I want to test so over the course of a few days I've brought that Levo dose towards morning and this morning took it at 08:00 with the Armour. I've noticed the last couple of nights I've been more restless and even more weary during the day but it's been a busy week.
This morning I woke anxious and upset.
Why might moving Levo from bedtime (when I hate taking it because I want a glass of milk to go to bed on) to 08:00 with my NDT cause me to wake anxious and in need of taking it fast? I also applied my HRT hormones quickly this morning in the hope the would settle things but it hasn't really. Now at 14:00 I'm still a bit anxious and sweating easily even though my temperature is measuring 36.3c.
Every damn thing I do with these meds upsets things. Never for the better. But this must be a clue of something. Any ideas?
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FancyPants54
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I can think of a couple of theories about why you might feel worse.
One is that I think almost anything can happen in terms of symptoms you adjust a dose. In my experience, even if it will settle down to be an ideal situation, I have often had symptoms when making an adjustment. I think it is just a shock for the body, because it is used to coping with what we're throwing at it. And especially when our illness isn't well managed, your body will be finding a way to cope as best it can with inadequate condition. So one possibility is that it's just that shock which is the issue, and in a couple of weeks you could be completely fine.
Levothyroxine theoretically is quite slow acting, so it might be a bit surprising that it seems like it was helping you sleep. But on the forum it is quite common to hear stories of it seeming to act quite fast. Maybe because we are more likely to be quite ill, or maybe because the idea it acts so slowly isn't very true
Overall I've found that splitting off additional doses can have an impact much later in the day (for example, I found introducing a late afternoon dose of T3 made me feel better in the morning when I was having my breakfast, after I'd actually taken my morning dose), so it's also possible you could be suffering just from clustering your doses up a bit more, and missing out on that spread all the way from morning to bedtime. Personally, I've benefited so much from having a pretty large number of doses, I'd love to be able to split even more if it was logistically possible, as my guess is I would benefit even more. My guess is that this is part of being much more sensitive to thyroid hormone dose than a 'normal' person, which I think is just one part of my not having done well on thyroid hormone.
Another completely different theory about why night time Levo dosing often suits people, is that it maybe benefits from having a whole night of empty stomach to be digested. So if that is true in your case, moving it into the daytime may be effectively a small dose decrease.
One little suggestion, if you end up feeling you need to return to this dose structure, could be having a dose in the middle of the night. You'd still benefit from having your doses spaced out, and any possible affect of the empty stomach. I now have an extra night time dose. It's much easier to accomplish than I would have though. I set up everything on my bedside table before bed, so I don't need to fully wake up, and definitely don't open my eyes. I just reach up to the tablet on the table, and drink from a sports bottle. I do think it's harder for a person who struggles to sleep and risks being fully woken up, or might not get back to sleep easily. I've found it harder during a period recovering from an operation when my sleep hasn't been as robust.
I have taken my Levo dose around 4am for a couple of nights on the way to 8am. And I was OK with that. No anxiety.
I don't benefit from an empty stomach at night. We eat late and I'm often not digested when I go to bed. Not ideal, but it is what it is with work schedules. We are night owls anyway. I mean I don't go to bed full, but I doubt I'm empty and I do love a drink of milk before bed. I wouldn't say it helps me sleep, but there is no anxiety in the morning.
You may well be right and I just need to see if it would settle down. I've moved it for the blood test. Might see if I can leave it there. Depends on what the test results say really.
Thanks for your thoughtful ideas. They have given me something to muse on.
Recently I have had to be ‘brave enough’ to make modifications to my regime. It’s great to see your comments Silveravocado. I feel a little less on my own, reading your experience. The process has changed lots of things for me and provided lots of new information. I am just not absolutely sure what to do with my discoveries yet. Great reply to Fancpants (I think).
I've kept the dose in the morning because I've not been able to achieve the blood test yet due to so much demands on my time. And it's settled down. No morning anxiety again now. Just absolutely bloody awful trigeminal neuropathy in my jaw, but that's another story.
Is this new? I find my symptoms ‘do the rounds’. Some will be acquiescent for a bit, then rear up and take the lead. Occasionally I get a painful jaw, almost as I recall sore ears as a kid. I’d laugh but I ask myself every time, “will it stay or will it go?” Words of a song?
It's new. I think I have cracked a crowned tooth and it's set it off. I'm seeing a dentist but it's taking time to get to the bottom of it because the crack doesn't show on the X-ray so they will have to take the crown off and investigate further. There is some decay in the roots though, that was missed by my previous dentist.
I was looking, a while back, at deep tendon reflexes which were diagnostic for hypothyroidism in days gone-by. I was surprised to see that there is one in the jaw. A while back I was looking , on the internet, at the Patient Information Leaflet of one of the T3 s. It stated that to see if your T3 is working for you you should re-test , for example, your ankle reflex if you had lost it to hypothyroidism. According to the leaflet , it will return with appropriate T3 dosing. That having been said, could your T3 dose be too low for you? Your Armour has a fixed ratio of T3 to T4 and you are taking extra levo. You MIGHT need a little more T3???Could this account for your jaw problem???? Just a thought. I thought I could throw it out there as food for thought.
No, it's a dental issue by the look of it. I think I cracked my crowned tooth by biting hard on a piece of popcorn with an unexploded kernel inside! I heard the crack. And now the new dentist has spotted some decay forming at the bottom of the roots of that tooth. Looks like the crack and the decay has set the trigeminal nerve off.
I have tried higher T3. It just drops my T4 too far and I don't feel well with low T4. I don't feel well on T3 only or on higher T3.
I've never tried it, but oil of cloves applied there might help with pain? There is also an acupressure point on the hand that you can press and hold that might help. It is in the web of the hand. You can google it. It is called the Hegu pressure point.
Gosh. I will look for that pressure point. Thanks for the name. Oil of Cloves is an old remedy for tooth ache, but I tried it once and nearly hit the roof. It hurt more than the tooth so probably won't be trying that again. I may have used it too strong, but still.
I was having a go last night. The pain has been less yesterday and today (until I forgot and put a small amount of hot egg on it at breakfast time) thank goodness but when it started aching I was rubbing those spots.
Don't rub the spot. I see that one of the internet instructions for the pressure point does say to rub it. Press and hold for maybe 3 minutes. If you find the the right spot it is likely tender and sore. Have your hand facing you, not the palm. Press into the web of skin between your thumb and first finger and hold. If rubbing works for you, by all means rub it. Many, many, many years ago I went to a Shiatsu class, which is finger pressure on acupuncture points. Took me back when you mentioned toothache. I think if I remember right , there is a point in the centre of your palm to quell anxiety, if that is any use to you. I was taught to press and hold. Hope it works for you.
I've dug out my Shiatsu book for you. It is called "do-it-yourself Shiatsu" by Wataru Ohashi. Her name for the Hegu pressure point is "Go Koku-meeting mountains". It is on the Large Intestine meridian and is #4. She says to press with one thumb toward the index finger for 10-15 seconds, 3 times. It is for diarrhoea, rash, pain of toothache, facial tension, and important for general health. Large Intestine #4 is used in Acupuncture to anesthetize the gums.
For toothache she also mentions Large Intestine #10 and Stomach #3. If you google them you will see where they are. She instructs that you press the points and hold 10-15 seconds, 3 times. Hope it helps.
I was rubbing it yesterday so today I will try the press and hold for 3 times and count the seconds. It's very achy at the moment because I dared to have a few sips of water when I got up!
3 weeks to see a specialist who might be able to save the tooth seems way too long to me. It's a private dentist, not NHS and it's the second dentist I have seen about it. I'm not happy.
That’s extremely interesting. I kind of stopped reading the PILs. All medications have so many side effects. I will again pay a bit more attention. Thank you from me.
With reference to my reply to SilverAvocado it seems to me we can only afford to change our meds status when we feel a real need and/or confidence to go ahead with change. And even although I consider you to be an ‘old hand’ you are a little surprised upset has happened again! Every time I do this, at least initially, I feel like it’s brand new and I want it to stop. Perhaps you have been stable long enough to have forgotten this iniquity of thyroid dosing. Your inbuilt ‘forgetter mechanism’ is in evidence. I am not being cheeky here, I have come to the conclusion that upset is utterly inherent to thyroid issues/dosage issues.
“Every damn thing I do with these meds upsets things.” Says everything, I think.
I did give it more time and it settled. So you were right there. I think, for me anyway, any change gives me anxiety. Not a conscious anxiety of change, that doesn't bother me, I'm brave enough to try many things. But the anxiety of hormones in panic mode. And that freaks me out because I'm not in control of it and it takes me by surprise because it's not the usual me.
Hey, I think you need to wait it out, when I did split up my dose it took weeks for it to settle, I was shaky jittery anxious, everything Could also be that your cortisol is affected by moving the dose.
It's settled. And it's more convenient to take it with the Armour in the morning so even when I eventually managed to complete my blood test(!) I think I'm going to leave it here.
I have tried taking my hormones at bedtime and first thing in the morning. I really hoped that bedtime would work for me because lots of people say it helps with their sleep.
For me the bedtime dosing just kept me awake and restless for hours. Because of bedtime high cortisol I have this problem often anyway, but changing my dosing time made it 100 times worse.
So, I had to go back to my first thing in the morning dosing.
If a particular dosing timetable doesn't work then go back to what worked best for you.
Nobody should be telling you off and saying you are doing it wrong. And if anyone does, ignore them.
I was moving it for a blood test, so yes I would get told off if I didn't. But as it happens, it's settled down now. I still haven't managed to achieve the blood test so I'm sticking with the morning dose in preparation and now I'm not noticing the anxiety or any other problems with it. Perhaps it was just the act of changing that upset things.
I love a little T3 at bedtime for sleep. But it soon builds up and makes me sweat too much in the morning! Can't win. I sleep OK though mostly. If I do wake in the night with anxiety I take a nibble of T3 and it calms it all down and I'm sleeping again in 20 minutes to half an hour.
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