Discussion of Reverse T3 with Stop the Thyroid Madness Now


Accumulated knowledge from a long time sufferer with reverse T3 who is now taking only T3.

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Most people are familiar with Janie Bowthorpe of Stop The Thyroid Madness but most are probably not as familiar with Val and Nick. Val has been the moderator on the Yahoo adrenal group for a number of years as well as I believe the RT3 group. Nick is a co-moderator on the RT3 group and developed the web site as a place to share info. This is the home page.


The website is chock full of info and is based on the experience of many people over many years. By the way, Dr. Holtorf apparently is the one that figured out that for people that 'chase'

thyroid it was an RT3 problem. PR

Yes, regarding Janie. Thank you. I found that interview on Dr. Holtorf's website actually. I've been trying to figure out my T3-RT3 ratio since reading about it. It can't be correct at 127???? Even their own calculator says that but it must mean 12 to 1.

Hi Heloise. Did you have your blood for T3 and Reverse T3 taken at the same time and measured by the same laboratory? It is crucial to take one blood sample to perform both tests at the same time.


Hi Edysia, how are you doing? We all think about you.

I have just plodded along for years and years with all sorts of symptoms you know all about so this past week I just asked for all the tests mentioned here except for ferritin (really unfortunate because that radio interview mentions how very, very important that one is before starting on T3 which is what I was considering). But I don't know for sure what to do because my FT4 and FT3 were barely above the minimum and my RT3 was 20.4 (9 to 24 range). So when I did the division, I came up with this ratio of 127 even if I divide 2.6 by 20.4 without changing the decimal points. argh

My TSH is 1.6 so I know it will be a struggle since it looks good on paper.

Can you listen to the radio link I placed in the first blog? I'll tell you that women suffered for years and years. She now is well versed in all things thyroid.

Heloise, if you will post your FT3 or T3 and RT3 values including the range and the UNITS of MEASUREMENT, I will give it a shot and see what I come up with. PR

I am also in the U.S. PR but find it as difficult to find someone with knowledge as the poor people in the UK. I think you divide the T3 by RT3?

These are ng/dl

Low D 37

TSH 1.66 0.450 -4.500

FT3 2.6 2.0-4.4

FT4 .85 .82-1.77

RT3 20.4 9.2-24.1

Heloise, Looking over my results my vit D is ng/ml but my RT3 and FT3 are pg/ml. This page gives some examples, it is the same website. thyroid-rt3.com/examples.htm

They say this on the page "Whatever units are used you need to make sure that the FT3 number is about 10 times the RT3 number and move the decimal point if need be to achieve this."

If you do that I also get 12. I would suggest joining the Yahoo group and asking for assistance. I simply do not have enough experience with this to claim any competentacy. This is the link for the group.


Your FT3 and FT4 are definately both on the low side. If you are anywhere close to Calif. you could go see Dr. Holtorf. I'm afraid I wasn't much help. PR

Thanks very much, PR. Right, it is 12. I see that one blood test is pg and one is ng . I've been thinking it may be an adrenal problem so thanks for the yahoo website. I've never looked at that.

Unfortunately I am in NY state and that one endo on Mary Shomon's list is no longer taking patients. I can imagine why. I had a laugh to see my old endo on her list which I would never, ever recommend. He never told me I had Hashimoto's, never told me about antibodies (before I knew there were such things) and only put me on Synthroid.

Heloise, Dr. Erica Schwartz is in New York, she has worked with Dr. Holtorf I believe. The two of them were founders of the Bioidentical Hormone Inititive. drerika.com/

Also Mary had an interview with a doc who practices integrative medicine who sounded pretty sharp in New York, both he and Erica are in the city I believe. I will try and find the link and forward to you. Sis went to school at Cornell and I got to visit a couple of times, some pretty country in that state. For a few years I was in the city for market week every spring and fall. I think the best way to check the adrenals is a salivary adrenal stress test with 4 samples. On the website they talk about using temp to check the adrenals and Janie also talks about how to use temp on her website. PR

This is the other doc Mary interviewed in NY, PR


Dr. Borenstein....finally someone who sees the whole picture.

The really sad thing is that 20 years ago when I first became ill before I had a computer and only a home medical book by Dr. Fishbein, I discerned myself that I might have an aldosterone deficiency. Dr. Borenstein calls that a cortisol stealer or adrenal stealer, anyway, the point is a person knows their own body and symptoms and with a "little" cooperation from a practioner, I might have been spared 20 years of wicked, frustrating, painful deprivation of good health. I have been trying many of his assortment of tools as some are quite over-the-counter. I think even LDN which I checked out five years ago was a possibility. I should have done it but I didn't know as much as I know now. Now I'm fairly resentful, lol, and probably put off any doctors who might privilege me with their presence for about $1000/hour.

Hi PR4NOW. the site is very good. thank you for sharing. I am still not sure unfortunately who can test my reverse T3. Are there any other places/labs that do this tests apart from Genova.


Edysia, I live in the USA so I'm am not as up to speed as the admins are. Perhaps if you did a post asking that question the admins could give you some accurate info. I have a sister that has lived in England and Scotland since 1970 if you are curious what I'm doing here. And I enjoy talking to my cousins across the pond, it gives me a different perspective. PR

Curious as to what is wrong with Genova?


I have read that best thing to do is to take blood samples for both T3 and RT3 at the same time and then to calculate the ratio. Genova do test kits, so I am not sure how to do the same blood sample test with Genova??? Unless is pricking the finger and sending them drops of blood.

Thanks for the link, it's excellent and very easy reading for a change :)

Going by this I definitely have adrenal problems as I have ALL the symptoms, in fact these are my main symptoms and the ones that got me diagnosed with CFS/FIBRO.

My endo is going to do a synthacen test, wondering if this will this pick it up?

Just out of interest, what was your serum Cortisol level?

Mine was low but Endo still would not run extra investigation, and I have found others would do at levels far above mine!


I can't find my old tests right now!!! But I do know that they were 'normal'. I am having the synthacen test because I came up with a list of the other possible issues, one of which was adrenal problems. As the registrar/endo couldn't give me a reason as to why the T3 worked and then didn't and also agreed that the blood tests isn't very accurate(when I pointed it out).

I think you either have to argue your case and back it up with knowledge/printed research or find another endo. I hope you can get what you need. Good luck :)

I did... I self treat! But this sort of thing shouldn't be necessary of course.

Mine was 180, btw the bottom of the Range was 150 - I have spoken to some as high as 220 who still had further testing to rule out serious Adrenal insufficiency.

You're right it so shouldn't be necessary! I think I just caught my docs off guard to be honest. They've already said they don't think it will show anything, just hoping it does as i really think this might be the issue.

I hope at least you are well now by self-medicating and if not that you can find someone that will help you soon. x

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