I recently had a conversation with someone who believed that people with ADHD were inherently selfish and that no matter how hard they try they will always be that way.
All the books and articles seem to agree that ADHDers are just unable to put someone else first (in marriage, for example) or to put themselves in someone else’s shoes.
👉🏻 What do you think? Are people with ADHD inherently selfISH or is it possible for them to become selfLESS?
☀️
Hi,
I think that whenever you believe something is impossible because of ADHD, you have accepted defeat before you start. It may be important to understand that empathy is more difficult for you, but is a skill that can be practiced and improved on, just like any other - even if it doesn’t come naturally. You have to be willing to put in the effort, though, and that’s another behavior that doesn’t always come naturally.
Agreed! I also believe empathy is a skill we can learn. Thanks for sharing!
Hi iWasSunshine,
I'm not sure the books you are reading are written by those who 'understand' the basic mechanism of ADHD. ADHD is a neuro-chemical condition, that is triggered at millisecond speeds - and without treatment there's very little chance of 'us' putting the brakes on before we say/do something that a non-ADHD person would interpret as 'selfish'. 99% or more of these behaviours are not intentional - we don't go out there with the intention of annoying people.
When I say 'us', I mean the part of our character that after we've done something, knows it was insensitive/lazy/arrogant/selfish - but was not fast enough to overcome the neuro-chemical reaction. I think the experts call this our 'executive-function'. I say to people who think I'm doing these things 'on purpose', that nothing could be further from the truth, we ADHD'ers do not do it on purpose.
It's all about that most basic of advice in life - think before you speak - we just have to get there before our neuro-chemicals do....and with treatment/therapy eventually we can.
Try reading Delivered from Distraction by Edward Hallowell and John Ratey, both with 30+ years in studying/treating ADHD, Hallowell has ADHD and a number of his kids also.
Wishing you all the best,
Mark
Thanks, Mark 😊
I actually have Delivered from Distraction on audio book and have listened to the first half of it a couple times now (is anyone surprised that I haven’t made it to the end?? 🤣)
I’ve tried many times to explain to this person that very thing- that it’s NOT intentional- but to no avail. Hopefully I’ll get through at some point!
I completely understand why someone would think this of a person with ADHD. What I have found in my own personal experience is that I am not wired to think of others before myself. It is not an intentional act for me to NOT to think of someone before me. Its actually the opposite, I am intentionally thinking how to process the situation, the actions of someone, the words that someone spoke, the scenario, and so on; also while trying to maintain a sense of normalcy on the outside that people see. This is completely overwhelming and a constant state in which I am in. So with that said...yes I am self-centered. But like member 406M posted earlier, I can accept defeat and never try and be a better version of myself or I can BE a better version of myself by practicing what that looks like. This involves an extreme sense of self awareness at all times. I am constantly gauging my own emotions and checking them before acting or reacting. I am not perfect at this but have become more "normal" with time. When I make a mistake I own up to it and learn from the experience.
I think I overcompensate for feeling selfish by people pleasing. It's gotten better as I've gotten into my 30s but I think that this person's theory is pretty callous for one and lacking perspective for another. You can't generalize like that.
I relate. My experiences have taught me to be aware of my co-dependency (leading to a neglect of self).
Honestly I often feel that my purpose in life is to put others above and beyond -- that I am selfish if I even dare to think I have a right to be heard too. And... at the same time I can become resentful, which is really my fault, because I lack the ability to set healthy boundaries for myself and others due to my idea of what "a selfless" person ought to be.
Do you ever feel that?
Actually I’ve lost myself doing to much people pleasing in my relationships.
Totally resonate with you. If you feel inclined, take a look at the post I responded to "blackindiaink"'s comment.
Any similarities there?
I can only speak for myself, but my personality is that of a giver and nurturer. I have even been in an abusive relationship because I didn’t put myself first until it got really scary. I do understand that people can misinterpret me trying to meet my basic need for down/alone time as self-centered, but I have to recharge to be able to continue giving. so misinterpreted as cavalier or self-centered is being late for, or missing, events with other people. I have a friend who refuses to see the validity of my issues with time, names that my brain doesn’t perceive time the way theirs does and I just cannot, physically, neurologically, be consistently on time.
These are daily struggles of ADHD and certainly don’t make me selfish. In my opinion.
I think your friend does not comprehend the various facets of being ADHD..There was a time that I would go to what would be perceived happy family events such as weddings. And all of sudden they would show a montage of family get together of those family members who were live and my grandparents who had passed away. I would become totally hysterical and could not control my sobbing. I did not gain any joy from this and received angry remarks from some relatives who did not know what I was going thru. Truth be known, not until I became involved with this group, did I realize what this was. Fortunately,
these kind of incidents have dissipated to a great extent. This was not selfishness on my part. I'm happy that your friend does not have ADD/ADHD. In fact, though I adore children, because of the pain and heartache I have suffered at times, I chose at a certain point not to have children because I would not someone who was so dear and precious to me to go thru some the hellacious things that I have had to endure. If I met a great guy, I would be a
great step-granny but that's for whole other discussion
I do not hold to any idea that people with ADHD are inherently selfish. I do see (as your friend shows) that people misunderstand us as such. But when I've done the emotional digging and the research on ADHD what I've found isn't a selfishness problem so much as a literal neurological condition in which it is hard for us to regulate our attention. Selfishness to me is not caring about anyone but oneself. ADHD is not about "not caring". For that matter, I feel with a perspective like that one might as well say that of people with depression or bipolar disorder. After all, bipolar sufferers can and do ruin facets of their and loved ones' lives if they are in a full manic swing. Depressives can't seem to get interested in others' needs. But the truth is that no one with these conditions is inherently selfish. When bipolar people recover from mania they are often traumatized and damaged by what they've done. Selfishness is not what they went through. It was an unregulated emotional experience that without active management and support WILL overwhelm any good intentions, empathy, and compassion the person possesses. I'm sure your friend is just making a judgment call based off of their experience but they are not right. ADHDers are some of the most selfless people I've met. Selfishness is something we all possess (neurotypical or otherwise) but I believe we should dig into the emotions and intentions behind the behavior. Did I not do the chore my spouse asked because I was truly making a selfish decision? Or was it to avoid the immense emotional wall of awful I was facing with it? Or maybe did I just need more time to do the emotional work of climbing said wall? Was my intention purely "I hate doing this chore"? Sometimes the answer is yes (and for neurotypical folks this is no less the case). But where neurotypical folks have the ability to "just get it done" us ADHDers will feel that pain to an extent it can feel like torture. It doesn't mean we can't do it, but we have to use workarounds and tools to get there that neurotypical folks won't need. Selfishness is not that. Selfishness would be someone understanding the challenges they face and blaming it on their condition so they don't have to work. So, to you sunshine and all of us ADHDers, we need to stop ascribing judgements like "selfish" to behaviors effected by a brain with executive system dysfunction. The way I would explain it to your friend is this: We are not selfish any more than any other person with a mental disorder is. Selfish is one of the several damaging things we are called until we internalize it and then no matter how selfless we are, we won't see it. No one with compassion would call a Major Depressive selfish so why is it okay to do so with ADHD? We are subject to strong impulses, flying thoughts, poor working memory, emotional dysregulation and a brain that doesn't want to cooperate with our good intentions. In fact, due to our history of rejection from our behavior we are even less focused on ourselves than others because we learned what others thought of us early on. I, for one, have spent years focused on trying to keep people happy to the detriment of my own welfare. I recommend you look into what ADHD actually is rather than your own experience of it.
WindowtotheStars, thanks for your thoughts!
I’ve actually brought up that comparison to this person before (what if I had _______? Would you still consider me to be selfish or is it a byproduct of the disorder?) and the first time I did it worked. It seemed like they understood, but it looks like maybe they didn’t take it to heart...? 🤷♀️
I can relate to being a people pleaser though- that’s how I’ve been my whole life. When I was a kid (I’m one of 10 kids,) I was the “second mom” and was constantly giving of myself, so when this person says I’m selfish it hurts because I know it’s not always true. (We’re human, so sometimes I *do* act out of selfishness, but that’s rare.)
That is unfortunate they didn't consider/accept your words. Sometimes people refuse to change their viewpoint no matter the evidence to the contrary. Yay, cognitive dissonance. Well, you have my and others' opinion and they're pretty backed up by evidence. And you tried to reach this person. One can always keep trying but I would definitely pose this question: is this person's perspective hurting you? I've told several close family and friends. Some family have reacted similarly, unwilling to open their minds (strange that they call us inherently selfish yet they are unwilling to put themselves in our shoes) and for me, I used to take it deep to heart. Which meant invalidating my experiences and feelings. Ouch. Now, though, if someone pulls the same thing I will try to separate myself from that person more for my own emotional well-being. There comes a point to me where I've explained and given evidence without any consideration that I have to appraise that relationship and make sure I'm not too invested in what they think. Which, if I've been trying hard to change their mind, requires me to look inward as well. Why is their opinion effecting me so much? Sometimes the answer may be that I had previously been overconfident in the validity of their perspective. Sometimes codependency or sometimes it could be quite simply that I hate the idea of this person going through life possibly hurting others with their opinion. Best of luck to you and your friend, though. I appreciate this topic because it allowed some processing of my own emotional baggage from a lifetime of being told I'm selfish and inconsiderate. 🙂
WOW. ADHD is ADHD and I'm not convinced that it means selfish. I have ADHD and sometimes I AM selfish, or inconsiderate and sometimes I am fine putting myself last. I"m constantly trying to do what's best for my wife and kids - accompanied by failure to "see" things that i should be doing or remembering etc.
SO...are "we" selfish -yes we can be...are we caring - yes we can care and try to treat others kindly... and we can be cruel hurtful nasty so-and-sos, ....I think we are imperfect beings - just like every body else - but with a twist LOL - F the labels
Ahh, “... Imperfect beings - just like everybody else - but with a twist”!! LOVE THAT!!
I would say that people of all minds are inherently selfish, especially in our latest culture. You have to beware that someone you may have accidentally offended, which happens a lot with ADHD, may being trying to manipulate you to feel shame and that you do not have a leg to stand on in an argument about their feelings because you are different. If it is someone you really care about and want in your life, it is their responsibility to be just as compassionate and empathetic as they want you to be and read about what our ADHD diagnosis means for us, and thusly for them. But I like to remind people of this parallel which most people aren't aware of it being a parallel... If you tell someone your child has autism, their reaction is usually to give the child a free pass and "label" as different and damned to be so. But this isn't right. Autism and ADHD and many mental health disorders a like don't need people isolated from "normality." It simply needs to be understood and the work we can do as ADHDers can be met in the middle by patience and understanding by those who truly love and want to understand us.
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