it is me again! It has been a while guys. I've written before about how the teen years have thrown my entire family out of sorts. My son has been on Concerta since 2nd grade, but it stopped having any impact in 8th grade. He would not do his work and increasingly became more and more defiant. He was treated by a pediatrician. I felt that his pediatrician could not offer insights that a psychiatrist could, so we did that. He changed us to Adderall but offered no more assistance than med management. In fact, the psychiatrist labeled him as ODD but failed to even mention that to me. I just happened to read it on his chart. Never offered any assistance to address that. It helped in class, but he has never returned to the student he once was as far as motivation to complete in-class assignments. He requested to stop taking Adderall about 4 weeks ago after I confronted him about finding random pills in his room. He says he doesn't want to take a pill to be "normal." I've had a discussion with him about diabetics taking their medication, but anything I say to him about any subject whatsoever, he disagrees. He adamantly tells me what he will and will not do. I have taken advice learned from ADHD dude, try to avoid the argument vortex, and enforced consequences. He currently doesn't have access to any electronics and is not allowed to go anywhere, yet he still doesn't comply. The really horrible thing is that he will follow me around and fuss at me for hours. It is driving me crazy. I really feel I may have a stroke. I have made another appointment for him to re-evaluate his meds.
These are my questions:
1. How do you reason with a half-grown boy about taking his meds? I tried to make him take them this morning, and he would not. I have nothing else to restrict him from.
2. When we found the right dose of Concerta, it worked wonders. We still had issues with organization etc, but he was so much more easygoing and not as argumentative. Initially, he was on 36 Concerta in 5th grade and became really emotional, crying, etc at the end of the day. We dropped down to 27 mg and it was like a different child. We never tried going back up to 36 before switching to the Adderall. Should I ask the doctor to try a higher dose of Concerta since we had such good results before?
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spookyscaryskeletons
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I can only talk as someone who has grown up taking medication for ADHD. So my views are my own....
But I feel, every person growing up with it has a period when they look at themselves? I guess all humans do growing up?
I feel and again personally, this is even more the case when you've spent years on something? So you can't remember what things were like before.
It is such a strange thing talking a pill for something which is so complex and confusing as ADHD.
Things like social media doesn't help and neither does the public perception of ADHD. Again, I feel the name is completely wrong.
What helped me understand and to start taking medication again was to understand what adult ADHD is? What are superpowers are an our struggles and to be able to attribute it to ADHD.
Then from there, I knew what would help and I knew what I was good at!
This wasn't around as it has been recently released but there is an amazing book. Even better on audible called ADHD A-Z it is written for an adult with ADHD. Again something important as I again thought it was for kids.
Not much help, but your not alone and neither is he.
I appreciate your response! I can definitely relate to self-reflection as an adult. I do that often as I navigate my son's teenage years, and as I continue to wade through adulthood myself. We are all defiant at some point but hopefully not at every small request that has natural consequences, classroom and homework participation, and outright disrespect. There is a time and place for those things and we have to learn if it is worth the consequences and disruption. Any type of emotional regulation is out the window at this point and it lasts for at least 45 minutes, often longer. This started after stopping his meds, so I see a correlation. I hope that he will grow into an adult that also reflects on his life and sees his super powers. I absolutely know his super powers, but at this point, I am just trying to get him to adulthood with everyone in one piece. I would like to see him not flunk out of school as well. Teenage years are so weird.
They are weird and can feel your frustration. I really can.
Teaching high school students, I've seen it first hand.
Again, only my person opinion, but it could be worth giving him the tools to understand what ADHD actually is and then hopefully upon that reflection he will understand why medication is beneficial but also other control measures to help.
Thank you! We have tried it and still trying it. He has a therapist that is also on board with helping as well as teaching skills and strategies to address some areas that need improvement. He is just not interested in any of that at this time and outright refuses to compromise or attempt it. And at this point, I just need for him to not rage out over a homework request. I know when I share this with his doctor, he will tell me it usually gets better. I need some concrete solutions or at least a plan, not hope for the future lol. That is why I am asking those particular questions in my original post so I can go to my doctor armed with some information and request what I need to to help my son. I appreciate you letting me vent. it is hard to sit back and watch this spiral out of control, but I dont really know how to handle it.
Don't worry it is all good, rant away! ADHD is a complex beast. It's hard.
I understand the challenge, because of course you need to discipline the bad behavior and as you said much of this is probably down to him no longer taking his medication.
Have you discussed how it makes you feel? Not anger etc. But how it emotionally upsets you.
Again, I have said this in other posts and also heard other people say it. Anger etc. I don't respond to, I can't read it. It just makes me worse as I do not know how to respond.
But when someone spells out, how it has made them feel emotionally, I.e. This has really upset and has made me feel.... It helps me understand it and begin to reflect.
Another thing, I feel with ADHD things in your head spin at 1,000MPH, with much more being added into it. There are points when you can't take anymore, somewhat of a sensory overload. Again, during my a-levels (British) I found this ever so challenging, due to all the pressure coming around alongside questions from home and school. The only way I could process it was going bang! But when I could slow it down, calm space... Really cool light thing which shines on my ceiling and audio books, I could slow myself down and come back onto planet earth.
Touching on your medicine question, I've been around the houses like it sounds like your son has. Like him I was on concerta and then came off it etc. What my doc worked out, is if I took 2x 27mg (again similar response when I was on higher) it helped. I dont take them both at the same time. One in the morning and then at around 10am the 2nd, so it builds the body up slowly and also avoids the crashes which frankly make you feel really bad..
I have a 13-yr-old, not a 15-yr-old, but am already seeing huge shifts with hormonal changes as he enters the teenage years. The two things I rely on (in addition to the 4mg of Guanfacine that he takes in the mornings) are neurofeedback every other day and Hardy’s micronutrients. Both help tremendously with mood control and self regulation. I bought an neurofeedback machine, which was incredibly expensive but well worth the investment for us. I also try to spend time each day in his world (he is interested in Magic the Gathering & Dungeons & Dragons). I don’t understand any of it but I try to at least ask questions. I learned the hard way that discipline is ineffective without corresponding effort & sheer time bonding. All of it is very challenging & I wish you a lot of support & capacity to resource yourself.
I have never read about a neurofeedback machine so I will absolutely research that. Merrick tried Guanfacine several years ago when we started having issues with the Concerta, but it made him incredibly sleepy, even when taken at night. Did you go through this with your son and did it even out? I am wondering if merrick would be open to a non stimulant compromise. Thank you so much for sharing some tips.
My wife was telling me about a study involving adhd meds and children, where it was discovered that certain stimulants given to children increased permanent brain white matter growth. This is not observed in adults under the same circumstances.
I wont post a link to any specific study, but looking up “adhd meds increase white matter growth in children” should give you a whole slew of links to review. Perhaps you could mention this study to him since it is showing a potential positive outcome of taking adhd meds that is not something that is easily seen or quantified.
Also regarding arguing, I leave the room/floor or even the house when my 9 year old starts arguing. I have found when there is no audience it tends to shorten their rage a bit sooner.
Have you given him an option to swap to a non stimulant ADHD medication? Might be that he has tried it and it wasn’t agreeing with him? But let’s say Qelbree is quite new on the market…
All I am thinking, at this age many boys want to do gym and eat and grow muscles and stimulants won’t help with that. It might be that he feels a bit embarrassed to talk about it with you?
It might be that he does want to try for a while to be off medications to see for himself how he is without meds? Maybe suggest to him that he could do it over the summer holidays?
My son is nearly 10 and he happily takes his non stimulant Atomoxetine. He doesn’t have much insight but the day we swapped him from stimulant to non stimulant he said to my husband ‘Daddy I like this medication because it makes me enjoy my food again’. So he knew that stimulants were causing his aversion to food. I give him Cyproheptadine though to help him with functional nausea etc (he used to have it even before meds but now he just doesn’t have any of these gastro symptoms at all and I think this is thanks to Cyproheptadine ).
My son is under paediatric psychiatrist and when we were swapping meds doctor said that Atomoxetine is good where ADHD has also oppositional behaviour presentation and that’s how my son was with me. I’d say he is now definitely less oppositional and also his mood is better and he stopped having anxiety.
Have you touched base with your son about his mood, maybe it’s something to do with some hormonal changes and low mood? And that’s why he stopped taking meds?
My heart goes out to you, your son and family. As a mom of 2 neurodiverse boys, with ADHD myself and a huge family (many of them with ADHD). I feel confidently that you will all “survive” this rough patch. I do hope you can get to a place where you can rest and thrive.
From my experience the right medication makes many life tasks easier. Also, teenagers want to be treated and respected like adults but obviously need the continued support of a parent.
The fact that your son is talking and verbalizing his feelings to you is a good thing. Rather than follow you about the house try scheduling 3 blocks of time with him daily: morning (short session), after school and evening. Sit down face to face with a notebook and write down all his feelings for him as he shares them with you. It may simply be that he gives you a number or color rating on how he’s feeling that moment.
This may confirm for him concretely that you hear him and are helping him organize his thoughts and feelings. During this listening and dictation time with the notebook you can tell him you will not weigh in unless he asks you to.
The hope is that after a week or so of this he will run out of steam, start to realize he’s repeating himself. Then you can begin to ask him what are some patterns he’s noticing, then, what are some solutions he has in mind. No answer is fine, but ask occasionally. He may express fears, hopes that you can build on and help him subtly figure out the multiple, small steps he needs to take to realize those goals or avoid those feared outcomes. Be open minded, he may have good solutions you are not thinking of.
You can show him how to create pros and cons lists, idea flow charts etc to visualize his options, outcomes etc.
You ultimately want him to feel this is all his idea and self motivate to achieve his goals. Slowly, in time he will be able to recognize you are his ally.
if he’s up to it, I’d see if upping the concerta would help. When my son initially went on adderall it was too high a dose so we went down but over the years we have increased it almost every year. It’s like all of a sudden it just doesn’t work and they need a smidge more to help them. But, it sounds like he might not agree to trying that. 13 is HARD. with any teenager. They really like to argue and repeat. I feel for you, my son actually tells me now that I’ll prob get an ulcer from dealing with him all these years. He’s 14.
It sounds like you are trying very hard to help your son and your family. I’m sorry it’s so hard. I know hearing things will get better doesn’t really help when you’re in the thick of it, but it does. 12-13 was VERY hard for us too. Good luck 😊
Lots of empathy for you. Great advice above, especially about creating a bond with your son. It’s possible he feels he’s not a part of the process. He’s not a little kid anymore and may feel as though he’s being treated like one.
Maybe first ask him what he hates about Adderall. My college son hates how Adderall makes him feels so he switched to Vyvanse. Perhaps if you son feels more in control of the process, you will get more buy in from him.
And second, let him visit a couple of psychiatrists and see which one he would like to work with (if he doesn’t care for the current one). This has been key for my son. He really likes his psychiatrist because he can talk soccer with him which may seem a waste of time but it creates trust and they work great together.
Also, as kids grow, what worked when they were younger may not work as they age. This is common.
Lastly, psychiatrists generally only do medication management and not therapy so this may be part of your frustration.
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