Carbs and thyroid

[fiftyone]

sorry, none of you seem to have understood my question. I am not talking about low carb diets at all. I am asking if a high carb diet will cure an underactive thyroid in a person who is not on medicatrion. If so, where is the research and evidence and why don't endos, GPs etc. suggest adding extra bread, pasta etc. to a diet if we suffer from underactiver thyroid. I have been on levothyroxine for many years. All you people who say yes carbs are essential, don't quite get it. Of course a balanced diet is healthy but why haven't endos, GPs etc told me to add more pasta, bread et c. to my diet if high carbs cure underactive problems. My question has nothing to do with a low carb diet or a normal healthy diet.

[helvella Administrator]

I have a horrible tendency, even desire, to consume carbs. I might like a steak, or stew, but the potatoes that come alongside (mash, chip, baked or many other ways) make the meal.

I make and eat my own bread.

I eat cake. And biscuits. And chocolate.

That has not cured my hypothyroidism.

[Lalatoot]

High carbs don't cure a thyroid problem. A higher carb diet is not the solution. All that will do is add weight.If your thyroid is not producing enough T4 eating more carbs will not increase the thyroid's output of T4.

Like a car with a faulty engine, adding more fuel will not make it run better because its the engine that is at fault.

[Lalatoot]

The reason folks on here say carbs are essential is because hypo folks who are untreated hypo or undermedicated hypo often try extreme diets and exercise to reduce their weight problem.Dieting and exercise can make folks more hypo as you need calories and carbs to effectively convert T4 to T3.

Again like everything else it is about doing things in moderation to try to achieve a balance and to help the body make efficient use of the thyroid hormones

[PurpleNails Administrator]

My way of looking at this is that low carbs might help reduce levels T4:T3 conversion & adequate carbs means normalised T4:T3 levels but the mechanism to use excess carbs to boost production & conversion of FT4 & FT3 level are not there.

Excess carbs will result & weight gain and higher blood glucose, which is why doctors will not advise you increase them.

[fiftyone in reply to PurpleNails]

From what you say, it seems as though you are linking carb levels to conversion efficency. Low carb = poor efficiency. normal carb = normal efficiency???? So you believe that carb levels have a direct effect on conversion of T4 to T3 but that high carb has no direct affect at all.

[jimh111 in reply to fiftyone]

Starvation or strict dieting will reduce conversion, a means of slowing down the body to conserve energy but dietary changes within normal limits will have no effect.

[PurpleNails Administrator in reply to fiftyone]

I think there are just so many factors impacting conversion, carbohydrate is just 1 element of it, so it’s impossible to say extra carbs = greater % conversion.

There’s many theories & suggestions of factors affecting -

* stress

* high Inflammation levels

* sleep

* weight

* activity levels

* diet \ nutrition - calories

* deficiency’s in Vit D, Zinc, Selenium, Vit B complex, Omega 3, L-Thyrosine

There’s likely more.

I’ve read studies saying low carb contributes to lower conversion. I did low(er) carb myself.

I have hyper so lowering levels was the ideal for me. About a year after being diagnosed with hyper, I was diagnosed type 2 diabetic. Dr said is was mild so reduce carbs & you won’t need to take another medication for it.

I did 80g daily carbs (moderate) 1200 calories for almost a year and lost weight. My thyroid levels did lower and I needed less antithyroid as a result. ie I was producing less - or using up more & therefore need less antithyroid to reduce it to normal level. My hyper is from a nodule a quite stable otherwise ie not as susceptible to fluctuations that you might see with autoimmune.

My conversion at diagnosis was much higher & carb diet did seem to lower both FT4 & reduce conversion rate to FT3.

Was it solely the carb intake? Doubtful - likely the weight loss & increased exercise which had more impact.

I stopped tracking carbs so carefully a year ago as my HBA1c has remained non diabetic level. Yet my worse thyroid conversion levels was a few months ago & nutrients were not optimal which was likely the main factor it certainly didn’t improve as carbohydrates increased.

It’s a vicious cycle because I find I need to be well to organise a good diet & not succumb to cravings and have good energy levels to exercise.

[tattybogle]

Increasing my (already high) carb intake didn't do anything to prevent my hypothyroidism getting worse.

Before i was diagnosed (over a period of 4 /5 yrs of worsening sub-clinical autoimmune hypothyroidism following a birth) ... i was eating an increasing amount of carbs .. i already ate loads in the form of bread ,grains ,potatoes , root veg, bananas etc but over those 4/5 yrs i also started eating a lot more of the less healthy variety... more bread , biscuits ,cakes, pastries, puddings ... mainly for the feeling of a quick energy boost, because i was constantly knackered.. i often used to need to eat some quick acting carbs first , in order to have enough energy to stand at the cooker for long enough to cook dinner.

This huge and increasing amount of carbs (both the good ones, and bad ones that came with too much sugar) didn't stop me later being diagnosed with autoimmune hypothyroidism .

As a general rule .. i do better when i'm eating protein for breakfast, and when i force myself to eat more protein and veg and good fats ,and less bread/grains ... but i have never been a 'lower carb' person anyway .. and i really struggle if i try to do it ... if i'm honest i'm a bread addict, and always have been .

If there was a tuesday evening group for "Crusty Bread and Marmaladeoholics Annonymous" i'd be a regular ...

[DippyDame in reply to tattybogle]

My favourites....can I join?

[tattybogle in reply to DippyDame]

yes

[Charlie-Farley in reply to tattybogle]

Tatty DippyDame

If I bring a jar of Tiptrees can I join in with my gluten-free bread? 🙏🤣

[tattybogle in reply to Charlie-Farley]

yes alright , we'll let you in with your weird bread , but only if you smother it in real butter thick enough to see your teeth marks in.

[Charlie-Farley in reply to tattybogle]

But of course! 🤣

[DippyDame in reply to tattybogle]

Yum!

[nellie237 in reply to tattybogle]

I'm so jealous. I dream of real bread, not the cardboard I have to eat.😞

[DippyDame]

Bottom line....A high carb diet ( any carbs) will not cure hypothyroidism!

I'm sorry you feel " we don't get it, "or that we don't "seem to have understood my ( your) question."

If eating increased amounts of carbs " cured hypothyroid problems" then there would be no need for patients to jump through hoops to achieve appropriate treatment.

We would all head for the nearest bakery ( or in my case chocolate shop)instead!

In any case a hypothyroid patient is very likely to experience weight gain so adding more calories would not be advice a medic would give.....you asked.

Where did you source this information?

[crabapple in reply to DippyDame]

Dippy Dame, see fiftyone's previous post where she says someone she knows cured himself...

[Jazzw in reply to crabapple]

And as I’ve just replied on that post, I doubt it’s a cure. Could potentially be a period of remission but I don’t think it’s likely to be a lasting cure. A high carb diet will on the other hand probably bring on insulin resistance eventually. Can’t win.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

More likely with autoimmune thyroid disease (hashimoto’s) to develop gluten intolerance and/or dairy intolerance

So many Hashimoto’s patients are on gluten free diet and/or dairy free diet.

Approx 80% Hashimoto’s patients find strictly gluten free diet helps or is essential

around 60-70% Hashimoto’s patients find dairy free is necessary

There’s evidence that Very low carb diet and/or extreme dieting reduces conversion of Ft4 to Ft3

We need adequate calories for conversion

[humanbean]

Some things I have decided [about myself] with no proof whatsoever, based on my own experiences :

1) Hypothyroidism results in lowered energy levels.

2) If the body has too little energy then perhaps this creates cravings for food to try and force people to take on more "fuel".

3) A personal anecdote - when my iron and/or ferritin levels are low I crave carbs AND protein. I was discharged from hospital in my early teens after being severely ill and I piled on enormous amounts of weight after it. I discovered when I bought my GP medical records (in my 50s i.e. 40 years later) that I was anaemic when I was discharged, and my GP was asked to treat me for it. It would appear that this note on my records wasn't read by anyone and I remember I wasn't treated for the anaemia. It was another 2 or 3 years before it was discovered that I was anaemic and I got given iron supplements. My appetite and my weight both slowly started to reduce once I was treated. It took a lot longer for weight to reduce than it did to go on (now, there's a surprise), but five years later I'd lost about three stone from my peak weight, and was well within the healthy weight range for my height.

[nellie237 in reply to humanbean]

I agree with you HB. I put on weight in the months leading up to coeliac dx. I'm sure that it was due to my body trying to find some energy from somewhere.

[radd]

fiftyone,

The only thing I can think of is (s)he was previously calories deficient and their thyroid is therefore grateful for some carbs, any carbs, and has began to function better. Maybe not for long term though as high carbs encourages insulin resistance and makes us fat!

[Batty1]

I can’t eat too much carbs or I start to feel like Im weighted down and puffy looking.

[jjf255]

You have high glycemic carbs ( breads, pastas, cakes, etc) and you have low glycemic ( green veggies, green leafy veg. certain nuts, some low sugar fruits which are all higher fiber) So, carbs are not equal. Our bodies use them differently. If you have been told to add carbs, look for the low glycemic ones.

[PeppaBun]

I might get downvoted here but I would encourage you to look into Ray Peat and judge for yourself. He is a doctor and researcher and he encourages the consumption of carbs that are 1) easy to digest so that your body can metabolise them quickly, 2) easily usable by the liver to store as glycogen/for energy to convert T4 to t3.

He recommends the following carb sources:

- Lots of ripe juicy fruit intake for fructose which is easily metabolised by the liver

- Milk and dairy for calcium and lactose (another form of sugar)

- Sugar in your coffee or tea (yes, straight white table sugar)

- Fruit juices high in natural fruit sugars (not from concentrate)

- Honey

- Well-cooked rice and potatoes as a source of carbs from starch

He recommends avoiding wheat due to endotoxins that may contribute to inflammation / difficulty for the body to obtain nutrients quickly.

He encourages a pro-metabolic diet that helps your body metabolise and use energy most efficiently, which basically includes the carb sources mentioned above, daily protein of at least 80g from a variety of sources (meat, cheese, milk, potatoes, seafood), daily intake of saturated fats from milk/dairy and a low/minimal amount of polyunsaturated fats. I'm trying this out on myself as an experiment and am finding that eating this way (with my own preference of certain food combinations over others) has increased my body temperature, pulse and energy levels, made my bowel movements more regular, reduced hair fall, reduced my psoriasis and eczema, improved my sleep, reduced my dark eye circles and generally given me a much better mood and creativity to go about my daily work.

FYI I had a terrible experience trying to manage my hypothyroidism with medication and I've tried every diet imaginable under the sun (low fat, low carb, carnivore, vegan, fasting etc.). This is the one that has given me the best results (in terms of my day-to-day well-being) in the shortest amount of time.

Of course I am just a 1-person experiment so take the advice above with a grain of salt (or sugar!), do your own research and see what works for YOU.

Good luck and I wish you GREAT HEALTH!

[Pandora70 in reply to PeppaBun]

My symptoms started out of the blue last Summer (fatigue, spells of debilitating cold, weak legs, puffy eyes, anxiety when away from home for shopping etc) and I was craving orange juice and sugar in tea and coffee. (I had never taken or even fancied Juice or sugar in drinks ever before). I suspected it might be the onset of diabetes and got tested. Not even pre- diabetes showed and I had good liver and kidney function and good calcium levels. But what did show up was a raised TSH with normal T4. A second test 3 months later and TSH had doubled. By then feeling really poorly like I might grind to a halt. A real nightmare.

Levo trial started in February and after a further blood test at 3 months have just had an increase in dosage. After about a month of Levo my cravings for quick release carbs faded and anxiety lessened. Second month I felt much more like myself. The third month symptoms gradually started to resurface - I assume the body gets used to the extra thyroxine and still needs more. GP says he aims to get a better TSH reading as it has only slightly improved.

I don’t pretend to understand all this but I feel there may well be a link with absorption of simple carbs. So I add myself to your One Person experiment and will defo read up on Ray Peat. Thank you!

[PeppaBun in reply to Pandora70]

Good luck! I had a similar experience with medication but unfortunately, under the misguided advice of my doctors, ended up on a rollercoaster ride experimenting with different dosages. I am now completely off any medications and my heartrate, body temperature and weight have stabilised (and continue to improve) in a more positive direction. I'm not 100% there yet - I still get exhausted for 3-4 days following an intense workout, and my sleep could use improvement - but I am happy with the way things are going. As always, trust your own body and instincts.

[Noelnoel in reply to PeppaBun]

Hi Peppa

I have a friend who swears by Ray Peat but the only recommendation I dared adopt was - before bed - the milk, honey and salt drink because diabetes is rife in my family and having been raised on a diet of sugar, I now steer clear of it. I will say though, I’ve had a hellish time with poor sleep for years and years and the first night I drank the above I didn’t need to get up to pee (was it the salt?) and so slept for longer. I still woke several times but much less so.. Also, I wake later as I’m less hungry in the mornings

In a round about way this gave me the courage to try night time dosing of my glandulars and now I sleep SO much better. It’s still nowhere near perfect but I’m much happier

[PeppaBun in reply to Noelnoel]

Hi Noelnoel, I'm glad to hear you feel better and that you are finding what works for you! Based on my research Ray Peat seems to claim that PUFAs (polyunsaturated fats) are the main culprit behind hormone disruption so I have minimised them as much as possible from my diet - possibly something to consider.

I truly feel so grateful to have found out about Ray's recommendations (honestly, the past 2 years before this were a nightmare for me, trying to figure things out) and I wish good health for you.

[Noelnoel in reply to PeppaBun]

Thank you and the same to you

Have avoided PUFAs for years but not sure it’s made any difference to anything but you never know!

[Bekindonline]

Hi! I don't know any medical drs that recommend a high carb diet these days. Most have told me to watch my carb intake, as too much causes insulin resistance. Too much insulin can interfer with sex hormones and is linked to dementia, diabetes and cancer. My endocrinologist recently checked my hormones (LH, FSH, testosterone) on a low carb diet and they have improved and are back in the normal ranges now. Result!! I think the key to helping thyroid function is being nutritionally sound and balancing blood sugar. That alone may not be enough for some though. It wasn't enough for me. I still need thyroid hormones.