so initially 4 hrs ago she has been diagnosed with severe anxiety and depression. Was on several medication then didn’t want to take it. As she turn adult she would like to decide on her own. Get regular panic attacks when things are falling apart like college transfer from community to regular college will not happen.
At home even after 6 yr of family therapy seems like we are still not able to understand from her point of view ex you guys are the only support but no one takes care of medication or food, if we ask then why you are asking me ask this way or that way, even we follow still not enough.
don’t know how to provide her support with correct medical support ( because she decide to select her own) who prescribed addrell or family support that she needs.
Please parents or who can help any advice will be hugely appreciated.
Ps just joined this forum today.
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Cmittal
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see if she would agree to get a full neuropsychological evaluation done with a psychologist. She might have a different diagnosis.
What medication is she on? Many of antidepressants and also meds for ADHD can rarely have a side effect of actually making people feeling suicidal. For example my son is on Atomoxetine and each review his ADHD specialist nurse practitioner asks him questions ‘Do you ever think of killing yourself?’ He is only just 10 now and first it sounded so serious when she asked him this but I understand they need to do it.
I’d say if she is on Atomoxetine then ask to swap to other non stimulant such as Qelbree or Guanfacine or Kapvay (I think it’s Clonidine but extended release).
Also if she is let’s say on more than 1 medication it’s difficult to know which medication causes her to feel suicidal and depressed.
Also stimulant ADHD medication very often has a side effect of making anxiety worse or even in people who didn’t suffer from anxiety, stimulants can have a side effect of causing anxiety. Also the fact that with stimulants they have to come out of the system every day, this can also cause depression as it affects neurotransmitters.
Also it’s winter- maybe she has a seasonal affective disorder?
It is really really hard to understand why our kids act the way they do. She’s pushing you away but she clearly also needs help. I agree with the poster who suggested a neuropsych evaluation - also, has she been tested for autism? Girls and women can be very good at masking autism symptoms - but inside they are suffering. Even if she’s not choosing to go, does she have access to a psychiatrist who could make sure she’s on the right medication? Are you able to talk to a therapist for yourself? Sometimes helping yourself is the best first step. Other than that I would suggest focusing on the positive parts of your relationship and showing lots of love even if she’s pushing you away. Remind her of the things she’s good at. Be a broken record about self care and seeing the right doctors but don’t get into arguments about it. If you model taking care of yourself, maybe that will get through to her.
I can certainly emphasize with your situation.....I have an ADHD son who is now 28 and doing very well, but I can tell you that ADHD young adults are very different from their "normal" peers. First of all, realize she's developmentally about 16 - not 19. Our kids don't really become "adults" until at least age 25-26. So prepare yourself for a few more years of ups and downs. I'd give up the therapy idea - she's not going be really be able to act on the suggestions right now. I'd focus more on just getting her to support herself. If she's failing college, stop for now. We spent SO much money trying to our son through and he is still 4 credits short! I think he may finish this year, but now it's on him! Have her get a job and pay for her phone or gas. Don't kick her out - this will not accomplish anything. You can't make her take her ADHD meds, so stop trying. In fact, I'd stop having long intense conversations - they don't listen anyway! She will be immature and argumentative for a few more years - and you can't change it - her brain is just not fully cooked yet!
If she really is suicidal - that's serious and she needs to be taken to the ER and admitted. But it seems like many of these ADHD young adults are very unhappy for years - and don't know how to get themselves going.
Let me know if you want to chat more!! I hope this helps - it's definitely a marathon and not a sprint!
I agree with mtammy as a person with ADHD if you find the right amount of the right medicine you can feel awesome, I have been on the same medicine for my whole life (13 years), everyday I took meds that made so tired I couldn't think strait, but they also made it were I could not sleep until it wore off and just recently my doctor changed my prescription, first one, I got super tired if I didn't move enough (not good if you are in a classroom for an hour not moving) and it caused weak headaches to become severe plus if anything hit my head it caused me a headache, but at least I could sleep, second one was the right meds but to high of a dose, I did not sleep of 36 hours (I live out in the country and it was in the fall, so we had to carry in wood), now it is right and I have never felt better. tell if she finds the right meds she will feel awesome. also when was she diagnosed with ADHD, living with undiagnosed ADHD for to long can cause depression.
also so I just remembered, but ADHD causes depression because ADHD causes low level of dopamine. so stimulants in the teenage years can help the brain to develop faster for people with ADHD, that also helps with depression.
Going through something similar with my 18 year old grandson who has decided to stop taking meds. He moved in with a friend in another city so I don't see him much. He says he is great but I see flare ups of anger that he had under control for so many years.
Just praying he stays somewhat stable and letting him know I am here for him.
Not much you can do about an adult. They don't like being told what to do.
My 17yo daughter has had real difficulty this past 6 months with increasingly erratic emotions, rage fits, meltdowns and self harm. She expressed thoughts of suicide and was very pessimistic about the world and we never heard her laugh. Things got really bad shortly after Christmas and we made the decision to take her off the ADHD medication (Vyvanse) she was on which put a stop to the emotional turmoil within a week.
Last week we saw a Functional Medicine doctor who believes that due to some nutritional deficiencies - she was low in B3, B6, B12, Iron, Vitamin C , Magnesium and Zinc - she was had unusually high adrenaline levels and some issues with undermethylation.
This meant that whenever something stressful happened she tipped over into a full panic and fight/flight response. This tracked for us because her response to what we thought of as relatively minor and normal daily stresses was way over the top and could derail her (and our whole family) for days.
The Dr was great and explained that most people operate with a much lower level of "normal stress" and are able to increase their stress hormones, like adrenaline, to respond to stress and crisis. Because her levels of internal stress where so high the smallest thing would completely overwhelm her.
The stimulant medication did NOT help her respond to stress appropriately nor return to a normal level of stress after an event which is why things improved somewhat once if was stopped.
(NOTE: I am not against medication for ADHD - it simply wasn't helping the situation for my daughter - she may return to medication once the other issues are resolved)
The Dr also explained that people with ADHD are susceptible to nutritional deficiency because they can forget to eat, or be very picky with which foods they can eat, leaving them with increasing levels of nutritional deficiencies that build up over time.
The biggest thing the Dr explained though is that this wasn't another thing "wrong" with her, it was just like a car running on poor quality fuel won't work well but with the right fuel the engine will hum along.
She is currently taking prescribed supplements to resolve her nutritional deficiencies and help her bring her adrenaline/internal stress levels down to a more "normal" level, similar to what other people would experience.
It's only been a few days but already I can see a lightness to her interactions with us that we haven't seen in several years and her laugh as returned - and it is beautiful!
Time will tell if this makes a significant difference to how she feels within herself and her ability to cope with the normal stresses of everyday life, but already her laugh has returned and it is beautiful!
I would highly recommend investigating Functional or Integrative medicine as a support for your daughter, to ensure that there are no nutritional issues contributing to her current level of wellbeing.
First, get educated as best you can. I was brought up on, shall we say, less than helpful ideas about mental health. Look for principles of recovery, read or listen to material by Patricia Deegan or Sheri Mead, look at the guidelines for recovery oriented practice by the mental health commission of Canada. Pat Deegan has an article called "the trouble with compliance" that might help you better understand their resistance to medication.
Watch some recovery stories and/or encourage your child to do so.
Encourage your child to connect with good people. I resisted peer support for years because I thought "I'm not one of THOSE people", which shows just how bad stigma can be. Try to do some research to find peer support groups in your area, or positive online ones.
Find support for yourself as well. It's good that you are here, and there may be more specific supports for family members in your area.
If you're in Canada, see if you can find mental health first aid or assist training. Other countries have similar programs.
Ultimately your child needs to find their own path to recovery. Your role is to be there to communicate, help with problem solving and act as a resource (e.g. finding a resource or piece of info they're looking for) The key thing is, as much as possible, put them in the driver's seat. They will know best what they're ready for, what will and won't help, and they won't always be willing or able to explain it to you.
When it comes to meds, there's a frustrating amount of trial and error, and the best meds won't fix everything, just like the best climbing equipment won't carry someone up the mountain. And with ADHD, often the first line treatments for mood disorders are... less than helpful.
Recovery is non-linear, which I used to think of as meaning a lot of forward and back. Really, though, that's still thinking linear. What it really means is that there are many directions your child will take, and each are part of the journey. Just like climbing a mountain, the obvious path might turn out to be a dead end, and the path that looks like it's in the wrong direction may be the quickest route to the top. And there are times where you need to stop to rest, take stock, plan and review.
Also, no matter how they are now, recovery is possible. I've known people who were on a first name basis with emergency department staff for years who now have a great and happy life. Your child can recover, and while I wouldn't wish what I've been through on my worst enemy, I'm a much better person because of that, and I'd like to think I'm a better husband and father.
Hello Cmittal, I am so sorry to read of your family and Daughters struggles! My children are still young enough to not yet face these with them, though I am aware its a possible future to prepare for. Firstly, others advice here has been,in my opinion, helpful and useful so I would support their views. This is a good community with alot of sound "non-woo woo" advice. I am equally sorry you are based in the US. I know little of your healthcare system, but enough to know I am supremely grateful for the NHS, despite its multitude of shortfalls and fails (a political debate for another time!) I was diagnosed at 45yo, after an "episode" of mental health difficulties that I have still not entirely escaped from. As a health professional what I do know is your daughters reactions of "defiance", "I can do this myself", "stop controlling me!", "I dont need help" and extreme emotional lability (leading to suicidal thoughts, poor self care/eating habits and the like) are not only "normal" for her developemental stage, but there is a global rise in the intensity of such experiences after the pandemic. Youth mental wellbeing has suffered immensley and more and more young people are struggling with severe issues than ever before.
Approaching from a "risk" perspective, the suicidal ideation is a huge concern, combine this with ADHD and the usual "impulsivity" of the adolescent brain and the recipe does not make chocolate cookies. I have been to the edge and viewed the void, it is deep and beckoning, I was fortunate.
All behaviour is communication, not always appropriate methods but always communicating an unmet need or unheard voice. In order to "see from her perspective" I would advise two things, firstly, find a space where you can sit with her and connect, then be 100% honest with your concerns (I am sure this is not easy and you already try to do this with varying success, I dont intend to patronise you in any way). Try to present your worries as if you were doing so to a medical professional, be succinct, but dont minimise or simplify anything unless absolutely neccessary. Be the one seeking her advice.
Secondly, suspend everything you know, think you know,have heard, have experienced, have an opinion of. Dont speak, answer, judge, contradict, coerce or even agree with her, just listen to her response. Again, I am sure this is something you have been trying already but from my experience, it is very difficult to do with those we are emotionally attached to as we are always "triggered" by something said, its unfair,it wasnt meant that way,dont be dramatic, thats no way to talk to me/us, how can you think that way? Thats just a lie! Your so ungrateful, you just dont get it! I have tried SO hard to......(insert effort here!), I have sacrificed (insert lamb here) for you! I am sure there are many more "nice"feelings that can be shared, but inhale deep, cry quietly, breath.Conflict is kind of inevitable, but if you can remove your part in it and hold your "Zen" you may be able to learn a huge amount from her and her thinking. It will be painfull, triggering, you are bound to feel like an awful parent afterwards and all of that really sucks! But, it is also "Yours" not hers, (which also sucks, my goodness I feel for you guys!) so try not to share it with her or deflect it at her, take a thorough beating including the kicks to the soft bits,the eye gouging, the fingernail ripping, the works. It will be worth it. When she sits back covered in your emotional blood, exhausted, tell her its OK and you love her anyway. (You dont have to "like" her at this point!)
I am alao sure you have done this at some point as you have been in family therapy, but her rollercoaster of growth means her perspective will undoubtably have shifted.
She needs that above all else.... I apologise in advance if this offends you in anyway,or if you feel patronised, like I am "telling you how to parent" or the like, it is not intended that way I assure you. I just know the most common experience of children with difficulties is the feeling they are not listened to and they are not "heard", and this can be root of so many problems.
Big love to you and your family 💙This only my opinion/experience/things I have learned, random, free thoughts to read and consider one way or another. I wish you all the very best.
As an after thought, have you reccomended this forum to your daughter? She may find connection and supportive community amongst peers here?,
This is great advice that I needed to hear. You're right though, it's really hard. These are the conversations I am trying to have with my daughter -- but my internal reactions are exactly as you say.
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