Is this too much Armour, too soon?

[Jamima]

A month ago I had a consultation with a thyroidUK recommended doctor. She was fantastic and seemed to understand ALL the things I told her of my 4 year 'journey' with low thyroid hormones. She advised I start on 2 grains of armour (no titrating) and another consult and bloodwork is arranged for early August (8 weeks since first appointment). Before the armour I was taking 1 Metavive II and 2 Metavive I alongside 2 x Adrenavive I. She recommended that I continue the Adrenavive alongside the Armour as I've had low adrenal symptoms and test results for the past couple of years. I haven't had any problems moving onto armour, in fact it seems like a 'smoother' treatment for me, but in the past 4-5 days (I've been using it for 4 weeks), I've begun to feel really weak. Is this a sign of too much too soon? Any other advice welcome from seasoned NDT users.

[pennyannie]

Hello Jamima :

It could be too much too soon since you didn't titrate up your dose - as you say -

Did you experience any symptoms when having both Metavive and the 2 grains Armour in your body throughout the first couple of weeks ?

It could be that your body has now fully ' lost ' the support of the previous treatment option Metavive -

and the 2 grains are still ' bedding in ' as NDT needs time to settle in the body and 4 weeks too short a time.

What were your bench mark readings of T3 and T4 before switching to 2 grains ?

[Jamima in reply to pennyannie]

Thanks pennyannie - yes, I wondered about the 'bedding in' thing as I felt great the 1st 2 weeks, thought it was all sorted and ticketyboo, and 'lost support' is exactly how it feels. I've just checked my last blood tests as posted on here and realised I was using 50 levo, 6t3 and 5-10mg hydrocortisone. I've switched between levo and metavive over the past few years. They were taken just a couple of weeks before the appointment and were:

TSH: (0.27-4.2) 0.034

FT4 (12-22) 14.5

FT3 (3.1-6.8) 4.6

Previous to this bloodtest on no thyroid meds, same range as above:

TSH: 2.81

FT4: 12.7

FT3: 3.9

[pennyannie in reply to Jamima]

When you say no thyroid meds - do you mean these results are with no Metavive :

What did the thyroid doctor say about Hydrocortisone - to stay on it - or come off it -

I don't know about how and what this does myself - sorry :

So a couple of weeks before the appointment you were taking 50mcg T4 + 6mcg T3 and 5/10 mcg Hydrocortisone -

2 grains Armour works out as 18 mcg T3 + 78 mcg T4 :

How are your ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D ?

What about dropping back 1/2 a grain and seeing if you feel any better -

If you feel more comfortable stay there - if not try increasing back up by 1/2 the half grain after a week or two ?

Thinking on ??

[Jamima in reply to pennyannie]

Thanks pennyannie - the 2nd results were with no meds at all, I'd stopped all thyroid meds for around 8 weeks as I felt so unwell and tested to see where I was, I think that was back in March this year. I then re-started levo/t3/HC as above and tested again 7/8 weeks later so I had a result to show the doc. The doc recommended I continue with the adrenavive alongside the armour as she suspected that the armour solo might make me crash, I've crashed in the past without adrenal support. This feels like adrenal weakness which makes me wonder if the dose is just too high, too soon and I've missed the so-called 'sweet spot'. I understand I might need to end up on 2 grains but wondered if I might be better to dial it back by 1/2 a grain and take it from there, so your suggestion is also where my thinking is. My vits and ferritin were all good last test and will be tested again beg august.

[pennyannie in reply to Jamima]

Ok then - so my adrenals are also ' shot ' ( RAI damage ) and I take bovine adrenal gland with no measured content - much like Adrenivive - and I started these 2 years before I switched to NDT - and I know they make a difference to me - and still take 2 capsules every day and its now 8 years later

What did the doctor say about taking the Hydrocortisone with the trial of Armour ?

Ok then - dial back a bit and see how you go :

Are you monitoring on blood pressure, pulse and body temperature AM and PM - while finding your dose - I found this useful - my blood pressure and pulse remained stable but tracked my temperature rise from 35.4 to 36.6 where it tends to be hover years on.

[Jamima in reply to pennyannie]

Thank you, I was advised by the doc to continue with adrenavive alongside armour, she didn't mention hydrocortisone although I did tell her I'd used it. Tbh, I'm not entirely comfortable using HC and if I can manage with a bovine glandular, I'd prefer that. I'm not monitoring bp but my temp has definitely risen, I check only sporadically but this morning it was 36.7 which is significantly better as I used to hover just under 36. I'll drop back half a grain and monitor bp and temp more closely. Thanks again.

[ZeilaJee]

my experience on Armour is to move dosage up extremely slowly - I split my pills when doing this. It really does take me weeks to settle into a new dose. I would also start smaller and gradually move up when your body says it would like some more. I find temp is a good indicator.

[Jamima in reply to ZeilaJee]

Thankyou ZeilaJee - I haven’t really felt too bad until the past week or so, but something isn’t quite right and I think you’re right about reducing a bit. I’m also going to split the dose as my morning cortisol is very low so I think the impact of thyroid hormone isn’t good at that time, at least it seems that way. Thanks again.