T3 or NDT first?!

[Saz-J]

Hi everyone.

I currently see a private doctor for all things thyroid. I am taking ndt (thyroid s) and t3 (thybon). I am in need of decreasing my meds because I'm actually 'hyperthyroid' at the moment. Iv lost a tonne of weight. Struggling to sleep, and iv been sent for a heart scan because they think I may have a murmur.

I take 2 grains of ndt & 5mcg of t3 in the morning and 1 grain & 5mg in the afternoon. I have already removed the 5mcg t3 from the afternoon and i'm needing to reduce again, however I'm unsure if I should remove the morning t3 or 1 of my grains of ndt from the morning 🤔

I have emailed my doctor to advise but he can take a while to reply sometimes so hoping it's OK to ask on here. I'm thinking it would be remove the morning t3 before reducing my amount of ndt

Many thanks

[DippyDame]

So your daily dose is 114mcg T4 + 37mcg T3

That's a substantial dose.

You say this feels like overmedication ( not hyperthyroid!)

Weight loss, racing heart rate and poor sleep are signs of overmedication, as are hand tremors, heat intolerance and loose bowels for example

You are correct you need to reduce your dose!

It really depends on what the body needs at cellular level but I'd be inclined to initially reduce the morning dose by half a grain and see how you feel after 6 weeks and if nothing improves remove the other half grain ( am then I grain + 5mcg T3 and pm as before)

Others may pop in with different suggestions!

I'm afraid trial and error plays a big part and we need to listen to our body.

[Saz-J in reply to DippyDame]

I was actually on more t3 than that aswell mind and never made it upto the full amount I could have potentially been. My private endo said when I asked him about it that I could take away my whole amount of t3 because I'm on a low dose.

I no longer take t3 in the pm. Only in the am with my 2 grains of ndt. So I'm not sure if you mean keep the t3 in the pm with the 1 grain and remove it from the am dose aswell as decrease by .5 of a grain in the am? I do apologise if iv read that wrong. I'm diabetic and this whole thing is literally ruining my life diabetes wise. I am so insulin sensitive that any amount of insulin makes my hypo. But I'm on new kit which gives In the background itself so I'm currently sat in bed having a hypo. Speaking to my diabetes team about being a diabetic who can't have insulin hasn't been very successful in any sense as you can imagine 🙈

[pennyannie]

Hello Saz-J :

I'd be inclined to loose the T3 first - as you should see a lessening in symptoms sooner :

Are you with Hashimoto's Auto Immune disease ?

What did you last increase ?

There is nothing on your bio :

[DippyDame in reply to pennyannie]

Just curious....

if 1/2 grain of NDT was dropped that would lose 4.5mcgs T3 and 19mcg T4 would that combination not help reduce the overmedication (bearing in mind Saz-J is a poor convertor anyway) almost as quickly as dropping 5mcg T3... and it would reduce some of the T4 that is "idling" in the background

You say losing the T3 would reduce symptoms quicker than reducing NDT. What actually causes this?

Has this anything to do with T3-only being synthetic and T3 in NDT coming from a natural source.?

And, are the T3 molecules in NDT bound to thyroglobulin which first needs to be digested to release the hormone... rather than Free as in liothyronine?

My brain has gone to sleep....I'm off to make a cherry cake!!

Thanks pennyannie

[pennyannie in reply to DippyDame]

I 'm sure your brain hasn't gone to sleep !!

Well having flirted with T3 and now stable on NDT - I found T3 much faster acting and it felt much more powerful -

and yes - you are right in that you tend to get a slower, softer ' ride ' with NDT because the thyroid hormones are attached to thyroglobulin and more slowly digested and released into the blood stream.

The content of the NDT is ' more ' but I question how effective it is - it's just my opinion and I'm interested to learn - what was last medication introduced into the mix - as logic tells me - this is the first thing to be stopped and then I'd wait a week or two and see how things pan out.

As for the cherry cake - shall I PM you my address for a slice or two ??

I'm with Graves post RAI thyroid ablation 2005 :

[Saz-J in reply to pennyannie]

I was thinking this. Get rid of the t3 then make changes to my ndt if needed. I was told last time I had a private appointment that I was 'pooling' due to cortisol issues so I was given supplements to help with that but iv stopped them too because they were making me feel worse. I'm hashimotos. Last time my antibodies were tested they had gone from 70 I think it was yo up over 1000 again because I was poorly for a good while. I'm also type 1 diabetic. Have fibromyalgia. Chronic fatigue syndrome and of course rhe hypothyroid.

I need to update my bio! I keep forgetting 🙈 last I increased was my t3..I added another 5mcg to my pm so that's why I removed that before anything else. I figured to work backwards would make more sense

[pennyannie in reply to Saz-J]

Yes - good idea - work backwards :

You have a lot going on :

There are some with Hashimoto's who just can't get on with NDT as it's introducing further natural thyroid into their treatment regime, which upsets their immune system further - causing increased antibody levels-could this be you - how long have you been on NDT and are you aware of an increase in your immune system response to this treatment option ?

[Saz-J in reply to pennyannie]

I take ldn to help. I'm on a very low dose though as I can't handle much of it (0.9ml). If I take anymore the fatigue is crippling! Iv been on ndt now for years, I'd say probably about 5 6 years maybe even a little longer!

[pennyannie in reply to Saz-J]

Ok then, so I guess the other treatment option of a synthetic T3 / T4 combo has been considered. tried and ruled out ?

Keep us in the loop as to what works this time around.

[Saz-J in reply to pennyannie]

Never tried. I was on levothyroxine for 12 years. Found ndt and was on that for a number of years before the t3 was added. My 1 endo has mentioned a possibility of doing levo and t3 (aswell as lecturing me about going to a private doctor) but anytime I ask he says 'not yet' so Iv given up on that. I was under a professor Dyan who has done alot of his life's work on the important of t3. He was the one who started me on ndt. He found ndt a better option than to have levo and a t3 but I guess that could have changed by now. I don't convert. I don't think I ever really did so t3 is a must for me. I personally would prefer to do t4 and t3 as seperate tablets as I do feel control would be a bit easier to achieve, but I don't think the option will present itself l

[pennyannie in reply to Saz-J]

Well the options are there and more people are being prescribed a T3/T4 combo on te NHS than those precribed NDT and if going private it is your choice - the specialist may have a preference but should be open and knowledgeable enough to manage all treatment option.

Many find a T3/T4 combo easier to manage -

I'm with Graves and post RAI thyroid ablation and find NDT much softer on my body and read this is because the hormones are attached to thyroglobulin and more slowly broken down, digested and absorbed into the blood stream - which makes more sense - as on a T3/T4 combo I felt a bit turbo charged - though having said that I know I didn't stay in it long enough to find my own best ratio of T3 and T4.

Well - you weren't mucked about by any old endo were you - and were seen by one of leading specialist in this field - with Dr.Pete Taylor at Cardiff now forging ahead this vital research into synthetic thyroid hormone combination treatments.

PS. Have you signed the petition on here - regarding the research work at Cardiff ?

I've just highlighted your name on the relevant post - save you searching for it.

[Saz-J in reply to pennyannie]

Sorry I'm late replying. The last week has got away from me and iv had days of total crashing and being bed ridden 😴 Ooo iv never heard of Dr Taylor. I wonder if he works alongside Prof Dayan 🤔 no i havent signed I will take a look now thank you 😊

[pennyannie in reply to Saz-J]

Sorry to read that :

Try and just pace yourself ;

I know - easier said then done :