After only finding out on here a few months ago that B complex can be quite stimulating to many, and after taking mine daily for years and doing a little research, I realised there could well be a link in there being too higher dosage of one of the BVits that probably doesn't suit me that well and could be contributing to my anxiety eg the Niacin? I have been taking this one daily on instruction of my then FD a few years back, until recently prnt.sc/KiqdhoKpjYqu. There is certainly enough B12 in there as when being on it daily for years every test result came back over range, then I found out on here that you don't necessarily need to take it daily.
When I posted about the subject a few months ago I was advised to just take 2-3 a week but I am wondering if I really need ALL of them. I clearly need my B12 and Folate so wondering whether supplementing just those would be better for me then I escape the "which B vit is stimulating me too much" problem. Since not taking my BComplex daily and from recent results my Folate and B12 has dropped off quite a bit after leaving off them totally for say a week before I test and not having them at all the last 2-3 weeks I can only imagine my levels have dropped off even more which might explain why my anxiety has worsened the last 2-3 weeks although the timing coincides with my anxiety rising around the same time when my dental issues appeared and I have an extreme phobia with dentists and it took days of panicking before I could pick up the phone to make an appointment.
Anyone else only supplement their B12 and Folate and at what dose would you reciosmmend? Due to having Hashi's and the MTHFR gene I need the methyl ones
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Jefner
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Like you I find the B complexes a bit much daily. I take health leads L-Methylfolate and B12 separates. I’ve had a few different methyl cobalamin products all of them good. I also self inject B12 for tingling/balance symptoms. I tend to ensure my Bs are balanced by taking the complex just a few times a week.
I had a look at that brand and nearly pressed the buy button until I saw that one of the ingredients was "Acacia" and which I may have an issue with along with Mannitol in certain brands of Levo so I avoid that
oh blimey I have that many windows open I can't remember what I was looking at now that said Acacia sorry. How come you take such a high dose of B12. In my current complex the dose is 50mcg and most of my blood test results show I go over range even on that dose although some of my earlier tests I didn't know that I had to stop taking them a few days before testing
2022 - still taking bvits when tested
Vitamin B12 H 704 145 - 569 pmol/L
Serum Folate 35.20 8.83 - 60.8 nmol/L
April 2024 - can't remember whether I was still taking Bvits before testing, think I left off them for 2 days
Serum Folate 29.80 8.83 - 60.8 nmol/L
* Active B12 H >150 37.5 - 150 pmol/L
July 2024 - stopped Bvits couple days before test
Serum Folate 15.10 8.83 - 60.8 nmol/L
* Active B12 94 37.5 - 150 pmol/L
September 2024 - stopped BVits several days before testing
Serum Folate 19.20 8.83 - 60.8 nmol/L
* Active B12 114 37.5 - 150 pmol/L
Looking at my results of when I remembered to stop taking them before testing there is quite a difference in levels between the first and last two tests so logically I am thinking the first two tests might not be that accurate due to still being in my system and the September results seem to give a better picture due to being off them for several days and to me clearly shows I need them because of the drop in being without for those few days. Am wondering if I stay on the same dose for both and take daily, it should be adequate for me or could my Folate levels be improved upon by taking a slightly higher dose than the 400ug that my body has been used to in my complex? Obviously I don't want to overdo it and take too much. That brand also does 1000ug in the Folate but that might be too much?
My levels drop like a stone if I stop supplementing. Symptoms of low B12 return within a few days if I don’t take the high strength. Great video about it all here (from the PA HU pages, recommend reading those).
looking at my latest results I think mine might have dropped too because I haven't had any of my B Complex for 2-3 weeks now. I noticed my anxiety worsened 2-3 weeks ago with coincided with dental issues I am having and the complete fear of dentists and just picking up the phone to make an appointment sends my anxiety through the roof, so because of the timing of both together it may be that I am experiencing heightened anxiety more because I stopped my complex and my levels have dropped. If you look at my last two results where I did actually stop my B's before I tested then it does clearly show a drop which makes me think, as I said, that my levels have dropped even further in that short time due to not restarting on my complex
Unbelievable anxiety, catastrophising, seeing danger everywhere, running scenarios of possibilities over and over, inability to get outside of my thoughts and just be.
Numb right hand fingers, pins and needles at night, dead arm feeling from shoulder to little finger in the day.
Walking in to doors, poor spatial awareness.
all vanishes when I raise my levels way in excess of standard supplements and inject.
"Unbelievable anxiety, catastrophising, seeing danger everywhere, running scenarios of possibilities over and over, inability to get outside of my thoughts and just be"....that is me every single day and I must admit it has got worse the last few weeks and recently as soon as I wake I feel absolute dread and fear of the day ahead which hadn't really plagued me until recently. I take it you go through those symptoms when you have to lay off the B's before testing your thyroid? How long after restarting do you start to feel better?
I get pins and needles in the fingers anyway due to my Reynauds and my poor right hand is currently swollen with chilblains on my finger tips so it's difficult to type. It usually starts this time of year and gets worse over the winter.
Do you still balance your B's by taking a complex say once a twice a week instead of the B12 and Folate?
I don’t get it anymore when testing because I take the separate B12 and folate on those days. It’s just the Biotin in the B Complex that I avoid for around 5 days (advice is 3-5) when testing. I last had it on holiday, we were away for 12 days and I thought taking extra B Complex rather than the separates or injections would last. I was wrong! The other time it happened was when the GP asked me to stop all supplements for 2 weeks and she tested all levels. I was taking Thorn Basic B at the time. Needless to say I didn’t last the two weeks for the B Complex and took some, GP apologised for putting me through that.
I have had huge and painful chilblains all my life, father has Raynauds but not me. Haven’t had a chilblain since being on supplements and thyroid hormone replacement (2021) also moved to a modern home with a steady indoor temperature 2020.
got my tabs this morning, in fact when I looked at the bottle I had a flashback and I think I have had their brand before. Anyway, I wonder if I should still take a low dose complex a couple of times a week just to balance my B's as you say. If you recall this is the one I had been using for years Seeking Health prnt.sc/KiqdhoKpjYqu and the dosages are pretty high. I managed to find another one biocare.co.uk/methyl-b-comp.... What do you think in comparing the two, not too much and not too little?
to be honest with all that I have found out the last few days after reading up, I am so concerned right now that taking that Seeking Health brand for so long may have done some damage. I am so tempted to get a Vit B blood test profile just to see what my natural levels are which should then tell me whether I do actually need to supplement at all. they do say anyway NOT to supplement unless you test first. A lot of people were telling me to supp with Selenium because I have Hashi's and when my GP tested it a few years back I was slightly over range so if I had started to supplement it would have put me even higher
Happened to me too, GP tested Selenium and I was over too. Zinc was under. Less is more when you have supplemented for a long time I think, except for B12 I will always need more 🙏
same here with Zinc it was under but I try and have brazil nuts for that each day and also looking to now buy some crushed chia and flaxseed to add to my pumpkin seeds which I haven't had for a while. Thinking back when I worked with my FD and after lots of tests I had histamine and lots of other issues including high oxalates and although I predominently stay away from dairy the last few months I have been back on my cheddar cheese and probably having it a little too often, sometimes a little 2-3 times a day and because cheese is fermented it can set off histamine issues which in turn can cause/worsen anxiety. I generally only have it if I haven't got any cooked chicken for snacking on so I think I am gonna stay off the cheese for a few days. I also remember making myself some bone broth which was recommended and after just one cup of it my anxiety was horrendous and then I discovered it was high in both histamine and oxalates which explained it. I am going back around 6yrs but doesn't mean that those issues have gone, so it would seem I am most probably histamine intolerant. I tend to eat a good handful of cashew nuts every day as well and some places say they are high in histamine or slow degradation of histamine. Plus when I did a gene test I had the DAO which can confirm histamine intolerance. I wonder if it's worth doing a histamine intolerance test again. I spotted a home kit with Cerascreen but looking at Trustpilot their reviews arn't very good
I have messed up on my B12. All this damn anxiety and brainfog I can't think straight. In the one I have been taking for a few years the B12 dose is 50mcg and from all my results and at that dose my results have always showed me as high or over range. In early 2017 my then FD put me on these naturaldispensary.co.uk/pro... which had 400mcg B12 in. I can't find when I actually moved to the Seeking Health ones.
Found some early B12 results which I am sure I would still have been supplementing at the time of testing because I didn't know to leave on the B's a few days before
april 2018 - Vitamin B12 H 892 Deficient <145 pmol/L - could be at 400mcg dose
Nov 2018 - Vitamin B12 H 675 Deficient <145 pmol/L
Feb 2019 - Vitamin B12 H 713 Deficient <145 pmol/L - could be at 50mcg dose
July 2019 - Vitamin B12 H 676 Deficient <145 pmol/L - could be at 50mcg dose
Sept 22 - Vitamin B12 H 704 145 - 569 pmol/L - definitely at 50mcg dose but likely still taken and not stopped before test
Dec 22 NHS test - B12 912 (211-911) - - definitely at 50mcg dose but likely still taken and not stopped before test
April 2024 - * Active B12 H >150 (37.5 - 150 pmol/L - stopped couple days before testing
July 2024 - Active B12 94 37.5 - 150 pmol/L - stopped 3-4 days before testing
Sept 2024 Active B12 114 37.5 - 150 pmol/L - stopped 3-4 days before testing
More recent results clearly show I need it because of the drop when stopping before testing but looking at the high results on only 50mcg (even when still on it when testing), I think the 500mcg Health Leads I just bought is gonna be too high for me? I am totally stumped in what to do now, I don't wanna OD on the stuff, I just wanna get my doses right. I can't think straight and just getting stupidly stressed over it
Looked back on my Folate levels, 2018 - 22 I would defintely NOT stopped before testing:-
April 2018 - Serum Folate 30.60 8.83 - 60.8 nmol/L - not sure on dose, could be 400
Nov 2018 - Serum Folate 26.50 8.83 - 60.8 nmol/L - not sure on dose, could be 400
Feb 2019 - Serum Folate 41.20 8.83 - 60.8 nmol/L - not sure on dose, could be 400
July 2019 - erum Folate 20.00 8.83 - 60.8 nmol/L - not sure on dose, could be 400
Dec 2022 NHS test - Folate >24 (>5.40) - definitely on 400mcg
April 2024 - Serum Folate 29.80 (8.83 - 60.8 nmol/L - 400mcg and stopped couple days before testing
July 2024 - Serum Folate 15.10 8.83 - 60.8 nmol/L - 400mcg and stopped 4-5 days before testing
Sept 2024 - Serum Folate 19.20 8.83 - 60.8 nmol/L - 400mcg and stopped 4-5 days before testing
I wonder whether my much lower Folate levels are causing me the heightened anxiety more than the B12. You can see the considerable drop this year when I actually knew to leave off before testing and tbh I haven't been taking any B's since to looking for a swap the last few weeks so my Folate may currently be abysmal
I am thinking of one of these as a complex to take a couple of times a week just to balance my b's
On all other days take the Health Leads Folate along with a 50mcg B12 that I have always had and my results seem to show more than satisfactory? shopvegan.co.uk/product/veg...
Needing some guidance right now cus so confused and getting worse by the minute. I am approaching you more because of how you said your lack of certain B's affected your anxiety so dramatically which I am experiencing
Please note I am not a medic, have no training and only suggest what I would do or have experienced. My understanding is you can’t overdose on B12 as you will pee out any your body doesn’t need. (Obvs those with kidney disorders would need to check how this differs for them).
I take 1000mcg a day, plus injections twice a week. My symptoms have improved not worsened.
My blood test results can look high yet symptoms show that although it’s circulating it’s not getting to where it’s needed.
My advice to you would be to keep things simple. Make a plan for 8-12 weeks. What you will take, when you will test, what symptoms you will track and stick to it.
I found my local NHS mental health support line were great when my anxiety and depression were affecting me. They triaged and gave instant advice on my worst symptoms and with a 12 week wait I was booked onto CBT with a super experienced psychotherapist who was training in CBT. Talking therapies are 80% effective versus 20% medications according to the Liz Earle podcast I listened to this week. I need to do more reading to find the source of that info, but it’s encouraging!
think I just kinda struck lucky. Just phoned Biocare to place an order for the lower dose Complex and their have nutritionists there that you can speak with about anything. Just had a long convo with the lady who picked up my call and she was lovely, understood all about anxiety and other stuff. She told me I can phone anytime and speak with them for support as well as advice
was on hold to speak to them earlier but just couldn't face trying to explain everything because there is just so much with me but I will phone another time when I feel I want to talk a little more
This may or may not be relevant but about 50 yrs ago when I worked in a large mental health facility+reading up, I saw an article in one of the psychiatric journals we about a female psychiatrist injecting monthly Vit B6 injections to female patients who were going through terrible MH issues following their menstrual cycles - and the large B6 doses worked miracles! This was 50 yrs ago so surely there's more evidence regarding B6 benefits since then or was this female psychiatrist way before her time?
This is one of the reasons we recommend P-5-P rather than pyridoxine (hench Reg's excellent B Complex Comparison doesn't include the many that have this form) which can actually block uptake and testing B6 is quite expensive 🫤
Interesting, I didn't know that. I often took pyridoxine for severe PMS in my 30s and 40s (probably related to B12 and iron deficiency) along with evening primrose oil. Can you explain Reg's B complex please?
You mention dental issues but don’t say what they are. I have recently suspected that a fluoride toothpaste I use sporadically is causing issues for me. I don’t use fluoride normally. It’s not really recommended for hypos. However occasionally I worry about dental issues, a feeling I might be getting an abscess and sensitivity which tends to move from tooth to tooth.
Anyway as I said, recently suspecting it’s causing issues as I rule out so many other likely contributors.
Issues are: anxiety, nightmares and tachycardia.
Research does agree that anxiety and tachycardia are recognised side effects of some fluoride toothpastes in some people. I had no idea.
I was taking a B complex but stopped for 2 reasons. Oddly I seem to be OK for B12 and the B complex was taking me above the reference range. Also I didn't want to take niacin and I couldn't find a B complex without niacin. So I now take methyl folate (400 mcg) which is essential for me to feel well and also B1 thiamine - standard stuff from Holland and Barrett. I don't have problems with anxiety but my cognitive functioning definitely suffers without supplementation with B1 and methyl folate.
Having an impaired MTHFR gene means a higher probability that you require high amounts of methylated vits, but is not an absolute certainty, as its how the surrounding genetics are performing also.
The other genetic area often looked at is COMP, which may have impairments in which case high amounts of methyl vits aren’t always useful as can get backed up. COMPs function also relies on good methylation. When you had methylation test done, was it isolated to MTHFR or was it a whole methylation report including sub-cycles? It so what did your practitioner suggest?
Methyl vits make me agitated so I just take the lower doses found within a multivitamin.
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