Thyroid supplements

[Jojomcc]

I've been given a thyroid dissicated bovine thyroid supplement from a lady I know who also has a underactive thyroid, because she is an ex nurse and knows how hard it is for me to be prescribed T3 in the UK, but I'm unsure if I should still take my thyroid meds or if I should be reducing it ??? Help!

[TiggerMe Ambassador]

Is it called Metavive?

[Jojomcc in reply to TiggerMe]

No it's these

It's these

[Jojomcc in reply to TiggerMe]

Front

Front

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Jojomcc]

Hmmm.... so it probably contains some hormones but any ones guess how much so if you were to use it you'd have to see what happens and adjust your levo to suit.... I guess if you wanted to give it a try add one a day and retest in 6-8 weeks I'd probably say stick with your current dose of levo and see what changes.... the trouble with this sort of thing is without declared hormone levels it's likely to vary from pot to pot 🫤

[Jojomcc in reply to TiggerMe]

I think I'll have to try research how it's make etc, I've took one capsule today and yesterday, obviously I don't know how it works with meds and that

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Jojomcc]

They can't disclose hormone content as then it can't be sold as a supplement  Hidden mentions the declared hormone content of Thyroid-S which is classed as an NDT

Bovine thyroid has a lower ratio of T3-T4 than porcine which I think Thyroid -S is?

It might work well for you but if it does it's likely to lower your TSH so then the issues start with your GP looking to lower your T4 dose 😬

[helvella in reply to TiggerMe]

We also cannot believe the ones that say "no T4" or "no T3" or "no thyroid hormones".

I've looked for years to find a feasible way of removing either or both hormones. Never found any technique. And many say that it contains freeze-dried thyroid gland and state or imply no other processing.

So we are left with an indeterminate and possibly (likely?) varying hormone content. In some ways the worst of all worlds.

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to helvella]

Agreed! 200mg could be a big dose compared to most NDT 60mg 🤷‍♀️

Are they able to kill off the hormones with heat treatment?

[helvella in reply to TiggerMe]

I'm sure if they got it hot enough! Which would affect the rest of its contents - thyroglobulin, etc. Proteins denature when heated.

And the implied benefit is from taking thyroid gland that hasn't been processed beyond freeze-drying and powdering.

I struggle to understand the doses used for some of these products. Why on earth did they choose 200 milligrams? Other than being a round number, I can't see any rationale for that number.

[Jojomcc in reply to TiggerMe]

See my TSH just now, well last time it was tested was 0.66 ( 0.27 - 4.2 ) is the range, but T4 was only 13.8 ( 10 - 22 ) and I've got a host of symptoms back, which my doctor thinks is ok, but I can barely function I get my thyroid tested again on the 21st Feb, with t3 this time

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Jojomcc]

Looking back I can only see some results from a year ago which showed low folate, ferritin and B12, couldn't find Vit D. Have you managed to optimise all of these as they are essential for conversion? Have you any previous full thyroid results to share?

I'd be inclined to hold off taking these until after the blood test as they might just get you a reduction in levo when what you need is an increase even if you just plead for a trial, if your TSH is supressed it'll probably be a straight NO

[Jojomcc in reply to TiggerMe]

But the thing is I'm on 150mg, I think if I added this it's going to be too much at the one time , is why I was thinking I would need to adjust

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Jojomcc]

It could be that your fT4 result is low as it is being converted to fT3 and you just need a little more Levo..... if you are a good converter adding more T3 is unlikely to do you any favours 🫤

I'm intrigued by this comment 3 months ago "take my levothyroxine at 6am 150mg prior to starting progesterone my levels were optimal both T4 and T3"

I'm thinking you have never got up to a full replacement dose of Levo? What do you weigh?

Edit... I've just found these results from 9 months ago...

Free T4 (fT4) 18.5 pmol/L (12 - 22) 65.0%

Free T3 (fT3) 5.8 pmol/L (3.1 - 6.8) 73.0%

T4:T3 Ratio 3.190 

So you convert well and really need to go back to at least 150/175mcg alternating

They have reduced you too much due to TSH 0.01

[Jojomcc in reply to TiggerMe]

I'm waiting on an adjustment to higher dose, I've just to get my heart checked before doing so as I was getting palpitations and pain in the area, but to me it's due to hypo symptoms, I'm just waiting for appointment to have 24hr tracking then it'll be all good, yeah these levels were the best they were at, but as I said I started progesterone and they seemed to decline, but I guess as you say it could be as it's converting, I've had TSH and T3 level checked on Friday and results are due back tomorrow so we shall see what they say.

[Jojomcc in reply to TiggerMe]

So got my results back, they did do all 3 again which are as follows TSH 0.47 (0.27-4.2)

T4 14.3 (10-22)

T3 5.1 (3.1-6.8)

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Jojomcc]

Free T4 (fT4) 14.3 pmol/L (10 - 22) 35.8%

Free T3 (fT3) 5.1 pmol/L (3.1 - 6.8) 54.1%

T4:T3 Ratio 2.804 

I'd push to go back to 150/175 alternating and see how that feels as you convert really well, you just don't have enough T4

[Jojomcc in reply to TiggerMe]

Ok thank you so much, as I say I am waiting on the cardiology before they increase my levothyroxine

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Jojomcc]

Actually if you request a trial at 175mcg then it gives you wiggle room to experiment 🙂 you were right about why your heart isn't happy down to your lowered levels

[Jojomcc in reply to TiggerMe]

I do have extra 50s that I can half and trail it myself, do you think that's wise or just ask my surgery if it's ok

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Jojomcc]

Best if you can get it on your prescription but if they aren't agreeable I wouldn't hesitate to do a little fine tuning to find your sweet spot, ideally get your fT4 above 50%, I'd try 150/175 alternating for 8 weeks and then see where you are, as you sneak up on your sweet spot make smaller and smaller dose changes

You could quarter the pill to keep to the same dose everyday?

[helvella]

I am always sceptical about such products. And I make clear the reasons in my document:

helvella's medicines documents (Rest of the World) can be found here:

helvella - World Desiccated Thyroid

Contains details of all known desiccated thyroid products including information about several products not considered to be Natural Desiccated Thyroid (NDT/Desiccated Thyroid Extract/DTE).

Direct link to PDF:

📄 dropbox.com/scl/fi/gx6dmz5i...

Blog last updated 10/02/2025 - documents are regularly updated

Link to blog:

helvella.blogspot.com/p/hel...

[Hidden in reply to helvella]

Does Thyroid-S contain 35 mcg of T4 and 8 mcg of T3 as stated on p. 35? It is usually said to contain 38/9.

[helvella in reply to Hidden]

You are correct - that typo slipped in when I created this new format document and you are the first to notice it.

Corrected!

[Jojomcc in reply to helvella]

That is all gobblety gook to me lol

[helvella in reply to Jojomcc]

It all boils down to a simple question.

If you need T3 and took this product, would you get the T3 that you need?

The answer I reach is: I don't know.

We do not know how much, if any, T3 it contains. And whether any T3 content is consistent.

Nor do we know how much T4 it contains, if any. Therefore we have no idea how to adjust any T4 dose we already take to allow for that.

[jgelliss in reply to helvella]

👍

[Hidden]

Some companies claim they have removed the hormones and only left enzymes and nutrients in the final product. But I doubt there is a reliable method to selectively remove hormones and leave everything else intact.

I think the biggest problem with glandulars is the risk of variable hormone content from capsule to capsule, so you never know how much you are taking. This makes it very difficult to adjust the dosage should you need an increase or decrease.

[helvella in reply to Hidden]

And also makes it next to impossible to switch to a different product. At least, with any certainty that it will be even similar in effect.

And even more difficulty is imposed when the various products add other ingredients - and they tend to be different.