tumor is showing up in my lymph glands. So I am beginning to look at some other trials and trying to take care of myself. God’s will be done!

Do you think I should do radiation to my lymph nodes -- pelvic bed -- or wait till I can see them on pet scan?

Honestly, I would wait till they show up in the lymph nodes. It could be years. Just like me you need to hang around long enough for them to find a cure. We’re getting close :-) good luck to you!

Thanks, -- you should watch the video.. then tell me what you think.

I will👍🏻

Were you on ADT (lupron/firmagon) and taking any chemo (oral or intraveneous) during your Testosterone therapy?

The way I read the BAT protocol those 2 things were part of the protocol.

The reason I am asking is because I just completed 5 cycles of BAT and my scans (bone mets) are saying "stable for the first time in 2 years.

Thanks, Steve

Not taking chemo

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