curious any hypothyroid diabetics experience out there?

[Judithdalston]

22+ years of both Hashi and diabetes (Type 3c)…Gp has cut my levo from 100 to 75, and I’ve kept the T3 (5x3) as he is convinced that my high HR is from ‘overmedication on levo’ ( long story involving 4 1/2 years long covid)…felt obliged to take lower dose to shut him up and get referred to correct drs. Anyway after 12 days HR rising ( 139 after getting dressed) but so it seems is blood glucose level. Take two lots of insulin (Toujeo and Fiasp) and have Libre 2 continuous blood glucose monitor…to me looks like gen.BG fasting levels say 2 units higher, and some rather weird unexpected highs on foodstuff I normally correctly Fiasp dose. Question anyone else noticed higher BG with reduction of levo?

[FallingInReverse]

Hi! There are a few hypo diabetics on this forum. I am not one of them, but have saved a few links in the past that you might find helpful.

Bottom line - yes, our whole hormonal system in interconnected. The “how” is largely established but the “by how much” is individual with so many different variables among our own health profiles.

That being said - this might help while we see if others with more relevant experience weigh in.

Read the whole links - pulled a couple quotes as food for thought.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Conclusion

Baseline HbA1c levels were found to be significantly higher in hypothyroid patients compared to control individuals despite similar glucose levels. HbA1c reduced significantly with treatment in hypothyroid patients without a significant change in glucose levels. Significant baseline or posttreatment change was not observed in hyperthyroid patients. Our study suggests that HbA1c data should be interpreted with caution in patients with hypothyroidism.

thyroid.org/patient-thyroid...

WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS STUDY?

This study suggests that hypothyroidism may be falsely increasing the levels of the HBA1C test. While thyroid hormone therapy decreases the HBA1C test results, suggesting an improvement of blood sugar control, actual measurements of fasting blood sugars and overall glucose tolerance were unchanged on thyroid hormone therapy. This may lead to errors in diagnosing pre diabetes and diabetes in patients with hypothyroidism.

[Judithdalston in reply to FallingInReverse]

thanks, yes I can easily believe that diabetes/ hypothyroidism have a close relationship, one effecting the other…just wondered whether anyone on forum had specifically noticed reducing thyroid hormones had sent their daily BG up. Not been on the reduced levo long enough to get a HbA1c test yet! I want to collect any proofs that the lower levo dose is apparently negative to me to stop my Gp arguing the reduction.

[FallingInReverse in reply to Judithdalston]

Well… not quite what you are looking for - but the above does note clinical studies show no change in glucose levels when hypo is treated.

I will also share some dialogue from posts earlier this year where it was suggested Levo can lead to increased blood sugar.

Here’s what I shared then after researching some: It's counterintuitive. And it's never a one-to-one conclusion when it comes to our hormones. But it is supported.

It surprised me - as one would think that the impact of increased metabolism would do the opposite. But that's not entirely the whole story.

From the Levo patient insert:

5.5 Worsening of Diabetic Control

Addition of SYNTHROID therapy in patients with diabetes mellitus may worsen glycemic control and result in increased antidiabetic agent or insulin requirements. Carefully monitor glycemic control, especially when thyroid therapy is started, changed, or discontinued.

What I read about this - here are the paradoxes I found:

More glucose produced: There's a process called gluconeogenesis that happens in the liver as a response to increased metabolism (ie, from the Levo). This can raise blood sugar.

Thyroid hormones apparently also increase glucose absorption in the intestines, hence increasing the glucose that cells use, and if insulin isn't matched, blood sugar can rise.

More insulin demand - sometimes not met: As a response to increased metabolism, cells need more glucose. I think this is the one we all would think - great! Increased metabolism, less glucose! But what can also happen is that when the pancreas produces more insulin to address the increased glucose, sometimes it is not able to make enough, and blood sugar rises.

This concept has something to do with something called "insulin resistance" - which I don't know much about but I think is important here. (?) Somehow in the process of increasing thyroid hormones, insulin sensitivity is reduced and insulin can't do its job effectively.

|

Anyway - kind of the opposite evidence you were looking for. But relevant.

While you wait for others to reply. You may want to search the forum for key words like diabetes and glucose and see if you can tag anyone who might be hypo and diabetic.

[Judithdalston in reply to FallingInReverse]

yes I found info re less hypothyroid made BG levels rise, but not what I think I am experiencing. Also I am type 3c diabetic ie my pancreas produces no/ next to no insulin so I rely on that injected. Odd.

[arTistapple in reply to Judithdalston]

I became ‘more hypo’ increasing my Levo (disturbing my glucose levels) and had definite symptoms of hypoglycaemia on introducing T3, I have lately come to realise.

GP noticed but ….. as you might expect they did not connect with the hypothyroidism. Dah! We have to do everything ourselves.

I am in the process of attempting to correct this. However I see your diabetes looks especially difficult as it’s caused by damage elsewhere in your system. Surely a further added difficulty.

Anyway my hypothyroidism has definitely (I now understand) has an impact on both symptoms of diabetes (?) and my Hba1c levels.

[Judithdalston in reply to arTistapple]

Yes, as the info I found…opposite to what I think I am finding…perhaps a third + group of hormones is becoming involved?

[arTistapple in reply to Judithdalston]

Judith I have no idea. Yours looks a very complicated case. I am just working out basics. PaulRobinson books have allowed me this far with my discovery. I am still thinking it through. Everyone talks about adrenals but I think mine are only minimally compromised. For me it’s the hypoglycaemia that I am learning about. It’s brought on what I thought was SVT. It certainly felt like that to me because it more than doubled my HR. However as my resting HR is only 55 to start with, 130ish felt massive! Apparently at my level it’s called tachycardia. Still that was ‘good’ news for me.

I just can’t (well I am beginning to) understand why our doctors are so blooming useless. Someone else said this morning to me, “it’s like this is acceptable quality of life for someone with hypothytoidism”. However we know different. We know lots of people on here who are doing much better than ‘acceptable’.

[arTistapple in reply to FallingInReverse]

This is fab info FallingInReverse. I am going to chew a bit on this myself. I am in flux about these issues, doing as much research as I can. I have not come across this very interesting paper.

I wanted to help Judithdalston but I am very much just scraping the surface at the moment.

[Incoguto]

Yes, my BG rose after cutting down Armour big time and no amount of t3 so far is being able to fix it. 100 to 75 is also a big drop. HR going up higher after reduction is most likely going hypo.

[Judithdalston in reply to Incoguto]

odd, I replied to you Incoguto, but not there! Anyway…excellent news ( from my point of view) finding someone who seems to have similar effect of higher BG when thyroid hormones reduced. Thanks. I had thought about just say taking 100 levo off a week’s levo dosing rather than the drop from 100 to 75, but did not think my dr.would understand that approach! Fortunately I have always been a bad converter of T4 to T3 and take T3 /T4 combo anyway so hope I won’t go too ‘cold turkey’…I live in far NW England and not really had any summer so I’m not sure my winter clothes and blanket wearing is our microclime or low thyroid hormones!