7 yr old making life unenjoyable.

[Gator76]

Our 7 yr old has been diagnosed with ADHD and Anxiety and he exhibits many symptoms of ODD. He loves to argue with us, he refuses to do anything we ask, he consistently is putting his younger brother in danger, he intentionally does things to upset/annoy us and his little brother, he often has an angry attitude when he doesn't get his way and gets very destructive and he speaks harshly to us and his little brother. He is not on any medications at the moment and we plan on seeing a family psychologist. In school he seems to be doing pretty good except for the attention part and being impulsive. Most of our issues stem when he is home. Me and my wife somedays feel like we are going to lose it with him. Is there any advice you can give moving forward? Is medication going to be the only way forward? My wife at the time is against medication but the way things are going this may be the only option to keep our family sane.

[christelferrer]

Hi Gator76,

My son has the exact same co-morbidities as yours. He is 8 years old and displayed the same behavior you described but was way worse in school.

I, as well, resisted medication until 1.5 years ago and tried it all before: diet changes, ADHD friendly activities (sports, and all), strict schedules and routines...

The only combo that worked was medications + cognitive behavioral therapy + family therapy. This has been a life changing experience.

We learned the tools on how to talk to him and how to keep calm, release the guilt, and work on proactive and positive methods.

He learned ways to cope with his anxiety, how t manage his emotions, and how to voice his troubles.

The medications were essential to our journey. We tried 5 different ones before finding the correct combo. I strictly recorded everyday symptoms and behaviors before finding what was working. But it made such a difference that I am convinced we made the right decision.

He is taking Sertraline 12.5mg in the morning which is for the anxiety (for our son, the anxiety is the motor behind the ADHD and ODD) and Guanfacine 1mg in the afternoon to tame the impulsivity and aggressivity symptoms.

We tried to spend 3 weeks without the Sertraline recently (our doctor asked us to try without), it was a disaster. We got back on it and our son is back to himself too.

I completely understand that you don't want or have some resistance going that road. I was there, it is so difficult to take this path but our son is finally showing his best potential.

He does not follow therapy anymore (he asked not to since he thought it was not helping anymore). But we signed him up to Taekwondo a year ago and the discipline and focus it requires helps a lot.

I have read tons on ADHD, it is very important to be as much knowledgeable as you can on the topic to understand what the kids are going through.

He is doing well but we keep doing the following:

Meds + Routines (even during summer) + limited screen times (2 hours during weekend only) + good diet (our son is super picky but we manage to have him take a very well balanced diet rich in protein and fat, essentials for the brain, limit the sugar big time) + adapted sports + a lot of time outside + adapted parenting for ADHD.

IT IS SUPER HARD. We have both very demanding jobs but the results are SO worth it. We enjoy our son now. It was not always the case.

Good luck and stay strong.

[Gator76 in reply to christelferrer]

Thanks, for the cognitive behavioral therapy what kind of specialist did you see?

[christelferrer in reply to Gator76]

It was a cognitive behavioral therapist.

[Onthemove1971 in reply to christelferrer]

What a wonderful, encouraging message. Thank-you!

I hope everyone also has an educational plan for their kids, school gets harder with growing expectations yearly and getting an educational plan is very helpful since we want to make our kids as independently as possible without us doing the work with them.

[christelferrer in reply to Onthemove1971]

Definitely! That’s an excellent point. We do have an IEP at school and my son’s counselor this year was WONDERFUL. He made so much progress. Yes, you want the school on your side! That’s for sure.

We have also implemented a chart at home where he can earn points for chores and good behavior. Then he can trade for something he wants (such as Pokémon shirt—this was the latest) or additional screen time during the weekend. It keeps him motivated.

During the school year, I let them know what we are working toward and they apply the same system at school. Same for us if he is working toward something special at school. Constant communication and openness are keys.

[Mrmt99 in reply to christelferrer]

Thanks for sharing! We are in the same boat with my 9 year old daughter and right now she is just in Vyvanse but I think she needs something else for her ODD. We are so exhausted with the continuous arguing and being super rude to us and to her sisters. She is great by herself and at school but at home her behavior is explosive!

[christelferrer in reply to Mrmt99]

This is hard, take care.

Vyvanse did not work for us :-(. We tried: adderal, vyvanse, strattera, vayarin ( more of a supplement) guanfacine.

Results were best with Guanfacine which is originally to treat hyper blood pressure. It worked ok but recording his behavior showed me that when anxiety was high, symptoms were worse. I had also the school psychologist observe his behavior during class over 3 days at Radom weeks. She concluded the same so we are treating the anxiety with a mini dose of Sertraline (Zoloft). It works.

No surprise here as my husband has been taking it for over 15 years. Anxiety and ADHD are hereditary...

[willowadhd in reply to christelferrer]

This was very helpful. I am going to try to be consistant in recording my dd behavior and symptoms. A little add myself can I ask how you recorded it and made sure to follow through? Was it a notebook? pen paper?

[christelferrer in reply to willowadhd]

Hello,

I am glad I could help a little. I built an excel spread sheet with days and hours of the day as well as a daily journal. That way I could track symptoms/progress or tantrums and issues. It helped me pinpoint that stimulants were a no go for us.

[GoDukes in reply to christelferrer]

Gator76, your story sounds so much like mine as well. My son is 10 now but around 7 he was displaying real anger issues at home and a lack of focus and being disruptive at school. We were very hesitant to put him on meds and tried everything as Chistelferrer mentioned. Eventually, the grades started suffering and there were too many notes coming home about his behavour in school. We got him on Foculin in the morning and it made a huge difference with his focus. After 8/9 months we started him on Guanfacin in the evening too. It seemed to help his emotional issues in the evening that were probably related to him coming off of the Foculin. This was only part of the plan though. Being super calm and understanding when he was upset also made a huge difference. He feeds off of other's negative energy and so if I was calm, he would calm down much quicker. It is not always easy but it made a huge difference for us, plus I think seeing me lead by example teaches him that getting upset about every little thing is not the way to be. Then structure and routine are critical for him. Having lists of tasks to check off keep him on track and I've found that rewards for good behavior seem to work much better than punishment for bad behavior. Don't get me wrong, he still gets punished, but it doesn't seem to have the same long term effects on his behavior as rewards do. I wish you the best. Educate yourself as much as possible and be prepared to try many different things until you find what works for your son.

Oh, and one other thing. Even before the meds, by chance, we tried taking him off of artificial food coloring and it immediately made a HUGE difference with his temper. He has been off of that for about 4 years now. We've tried reintroducing it at times with horrible results. Just another thing to research and maybe try! Good luck!

[squier]

Have him tested for Asperger's by TWO, not ONE psychologist.

[Gator76 in reply to squier]

Thanks but he doesn't have autism. His communication and language skills are superb.

[MunchkinMommy537 in reply to Gator76]

He could still be on the spectrum. My son is very vocal and communicative, knows how to read at or above his age, but he has autism.

[Cjkchamp]

Highly recommend you guys look into broad spectrum micronutrients. After trying medications for a couple of years without real success, my 7 year old is now having success on micronutrients. There are two companies, Hardy Nutritionals and True Hope. Good luck!

[Gator76 in reply to Cjkchamp]

Thanks I will check them out

[Crunchby]

Sorry for your stress. There are so many folks here who have posted nearly the same concerns. So, good news you're not alone! Yes they can be little assholes, just try to remember they really can't help it, unlike some adults that are just assholes, period. They have lagging skills and are unable to solve their problems. I'd recommend trolling the posts here, listening to Dr Russell Barkley's free YouTube. all great stuff, but id skip to the part about medication. youtu.be/SCAGc-rkIfo(Not working as expected?)

There's lots of parenting methods out there, you just have to keep trying and adjusting to fit your situation and child. Personally reward systems just made ours more spoiled. I like the CPS method put forth in the explosive child. Livesinbalance.com. There is a two hour abridged version available.

Either way good luck, and stay strong and calm. He can't, you have to.

[Janice_H]

Hello, medication and behavior therapy will really improve your situation and make home less chaotic. Be sure to be consistent with any discipline (punishment, taking away electronics, canceling fun events, etc.) Spankings and yelling does not typically work and only leaves you feeling bad. Just know that things will improve with the right medications. Don't give up. There are many parents on here who have gone through what you are experiencing.

[Joanna03]

Good morning. I am a coach that specializes in ADHD and not a parent of a child with ADHD. Before I offer any thoughts I like to make that clear as I have not personally been in your situation. That being said, I am familiar with anxiety and wonder if much of your son's behaviour is anxiety driven - with the added bonus of reduced self-regulation courtesy of the ADHD. At 7 he may not have the language to express how he feels, thus the acting out behaviour. One small thing that might be helpful is to provide him with a visual rating scale to express how he is feeling. This can be described to him as "How hot is your engine running?" (possibly shown as a car in various colours). When the engine is running at a green (on a scale of 1-4) he is feeling ok. When the engine is yellow (scale of 5-7) he is starting to get worked up and it's time to implement behaviour strategies. When his engine is red (8-10) it is time to remove himself from the situation and implement strategies to calm down. The strategies to move from yellow to green or red to yellow/green, need to be discussed in a calm moment when your son is receptive to the conversation. My guess is that this behaviour is as difficult for him as it is for you. If you think about it, how awful must it feel to be constantly losing it? With regard to medication, this is something to be discussed with your physician. While I am not a doctor, my experience is that getting the right medication at the right dosage can take time. Make sure you have a health care professional that you trust and feel supported by in this process. Wishing you all the best.

[Gator76 in reply to Joanna03]

Thanks we have already seen our pediatrician and he has given us several options for medication. Unfortunately my wife is still not on board in regards to the medications. I think the key is keeping him busy. He seems to do very well when we keep him busy but we really need to work on his listening and being respectful.

[Pennywink in reply to Gator76]

It is very common for one parent to be more resistant to trying medication. My husband was dead set against it & even made some unkind accusations towards me (which he has since apologized for.)

Now, my husband is the one most adamant our 7 yr son takes his medication every day.

What helped was bringing my husband to all appointments with doctors & teachers, and letting him ask the doctor a million questions. We started medication as just a trial that we could stop at anytime. We tried non-stims first at my husband’s request (though given how my son seriously chills out with caffeine, I suspected we would need a stimulant - which is what we are on now.)

[anirush]

If he does well in school without medication, great.

We put my grandson on medication when his behavior became very disruptive in the classroom and even at recess. No matter what rewards, punishments etc we or the teacher put in place, He was not able to control himself. We felt his self-esteem was starting to suffer and that he would begin hating school.

He became a model student on medication in is now in a collegiate program in high school. Still on medication by the way.

[MunchkinMommy537]

As someone with depression and anxiety who also refused medication for a long time, here’s what I tell people who are against medication: mental illness is just like any other illness, except instead of being a problem with the lungs or pancreas, it’s a problem with the brain. If you wouldn’t withhold an inhaler from someone with asthma, or insulin from someone who is diabetic, why would you withhold medication that can help your child’s brain work better? So many people find medication to be beneficial, and the side effects are not as bad as most people believe. Most ADHD medications are fast acting, so you know within a couple of days if they are going to work. A pediatric psychiatrist would be the best person to see for this, as a psychologist is not trained to recommend medications. Now medication will only help so much; CBT, anger management, and family counseling are still needed, so keep looking into those as well. You also need to be sure to take care of yourselves, both together and separate. If you have someone you trust to watch your kids schedule dates with your wife at regular intervals. Remember what you are like without kids. Also allow her to have days that she can go do her own thing, and make sure she allows you to do the same. Self care is important to keep your sanity.

[hygienehollie]

Hello, My son is now 8. We started seeking treatment when he was close to 6. Our pediatrician had referred us to an autism spectrum appointment. They ruled it out and said it was more along the lines of Adhd and anxiety. Which I agree with. We have tried multiple medications for the adhd-Focalin, Jornay pm, adderall, guanaficine, none of which work great. Currently he is taking Adderall XR 15mg, Focalin 10mg, 75 mg Sertraline, Abilify 5mg in the morning. He take a 5mg Focalin at school as a booster. He takes 10mg Focalin and 5mg Abilify in evening.

With all of this he is still defiant, rude , inattentive a lot! He can be such a sweet boy, but we are really struggling. I’m lookI got for any advice. He also does behavioral counseling twice per month, I’m not really sure this helps. It really puts a strain on the whole family.