hi all
ive just completed the Zoe programme including the cookie tests. It shows that I have poor response to both fats and carbs, so my body doesn’t really process either well at all.
Is this common in us Hypothryroid patients? If I can’t eat either fat or carbs, how am I to get my daily calories?!
What does “poor response to both fats and carbs” mean??
It means that when I eat either one, my body’s response to them is not as good as a “normal” person and hence my blood sugar/blood fat goes higher and for longer than what a normal person would.
This obviously has health implications including for weight gain.
I think with “normal” people they perhaps don’t absorb as much of the carbs/fat or maybe it trickles instead of gushing.
I’m sure that more technically minded forum experts will enlighten us further.
Poor response to sugar should be investigated as pre/diabetes. What numbers did the app report back to you - glucose?
What test does Zoe use to measure fat?
I already knew I had pre-diabetes and have genetic predisposition to it so this isn’t news. However the shock was that I’m also intolerant of fat, so I can no longer do low carb high fat diet.
The Zoe test is based on blood tests after eating their test cookie to determine how high your blood fats go.
The interesting thing is my blood glucose numbers look OK-ish on the face of things, but delving deeper, it’s my insulin is very high which is the thing that keeps my sugar within range. The minute my body is not able to make insulin then my blood sugars would sky rocket.
There’s some more info on Zoe website:
When we talk about a 'bad' response to fat, what we mean is that the levels of triglycerides in your blood remain high for a long time after eating. If the levels of triglycerides remain high in your body for a long time, this can trigger harmful stress responses and inflammation.
I just looked back at your post from 10 months ago with tons of replies on diets and approaches to keeping blood sugar down. Seems like those are what you need? Or are you looking for different answers?
The only thing I’ll say about the blood glucose/sugar - I had gestational diabetes when pregnant. It’s the same catch 22… I needed a precise number of carbs a day for the baby to be healthy. But if I ate that number of carbs in normal meals my blood sugar went over.
I managed to avoid insulin by taking all my daily carbs and dividing them up into a lot of little meals, eating 1/4 cup of this and a 1/2 cup of that every couple hours while testing through the day. I got my carbs and blood sugar stayed under where it needed to be. I was like a little scientist doing my finger pricks every 15-30 minutes at times (this was before continuous glucose monitors).
I’m not sure what numbers you’re talking when you say too high & too long. But if your blood sugar is going too high after eating the carbs you need to feed your hypo… then what classifies you as pre-diabetic vs actually diabetic?
I’m just sharing my own diabetes experience. You probably know more than me and I’m not at all saying my situation definitely applies to you. Just sharing my experience and asking questions.
I’m also aware that this is a hypo forum : ) and I also see your envious thyroid bloods (and gorgeous spreadsheets) and since your hypo looks totally and admirably “optimal” - wondering at what point you take the leap to manage your diabetes with traditional diabetes treatments - if the first step of diet and exercise isn’t managing your blood sugar as you need. Especially since your thyroid profile looks great.
I think there’s a lot of info out there on sugar/carbs and managing those through diet.
It’s the blood fats which are harder to find any strategies for.
On the face of it if I cut out carbs and fat, I should do great but that will seriously limit the calories I can eat during the day as there’s only little amounts in lean meat and veg. Surely taking calories so low is not good either.
Hi, have a look at a book called fibre first, he recommends eating fibre first, which then slows passage and absorption helping to keep levels more stable. For example if eating meat, carbs and say broccoli, eat the broccoli first. Or eat something like an apple before your meal, and avoid processed fruit like juice. I am trialling this and i feel it is working as I don't get the blood sugar spikes I used to. Good luck
Thanks. Does the book offer any suggestions on blood fat control or only sugar/carbs. I agree on the fibre first, Zoe recommends that as does Glucose Goddess.
Surely Zoe can advise you as to what you should be eating to help with this? I thought that was the point of the programme.
It is and it should 😉
Yes I have the Zoe report and will read it at the weekend when I have some time. The thing I was trying to understand is whether this poor blood fat response is linked to being Hypo and if so whether there’s any specific guidance for Hypos as this is not something Zoe will be advising on.
I was trying to understand if there’s a connection between Hypo and the poor blood fat control. Very little literature out there about blood fat control hence I asked on the forum.
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. I was thinking Zoe might offer dietary advice to help you sort out that sort of thing.
It’s very difficult. For me, I can control my blood sugar bu altering the type of carbs I eat (green leafy veg as opposed to anything based on grain)
Did Zoe mention that you could be pre diabetic or tell you what your HbA1c and your cholesterol levels are?
I found when my T4 was really low so was my cholesterol but when my T4 increased my cholesterol did too so there is definitely a link between cholesterol which (I think) is blood fats and the thyroid.
Blood sugar and fats are all rolled into what they call metabolic syndrome.
You could always look on this site for information about blood sugars and fats diabetes.co.uk
Are things better when your thyroid is optimal or do you not know?
Isn’t this just a very common component/aspect of hypothyroidism? Anything that involves metabolism is a thyroid issue.
Back to optimising thyroid meds I think.
Slight (and more than slight) helpful changes can be made through diet I have found- allegedly taking myself out of T2D but in reality my T2D symptoms actually worsening! Some markers look better, even feel better! but others not so. Body becoming more ‘sensitised’ to signs and symptoms originally lost along the way, now found again.
Anyway that’s my experience.
Regarding fat and carbs. Just piping in as a mother of a type 1 diabetic child. In diabetes, fat slows the body"s ability to process carbs, especially complex carbs. So, that might be the connection Zoe is trying to make.
It’s actually 2 separate tests that Zoe does, one is measuring your body’s response to carbs/sugar and the other is the response to fat.
Yes, but I am saying if we are talking about diabetes on some form. Fat and carbs do affect each other. If you eat a meal with fat and carbs, for example pizza or pasta and cheese, the high level of fat slows your body's ability yo process the carbs/sugars. Whereas if you ate something like steak and potatoes your body would process those carbs faster.
Fat and carbs affect each other.
Yes I understand what you are saying and I think that’s an accepted argument around how they affect each other. However the Zoe test has specifically highlighted that I have poor fat control irrespective of what’s happening with carbs. So this is another “problem” in itself that I have to find a solution for.
I’ve had Hashimotos for over 40 years (since mid teens) and did Zoe recently. I got good for everything other than gut (following a lifetime of antibiotics not surprising).
In my teens and early 20s I had repeated hypoglycaemic episodes and in my late 20s I discovered an Australian book on called the New Glucose Revolution about low GI eating which changed the way I ate. Prior to that it was cornflakes for breakfast, chocolate bars as snacks and white bread sandwiches!
Zoe will now guide you as to your optimum diet - but IME it’s likely to involve slowly increasing fibre and adding lean proteins while watching overall daily fat intake and minimising simple sugars / UPF. It’s as much about adding in as taking out - you won’t starve! I’ve followed it pretty well and sadly haven’t lost any weight 😆
Hi there, my experience is similar to yours. I was diagnosed Hashis at 24 but I am sure I was suffering probably since 17/18, 3 years of easy university life probably masked it, but after starting work at 21 I really did burn out eventually and could not function by age 24.
It’s interesting that you got “good” for various factors which would then imply (based on sample of 1) that Hashis/Hypo does not impact blood sugar/fat control.
I believe Hypo is implicated for poor glucose control anyway, so you are doing well if your control is good.
The fat intolerance was news to me and still trying to find some more info on this. It appears Zoe is the main resource for information about blood fat control as there’s very little literature about blood fat control out there. Seems everyone has been on the anti-carb bandwagon but fat has been forgotten!
I’ve previously done low carb high/moderate fat diet at the suggestion of my Endo, however now with the poor fat control highlighted by Zoe I will have to try another approach.
yes very similar story here, goitre at 16 but no formal diagnosis or medication till mid-20s when I was constantly having hypos, weight gain, exhaustion etc. There is definitely a link with blood sugar and for me it’s been getting my Levo dose adequate combined with the low way of GI eating plus I do a fair amount of exercise. I was pleased with my results which were better than expected (the gut part was another story - am working on that now!)
Hi Wired123, Have you considered or had tests for other conditions, the most common cause for women being pre-diabetic is Polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) which includes insulin resistance.
I'm a man! 😂
You don't say. How is anyone to know? Add it to your profile so it appears under your postings.
Sorry.
I did Zoe for about ten months back in 2003 and have continued to eat that way although not a member now. I had bad fat good sugar and poor microbiome (although that may have been due to antibiotics). I think the fat may have been due to my age as I'm in my 70s. I concentrated on my Zoe scores to guide me through as there was so much to think about. Overall the effect it had was to lead me to drop butter in favour of extra virgin olive oil. I eat nuts and seeds every day and mostly eat chicken, although I occasionally have lamb. Eating carvs after protein and veg led me to ditch potatoes in a roast dinner because I was too full up to eat them Swapping rice for pearl barley or other grains also reduced my carb intake and my Zoe scores. There are also a whole lot of flours out there that are much healthier than the usual. It is a real learning process. I've lost about 10 kg in weight.... sorry that really doesn't answer your question about the thyroid. I suppose I am not sure is my answer but learning to eat a different way has definitely meant I have more energy and feel better. Judith Cousins who runs the Love Food Eat Healthy Facebook page has a thyroid problem and might have some thoughts on it.
That’s some great insights. So it’s not just “fat is bad” but more about choosing the “right” fats.
I think Zoe is remarkable in that it’s so precise and gives you tailored results and solutions. Obviously us Hypos have another thing (or things) going on in the background that currently Zoe cannot take account of but it’s a huge step in the right direction and I’m surprised no one else is doing anything like this other than Zoe.
I hover into pre-diabetic territory, but my triglycerides are now fine. Their fasting level should be below 1.7 mmol/L. Mine were high before treatment and until I added a source of T3. They have remained fine since no longer taking a source of T3 but also restricting carbs. For example, 0.88 mmol/L when my TSH was 4.3 and on its way to 5.8 miu/L, having reverted to levothyroxine, only; and 0.7 mmol/L before then, when my fT3 and fT4 were both over-range.
Marty Kendall's Optimising Nutrition website may be of interest -- I haven't delved very far.
What Zoe results says is your current microbiome is bad at carbs and fat - work on your microbiome and this should (in theory) change (this is separate to any food allergy or sensitivity which zoe doesn't look at, so not all zoe advice will work for everyone). As others in the comments may have said, eat mostly healthy plant fats and carbs that are higher in fibre to feed the 'good' microbiome, and whatever else the zoe app gives you a good score on. I don't know if there's a thyroid link , my zoe results came back as better than average on carbs and worse than average on fats.
If you have completed the Zoe trial then the app will give you scores that show what foods are best for you. I think you need to read your report because I think you have misunderstood your results. It doesn't mean you can't eat fat and carbs at all, it means you have to be more careful. I too have a poor response to clearing fats. The Zoe test examined how many hours it takes for you to clear fats from your blood. For us it takes longer so we just need to be careful that we allow a longer period before we eat much fat again. This is where intermittent fasting can help ie. having a clear 10 hours from your last meal before you eat again. I had a gut retest after a few months and my gut bacteria had increased significantly.
Changing your diet will change your gut bacteria and help to overcome some of the issues with clearing fats from your blood. There are other influences too such as exercise.
Need Advice Please 
Increased anxiety…
Menopaused. Would starting HRT mean reducing NDT? Has anyone experience of this please?
I’m fine. Really?
