Dosing Thyroid with Hydrocortisone

[ElainedeBeaux]

Would someone be able to tell me if there is anyway I can take Armour Thyroid during the day without HC. I've been doing T3CM at 4.30am with great results but has irritated my stomach that much I've had to stop. I could cry as energy much better on that protocol. Now I have (once tum settles and I hope it does) go back to dosing during the day.I was on 3 grains but the heart palps not good.Don't mind a couple of days but it keeps me awake. I was on 25mg HC. got off it in 4 days with T3CM. I will have to stay at 2 and half grains and edge up slowly but when I do the same thing happens-heart palps.I was on 1 and half with T3CM. could not day dose. Would really appreciate help.

[greygoose]

Hi Elaine, I'm not sure I understand your question. I didn't know you could do T3CM with NDT, I thought it was just with T3. But T3 isn't measured in grains...

How on eath did you 'get off' HC in 4 days? Did you have an adrenal test after just four days? If not, how did you know your didn't need it anymore. It usually takes several months - or even years - to restore your adrenals to health.

And what do you mean 'take Armour thyroid during the day without HC'. It isn't obligatory to take HC when you're on Armour. You take HC because your adrenals are fatigued.

I have had some experience with HC, and I love to help you, but I just don't understand the question...

Hugs, Grey

[ElainedeBeaux in reply to greygoose]

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my help question. This is the best forum for people getting back to you. I do have low adrenals as had saliva test and not good. So Dr put me on armour thyroid and Hysone(HC). You can take NDT for T3CM, I took one and three quarters in the end before I stopped and because I got such a good response I honestly didn"t need HC, BUT I could not dose during the day as it made me too wonky with Armour. I did try one day and had no problems taking quarter grain at 11am. Thought WOW! However, that may explain your question about how I got off it. Yes I realize you take HC for fatigued adrenals and mine are but that 4.30am dose of NDT really gave me energy and picked up my BMR. I was planning to introduce a day time dose but my stomach issues too severe. From what I can read from Paul Robinsons book, if your response with the a.m. T3CM dose is responsive enough you can come off HC slowly. I had only been taking 25mg for 4 months. So I may give T3 a go but that needs to be done 4 hourly or whenever you need it. just find the HC stuff eeeeew! but maybe I need to rethink if I want to get better. XX

[greygoose in reply to ElainedeBeaux]

Well, I would suggest getting your cortisol tested again to see where you are. The point is, if your adrenals are fatigued, the body is going to have a difficult time converting and using the thyroid hormone. If you think you are using the thyroid hormone efficiently, then perhaps you don't need the HC. But best to get tested before making any decisions.

What does 'eeeeew!' mean, exactly? lol

Grey xx

[greygoose in reply to greygoose]

Have you tried breaking your NDT into even smaller doses and taking it more often? I know someone who swears by taking tiny, tiny doses every hour on the hour through the day. A bind, but it works for her.

Or, have you tried taking it all in one go at night before going to sleep? That's what I do. Works for me.

[ElainedeBeaux in reply to greygoose]

Never tried taking little bits at a time. I get dizzy even on quarter grain without HC.

Not good idea night time. Wow! up all night from quarter grain.

[ElainedeBeaux in reply to greygoose]

Ha ha ha 'eeeew' means yuk! Ok thank you.I know that my adrenals are not heeled. I don't use thyroid hormone properly.I get tired and dizzy without HC. I read Paul Robinsons book and saw that he healed his adrenals with T3 and some with NDT and lots folk are coming off HC from the response that you get at a.m. That a.m dose must pick up adrenals somehow as I noticed I had more energy during the day. I guess you could say its like putting petrol in your empty car.Thanks again for caring x

[ElainedeBeaux in reply to greygoose]

Hi Greg. I am back on day dose 2 and half grains Erfa and 25mg HC. Do you know what happens to you when you get into a adrenal crisis and Adrenaline is given by your adrenals to stop hypoglycemic coma? Will HC support the adrenals as I can't get to sleep. I've got melatonin and even that is not helping:(. I worked on Saturday and my job is very very busy and I did it 2 weeks ago and was fine, but now from that time I can't sleep. I need my sleep, but then don't we all. Hope you can input. Thank you

[greygoose in reply to ElainedeBeaux]

Hi Elaine, once again, I don't really understand your question. I have never heard of adrenal crisis, so I have no idea if HC would support it. But I imagine that if your adrenals are going into crisis then they are in a very bad state, in which case an early morning dose of HC would be a good thing. However, you should never take HC after mid-day because that would cause your adrenals to shut down.

What did you do 2 weeks ago? That isn't clear.

Actually, melatonin isn't recommended for hypos because it lowers T4 levels in the blood.

Grey

[sallypg in reply to greygoose]

Hi Greygoose, please tell me how one doses with HC. You said we shouldnt dose after midday? Yet on other forums they recommend it 3 times a day so now I'm a little confused. Thanks

[greygoose in reply to sallypg]

I don't blame you for being confused. It would seem that most peope are when it comes to HC. I'm not an expert, I am just repeating what I was told - by a hormone expert (not an endo!) - when he put me on it.

I repeat :

The way to give your adrenals the rest they need in order to recover is to give them a helping hand during their busiest time - the morning - and to let them get on with it by themselves the rest of the day when the work-load is lighter. If you supplement them all day, imitating their natural out-put, they will shut down, and once they are shut down, they cannot start up again. If they are forced to keep working just a little bit, they will rest and recover and, one day, you will be able to safely come off the HC.

I get shouted down a lot when I say this, but this is what worked for me. One dose first thing in the morning, one around lunch time. But I just give people the information, as it was given to me, and they must decide for themselves.

I don't know, but I get the feeling that people are sometimes confusing adrenal fatigue with Addison's. If you have Addison's then, of course, you do need to supplement in imitation of the gland's natural out-put or you will die. But with adrenal fatigue, as I see it, you just need to give them a helping hand.

Hope that helps.

Hugs, Grey

[sallypg in reply to greygoose]

Ok, that is what my doc told me, one in am and one at midday too. I read though that acth shuts down when it senses cortisol in the system so if you take too little, you will still be under replaced because your adrenals go slower than normal when HC in the body.

Anyway it is just all confusing. I have hc here but not taking yet, too scared!

How did you get on with it Greygoose? Did it work for you? What were your doses and times? How long did you stay on it?

[greygoose in reply to sallypg]

Oh, gosh, I'm sorry, bbut it was all so long ago I don't remember the détails - I have no memory at all. And it didn't occur to me at the time that I should make a note of things like that.

As I remember it - but DON'T take this as gospel - I took about 40 in the mornin g and 20 at lunchtime, but my doctor prescribed extra so that I could take more if I felt I needed it - extra stress, illness, etc. And I think I took it for about two years but - due to certain circumstances - I think I came off it too soon and had to go back on it.

However, now, I would say, yes, I do feel it worked for me. I feel I cope rather well with stress now. I don't know if it helped my convertion (I somehow think not) because I'm on T3 only and don't dare add T4 back in because it made me so ill before.

On the subject of adrenals, I read rather an interesting article today. Perhaps you would like to have a look at it :

davidjernigan.blogspot.fr/2...

I'm afraid I don't know anything about atch, but I gather that it's rather like TSH, so that could be true, but then again...

[sallypg in reply to greygoose]

So you weaned off it after 2 years? How did you know when the time was right? thanks for link, very interesting

[greygoose in reply to sallypg]

I didn't really know. I'd 'split' with my doctor by then, long story, and wasn't getting my prescriptions or my blood tests anymore. I felt stronger, more able to deal with stress... I just thought, ok, let's give it a go, wean off slowly...

But, maybe it was just that life had a lot more horrors in store for me that were more than most of us could cope with, anyway, and I just collapsed. I found out where I could buy it on-line and started all over again. Anyway, I'm fine now, and that's what counts.

I don't know. Don't suppose anybody really does, as much as doctors pretend to know everything, I think they're just winging it most of the time. My experience, anyway...

Last doctor I had - oh, lord, I've written so much about that man on here! lol Although he was a very nice man, with the very best of intentions, he was so abismally ignorant... Anyway, I asked him to test my adrenals. He looked confused. I explained that blah blah blah, thought they should be tested. He said no, of course they didn't. I said OK... so, in your considered opinion, being hypo doesn't put a strain on the adrenals? And he said - I shall never forget this to my dying day - oh, he said, people are always asking me that! I was dumb-founded. We are here, in a little industrail town, just north of Paris, with a majority immigrant population, many of whom don't even speak very god French and who certainly don't have a very high level of general education - same goes for the majority of the French in this town! - and he wants me to believe that his patients - the people I see sitting in the waiting room staring blankly at the wall - are ALWAYS asking about the Relationship between thyroid and adrenals???? I just sat there with my mouth open, unable to utter a word. But, the up-shot was, no, he doesn't believe there is a connection.

So, what did I say? Thank you, doctor (he got very upset if people didn't say thank you, even if there was nothing to say thank you for), good bye. Well, what else can you say?

[sallypg in reply to greygoose]

It is so hard to find a decent doc. The ones that do a halfway decent job on this issue must be rolling in it as they are usually private.

When you finally weaned off it, did you feel good or still experiened wobbles?

[greygoose in reply to sallypg]

I honestly can't remember. It was about seven years ago and a lot has happened since then. I suppose I must have done, at first, otherwise I would have gone straight back on it.

My whole life went pear-shaped about four years ago and put me into a tail-spin. I'm only just getting out of it. So, I guess that must have had an effect on my adrenals, too. But I don't think it was all adrenals. So difficult to tell what is what sometimes.

[sallypg in reply to greygoose]

Yes it is. Im a bit scared of going on it but i think i know im going to have to. First though, im going to give LDN a try. The more i read about it, the more it sounds like a wonder drug. Anyway lets not get the hopes up too much , very easy to be let down with this illness

[greygoose in reply to sallypg]

Do you have a doctor to prescribe you LDN? That's my dream, but no doctor in France knows what it is. Well, I haven't found one, anyway.

I'm not sure of the effect of LDN on the adrenals, but Worth a try. Many people seem to do well on it.

But don't be scared of HC. Just take it in the morning, and you should be fine. I never had any sort of a bad reaction to it. And your doctor seems to know what he's doing with it. How much did he prescribe?

[sallypg in reply to greygoose]

Only prescribed 10mg. Yes my doc will prescrbe LDN, thank goodness.

What thyroid meds do you take? Forgive me if I asked this before!

[greygoose in reply to sallypg]

Well, I can't remember if you asked it before anymore than you can! lol I take T3 only. 75 mcg just before going to sleep.

10 mg is rather a conservative dose. Think you might need more than that. Or is that 10 mg twice?

[sallypg in reply to greygoose]

Im on a mix of t3 and t4.

Oh, I meant the doc prescribed me 10 mg of HC.

Your dose of 60 mg per day is a lot more

[greygoose in reply to sallypg]

Yes, that's what I meant. Just 10 mcg a day doesn't seem like very much. But I'm no expert.

[sallypg in reply to greygoose]

Yes I also think its too low but he says my serum cortisol is not too bad although my saliva cortisocl tells another story

[greygoose in reply to sallypg]

Ah, they don't understand about saliva tests, do they. My one-time doctor said that a blood test is like a photo, but saliva and urine tests are films.

[sallypg in reply to greygoose]

So he is saying the films are better then...indirectly

[greygoose in reply to sallypg]

Well, yes. It gives you an on-going story, rather than what's happening just at the moment the needle went into the vein. Things change depending on circumstances.

[milupa in reply to greygoose]

greygoose, hi, I also don't know a doctor who prescribes LDN but recently ordered some for myself. Quick, straightforward.

If you want I could pm you with the details.

[greygoose in reply to milupa]

That would be very nice if you could pm me, milupa, thank you.

[Jackie]

Hi I may be being a bit thick. However, why are you keen on taking the HC? I need it but not safe for me to take it , even in local injections. I take armour and a little T3, very low FT3. I split my doses of both. It is well known that T3 should be split, 12 hours if possible. Armour contains T3, as you know, so I find best to split and take the 4 daily doses well apart.In spite of low cortisone, my thyroid has now been stable for a long time.I hope this helps. Some people find Erfa better , it may be worth a try if you do not find armour suits you.

Best wishes,

Jackie

[ElainedeBeaux in reply to Jackie]

Thank you Jackie for taking the time to answer my question. Greygoose explained the need for HC. My adrenals are fatigued so I need the HC to rest them. But I did T3CM and really got great results with great energy in the day. However, I did not dose too much during the day as it did make me spin out. I'm glad you are able to take armour and t3 without adrenal support. You are blessed as majority need the support for the fatigued adrenals. I may have to go back down the path and use HC. Yes I live in West Australia and can get from Sydney. It has crossed my mind to try. best wishes to you as you journey on.

[ElainedeBeaux in reply to ElainedeBeaux]

Typo' I live in West Aust and can get Erfa from Syney. X