Bipolar Androgen Therapy

[mynacho]

I read about bipolar therapy giving high doses of testosterone which has good results.Did anybody experience this ?Do you know which hospitals exercise this therapy ?

[Tall_Allen]

FYI:prostatecancer.news/2016/09...

Mostly just at Johns Hopkins. It should not be attempted outside of a clinical trial.

[Ramp7]

There is a trial at Dana Farber my MO stated. One of his patients enrolled.

[Green_Guy]

Interesting. Can you further comment on why certain patients should not engage in BAT?

[Hidden]

Good luck in your quest. I have never done BAT. I have been aware of BAT since 2005. As NAl wrote, they are at least a dozen in this group who use this technique and have since 2005.

If I were considering to venture forth with BAT, I would talk to BAT patients and leading researchers in BAT. You will find these guys in academia. I would not solely rely on the Prostate Cancer Foundation. This is an organization which might do good work; not withstanding that it's founder is a convicted and pardoned felon. Put another way, if I had a business that cleared 18% of total revenue, I would do very well; even after paying for administrative expenses. In comparison, the average retailer also clears about 18% in net.

Good luck and do your homework.

GD

[dhccpa in reply to Hidden]

Didn't follow you on PCF. Any criticisms besides Milken's involvement? I didn't follow the 18 per cent part. Is that related to PCF's financials or something in Milken's past? Thanks.

[Hidden in reply to dhccpa]

This non/profit Foundation spends only 82% of its donations toward its mission.; which means 18% is spent in Administration of the Foundation. Coming from a career with another non-profit which operated at 92% donations to its mission, I find PCF operational expenses high in proceeds toward its mission. While the Foundation may do good work, I find the cost of good work to be below my expectations. I guess another way that I can write this is for each dollar raised for its mission, they keep 18 cents outside of their mission.

Take a look at their Form 990. I looked briefly at 2017:

Revenue, 43.3 M

Grants, 26.7 M (mission)

Operational Expenses, 17.0 M

Operational expenses include 6.3 M in Compensation, 1.7 M in travel, 4.5 M in Conferences, etc.

I applaud the 32 Grants to Research. I just think that they could do better in holding down operational expenses.

[dhccpa in reply to Hidden]

I'll check into that. A quick search revealed the American Cancer Society has a 78/22 ratio. 82/18 sounded pretty good to me for a medical charity, but I'm sure things could always be better.

As for Milken, and I've seen others mention him, his offenses were 35 years ago, and he served his sentence 30 years ago. I believe, with all due respect, that's a non-issue regarding the cred of the PCF, as is Trump's pardon of him (I typically object to at least several pardons that every president has issued).

But I'll scrutinize PCF more closely. I have found their general literature to be very helpful to me as a layperson.

[Cooolone]

Yeah, some MO's aren't too hot on the idea, or anything outside the SOC. It's good to share those that do, for those who are interested. We do have a choice to navigate our path(s) and as long as it's an informed decision, there's nothing wrong with either staying inside boundaries, or stepping outside them. Largely because who sets those boundaries to begin with? I can guarantee it isn't patients themselves!

So it's funny, how those who aren't facing the cliff themselves, ie, the MO's can put a line in the sand you're not supposed to cross. Only because of the unknowns. It's understandable that controls are necessary, but it always creates a question in my mind. If we allow, yet track patient response, in all therapies, wouldn't we serve our own community more by allowing additional protocols to be used? I'm not saying the trials aren't necessary, just that there's the patient and their choice! Who is the medical community to deny the patient who is faced with an incurable disease, what they should or shouldn't do.

And the separation of the classes, where when you have the ability to "pay" your own way, well, you can most certainly do whatever you want, the rest of us, not so much. See: Steve Jobs! Now it didn't work out for him, and his example is a warning to all on how alternative therapy can posses false promises. But it was his choice, and that's my point I guess.

So when does a patient have the upper hand in decisions? Why does the medical community get to establish the bar? I think a StageIV diagnosis should take some of the shackles off and allow a more flexible therapy regimen for patients and allow Oncologist's to get on board. I'm sure any who want it would gladly sign waivers, etc., releasing doctors from Amy liabilities, etc., if that is the main concern.

I put my MO's feet to the fire (so to say) when discussion my choice(s) going forward with the discovery of my stageIV mets. How due to my unique and rare manifestation of "my" cancer, how it was presenting itself inexplicably outside the box, "SHOULD" prescribe that my therapy regimen also travel outside the box. For example, how Keytruda is reserved by FDA approval, for patients who have failed other lines of therapy first. Is weird as it deals with genetic mutation and not necessarily directly with the PCa itself. I disagreed with the fact that I would have to wait until failure or that my cancer progresses, in order to use a drug that has shown efficacy towards my condition (gene mutation) itself. Doesn't make sense at all... Well in my mind, hahaha.

We discussed much, and I could tell he wasn't much comfortable with going outside the box, but when pushed, if he would write scripts off label if I was willing to pay out of pocket for the treatment, he also didn't say no. So we had a stalemate moment and really, it was up to me on what path to choose. And alas, I did chose to use SOC as the results were there for other patients, was clear to see... But I reserved the right to change at any time as we finish she'd our discussion, lol. And I always have this card in my pocket to play (I believe).

So again, it is good to share those doctors who prescribe to allowing a deal of self direction to therapies not necessarily cemented in the SOC protocols.

Just sharing my thoughts...

Best Regards

[Peace-to-you]

Hi, I’m just received my second dose of testosterone (BAT). I responded positively to the first dose dropping PSA from 7 to 3. I am a heavily treated patient and surprised I’m responding

[Hidden]

I started a modified BAT therapy last summer. It's done me very well. My MO is very happy with the results (<0.1 PSA on low T phases). She sees my labs and tells me to keep doing what I am doing.

I have a free book at drive.google.com/drive/fold...

In it are details of my history and the BAT program that I follow. If it fails I have a backup plan. If that fails I have another.

[Drmaciej in reply to Hidden]

great book!