Liothyronine Freedom of Information to Imperial Healthcare Trust

[jimh111]

I have submitted a Freedom of Information request to Imperial College ICB about their 'Liothyronine Withdrawal Clinic'. See whatdotheyknow.com/request/... .

[pennyannie]

Good Luck :

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK]

Thank you, Jim.

[humanbean]

I wasn't aware that this clinic had come out into the open with regard to it's purpose and become honest with its naming.

Thank you for doing the FOI request. At least they are forced by law to answer you. Whether they will be honest is another thing entirely.

[Manjushri]

I feel a private appointment with this consultant might be worth booking to chat to him directly.

See why he thinks he should withdraw people from a hormone that makes them well?!

[TSH110 in reply to Manjushri]

…he’s a sadist?

[Divine1990]

Thank you. Very interested to see what the heck is going on at this so called 'clinic '🤔

[Alanna012]

Thank you!

[Fifteen]

I think you know that it was Meeran who signed the 'edict' (his word) forbidding the prescribing of liothyronine with dire warnings for any doctors who ignored the edict.

[jimh111 in reply to Fifteen]

I'm not aware of this, can you point me to it.

[Fifteen in reply to jimh111]

How do I send you a copy of his letter. I found it during a clean out of my files

[jimh111 in reply to Fifteen]

You could email it to me at my website email [e-mail] .I'm in the process of writing up a complaint to the GMC, it will take a couple of weeks or so.

[TaraJR]

Have you seen this video of Prof M before? I've only found it today

youtube.com/watch?v=Vz64oLB...(Not working as expected?)

[jimh111 in reply to TaraJR]

It's not working. Can you tell me how you found it or quote the link somehow. I have seen some of his videos including an awful one that has been taken down that I reported here healthunlocked.com/thyroidu... .

[RedApple Administrator in reply to jimh111]

See if this works youtube.com/watch?v=Vz64oLB...(Not working as expected?)

[jade_s in reply to RedApple]

😱😡

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to RedApple]

Just how on earth can the GHQ-10 be objective?

It is a series of questions the answers to which will OF COURSE and INEVITABLY be subjective.

(Apologies for much use of emphasis such as bold and underlining today.)

[FancyPants54 in reply to helvella]

No apology needed. This rubbish gets us right in the feels.

[jade_s in reply to helvella]

I dunno he knows how to draw a sine wave the guy seems like a top researcher to me /s 😖

[jimh111 in reply to RedApple]

Yes I've seen this pseudo science. I will give a reply later

[jimh111 in reply to RedApple]

I originally saw a different video which had some additional content but has been withdrawn because a patient requested it (it had some of their data). In my complaint I give a detailed critique of this content. A couple of points. The sinusoidal graph stuff is nonsense, it makes assumptions that the patients' response will coincide with the frequency of the graph and above all that they will see a GP or endocrinologist within a short time after their request. Much of the video contains inaccuracies which are too detailed to go into, the biggest being the statement that every tissue is able to convert T4 to T3. As part of my complaint I've asked the trust to correct the false training their medics have received. I doubt they will.

[tattybogle in reply to TaraJR]

i think it needs some 'thinking people' to add some more comments on u tube.. there's only one at the moment and it looks very lonely .....

[tattybogle in reply to tattybogle]

there's another one here .. a section on it is taking about thyroid in relation to fertility treatment . haven't listened yet.... thyroid section starts at about 1:21:42

edit it's not prof meeran doing the talk about pregnancy, can't see who it is.

youtu.be/GjmcPfXtggU?t=4907(Not working as expected?)

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to tattybogle]

Posting his videos would, in the USA, be unconstitutional. Having watched the one posted by RedApple the 8th amendment applies:

The Eighth Amendment to the United States Constitution states that "cruel and unusual punishments [shall not be] inflicted."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruel...

[RedApple Administrator in reply to helvella]

Don't we have an equivalent here? Or is it absolutely fine for our endos to inflict cruel and unusual punishments? Or maybe it's not so unusual a punishment, given the attitude to thyroid patients. So that makes it ok?

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to RedApple]

Some difficulties there due to the current political situation and trying to avoid entering the, umm, discussions about related issues.

Was much safer for me to keep to the famous USA statement.

But the endo attitudes are far from OK!

[tattybogle in reply to helvella]

lol

ok i'll stop.

i watched it for you .. it led me to a draft of some new thyroid /pregnancy guidelines here : healthunlocked.com/thyroidu....

[tattybogle in reply to tattybogle]

from the Endicrine Masterclass video in my reply above ...

@ 1:56:18

the presenter ( not meeran ?) is answering questions .. judging by the laughter , the withdrawal clinic appears to be an 'in' joke :

" what would be your approach to leaving patients on liothyronine during pregnancy, would you continue the drug ?... i hope i've answered that .. what i would do with any patient on liothyronine , (inaudible) who wanted to go to liothyronine ...(inaudible) because i refuse to see them , and i refer them to professor Meerans excellent liothyronine withdrawal clinic (burst of laughter from somewhere) for which he'll be getting a sainthood ....."

ironically~ if you run the subtitles , 'liothyronine withdrawal clinic' ~ comes up as Lifeline withdrawal clinic .

[FancyPants54]

On the one hand we have Bianco's new book acknowledging the need of T3, and on the other we have this "withdrawal" clinic! It makes no sense at all.

[BiscuitBaby]

I have just watched the first video. Don't think I can watch the second! The condescending way he refers to both his patients and his own colleagues in both the private sector and nhs, (many of whom do both) who do prescribe t3 is quite staggering! He's cherry picked trials to prove his own point! If t3 was such a placebo even taking small amounts would work and patients wouldn't need to tinker with doses to get the dose exactly right for them! I wonder how he explains away the success of NDT used for so many years prior to the manufacture of levo? I also wonder whether the spellbound students behind him actually question his logic? I don't think they do!!! It's very worrying!

[jimh111]

I've received a (vague) response whatdotheyknow.com/request/... .

Note the sentence:

All patients are informed that this is a T3 withdrawal clinic and those who want to continue on their drugs are free to do so.

I've written to PALS at Imperial and asked that they write to my GP informing them that my NHS liothyronine prescription should be reinstated. I doubt they will. My experience is that patients are not informed their T3 will be withdrawn. The responses are mostly lies but good evidence for future action.

[Fifteen]

Done