Trying to Learn about ADHD & ODD

[Mommatryingtolearn]

Hello.

I have done my fair share of internet reading, blogs, forums, articles you name it. I even went to school and took courses for Child & Youth Work. My daughter is 6 years old. Obviously this pandemic has not been so easy for her, as she has ADHD and ODD. Her aggression has been getting out of hand. I understand a lot has happened the last few months. The world partially shut down, she cannot visit friends, she is having a hard time burning off the energy her body is producing, and to top it off we just had a baby two months ago. This limits our ability to do a lot of things.

What we have been doing is:

-Splash pad (A LOT), Run around in the field across the road, visits to Gigi & Papas, Buying every board game off the shelf, buying strategy games, finding indoor activities, dance parties.. Really you name it. I even bought a trampoline for the inside of the house.

Her aggression is still increasing, and I feel the more we do for her and with her the more it flares up. She started hitting, smashing things, asking if we "are sad" or if we "are crying" because this seems to make her happy if she hurts our feelings. She has never hit her sister, but she will scream around her constantly. I started her on medication a week and half ago, but it does not seem to be working. I am beginning to worry. Her fits can last hours. The longest one lasted 5 hours straight. She will act as if she has calmed down & the instant she is out of "time out" she will just go off again. Nothing I seem to do is working. I am exhausted, and my temper is slowly fading. My husband works till 3 each day.

Any advice would help. Please & Thank You.

From One Mama just trying her best to learn.

[Hidden]

What medication is she on?

[Mommatryingtolearn in reply to Hidden]

Biphentin 20 Mg, Her doctor wants to increase to 30 Mg starting tomorrow.

[Hidden in reply to Mommatryingtolearn]

I had to stop stimulants completely for my son after we saw his aggression increase on them. We are now on a non-stimulant path, Intuniv.

[Mommatryingtolearn in reply to Hidden]

Have you noticed an improvement since?

[Hidden in reply to Mommatryingtolearn]

We are only on day 4, but my son has ceased the excessive aggression that I saw on the stimulant. I think I also notice he’s taking discipline slightly better without freaking out when he’s corrected.

[Onthemove1971 in reply to Mommatryingtolearn]

When the medication is the correct type, dose and timing you will know and most of the symptoms will go away but their core personality will stay.

I assume from your post you are dealing with a pediatrician?

It is my recommendation you consult with a psychiatrist, they specialize in know how to give children proper medications. For some children it helps most to have a medication for decreasing the impulses and another to help with focus and behavior.

Our son is almost 14 years old and it was not until we started with a psychiatrist that we really saw change for the best with our son. We are also doing on going therapy.

[Mommatryingtolearn in reply to Onthemove1971]

I just started googling psychiatrists in the area. A lot of them are not covered where I live and are quite pricey

[DC516 in reply to Onthemove1971]

Yup. We’re working the stimulant angle first to reduce the impulses. Then we might go with Intuniv to help with the irritation and anger. One baby step at a time.

[Onthemove1971 in reply to DC516]

Great that is what our son is on. It's the magic for us.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

It was just the first thought I had when you said doctor wants to keep increasing the stimulant. There are other options out there if you think the stimulant is contributing to the ODD.

[Mommatryingtolearn in reply to Hidden]

I sent her doctor an email earlier asking about other medications, or other tests such as blood tests, and hormone testing in hopes there can be more to pin point the anger

[Hidden in reply to Mommatryingtolearn]

Unfortunately I read that ADHD and ODD can be very common together.

[Mommatryingtolearn in reply to Hidden]

yes she has been diagnosed with both. But with the pandemic a lot of our doctor visits have been video calls where we live. So any testing I can get done I am game as long as its safe for her. I hate seeing my girl have these melt downs cause while she is being really mean she crys and laughs all at the same time. As if she does not know what emotion she is feeling.

[Hidden in reply to Mommatryingtolearn]

My son is very similar. It’s very difficult.

Big hugs to you.

[Mommatryingtolearn in reply to Hidden]

Same to you. Thank you!

[DC516 in reply to Hidden]

Same situation here. Working with stimulants now but the temper and anger remains. Tough to tell if the stimulant is really working too because there isn’t much school to test it on. We’re glad we’re home with him as much as we are (8yr old ADHD ODD) but it’s not the same routine as it was. I think we’ll be looking for a medicine to help with the temper too. I keep seeing Intuniv mentioned

[Mmagusin in reply to Mommatryingtolearn]

Try to track the timing of the ODD tantrum, severity, trigger, your response, how long it lasts until resolved. Taking a therapeutic style will help you remain calm & confident with her, which is CRITICAL. My son has a long history of ODD Aggression that I believe is rooted in stimulant med ‘crash’, associated hunger, lack of quality sleep, stress in the home: mom & dad arguing in front of him, yelling at him or scolding, & the biggest, saying ‘no’ to something he really really really wanted to do. Let me know if any of this sound familiar. When does the aggression start?

[Mommatryingtolearn in reply to Mmagusin]

At first on the first couple days she was super emotional mid day during the crash, the meds werent even lasting until dinner. Her anger flare ups are over many different things. It started because she wanted to understand how her baby sister is under a year when we say 2 months. So I tried to explain the 12 months makes a year so her sister is only 2 months out of those 12 months. & she lost it. She does not like when she doesnt know something so she will argue to make her right and us wrong. So I said okay we do not have to learn it. She yelled said she already knows it (but she refuses to even learn the days of the week) and no matter what I did after that she just kept yelling and getting in my face. Following me around the house, then telling me I need to leave the room(even though she would follow me into each room) and then if i did leave she would just follow again. It lasted until bedtime. She wouldnt give it up. She would cry in between each anger splurge cause she felt bad and she knew she couldnt stop it.

[Onthemove1971 in reply to Mommatryingtolearn]

Most children with ADHD need a booster dose of medication, which is the same type but a smaller dose when one wears off. So our son take his main dose around 7am and his booster at 4pm ( this wears off in less than 4 hours).

We can tell as soon as his medication wears off.

When the medication is correct the arguments will stop. If you start to get into a discussioin that is senseless, just change the subject and move on to something else as a distraction. This sounds like frustration for not being able to understand what you are saying.

One thing to keep in mind is that parents are providing enrichment, not copying school at home.

I wonder if videos about days of the week that are singing and dancing to incorporating movement while learning could help.

Good luck!

[Mommatryingtolearn in reply to Onthemove1971]

It wasnt from the medicine wearing off. The argument started within the first hour she took it. And the arguments have increased each day. She was the one who asked the question, but then changed her mind & got upset. I changed the subject for her as soon as she started getting upset, but it didn't matter how calm I was or what the subject changed too. Her anger had begun.

Today I took her off the meds. We talked about the months in the year again, she sat and listened without anger and then we continued to colour.

Definitely staying away from those meds.

[Mmagusin in reply to Mommatryingtolearn]

Definitely could be med related

[Mommatryingtolearn in reply to Onthemove1971]

I should say sat and listened as well as she could. Without an argument

[mplaz in reply to Mommatryingtolearn]

Emotional dysregulation is common with ADHD. I find it one of the most difficult things to help my daughter with.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this right now ❤️

[christelferrer]

First big hugs, this is a long journey that can exhaust the best of us (and in us!). My son, 9, has been diagnosed with adhd/odd/anxiety over 3.5 years ago. The anxiety may drive the odd in cases so you may want to look into it.

We have tried more than 5 meds before finding the right combo. I took diligent notes each time and I can report none of the stimulant worked for us. The anger and destructive attitude were over the top.

We are now on a combo of Zoloft and Guanfacine (same as Intunive) for the past 2 years. When school closed (blessing for us as it was a horrible year), we had difficulties with completing the assignments in time so after speaking to our neudevelopmental specialist, we decided to add a stimulant to see. We figured that things may have changed in 3 years... it was a disaster, the destruction began within 2 hours. We gave it 3 days and stopped. My point being that some kids will never respond positively to stimulants. After 5 tries (different ones), I won’t do it again.

We also do therapy once a week and have him practice Taekwondo for discipline and focus as well as piano (focus driver supposedly).

Hang in there, it is tough and this community is here to help.

[Mommatryingtolearn in reply to christelferrer]

Thanks! We are looking into psychiatrists who will actually meet with us. So far 3 different doctors only want questionnaires without actually meeting her to diagnose her!

[Hidden in reply to christelferrer]

Christelferrer, Did your doc ever suggest straterra?

[christelferrer in reply to Hidden]

Yes but I don't believe we tried this one. So far from what I remember, we tried Vyvance, Vayarin, Ritalin, Adderal, Concerta. Now we are with Zoloft (37.5mg) and Guanfacine 2mg (Same as Intuniv).

[Hidden in reply to christelferrer]

It’s a non -stim ADHD med.

[christelferrer in reply to Hidden]

Good to know. Thank you for the tip.

Is your child taking it and what do you like about it? (improvements, side effects, etc). I love hearing parents' feedback because we are on the front lines! If you could give me your quick story and why you like it, that would be wonderful. Thank you!

[Hidden in reply to christelferrer]

We are on the front lines too! 😂

We have only just begun taking Intuniv. So I’m looking for feedback on straterra as well.

[christelferrer in reply to Hidden]

AH! We will have to dig for info then! Intunive/Guanfacine has been OK for us...so far.

[Katiebug2015]

Hi. I was wondering how your daughter was doing. I have a 5 year old daughter who was diagnosed at 3 with adhd and odd. She was very aggressive, even hitting and punching her classmates and myself. Also could not focus at all. She is now on 10 mg Adderall, Guanfacine and also Depakote for mood stabilization. She also used to laugh and then cry in addition to her tantrums. Things are much better with her mood and focus but we still have some rough days.