Any Recommendations on Thyroid diets or books?

[dayoff]

I am currently trying everything to reduce my thyroid symptoms and resolve insomnia. Amongst other things I've also been trying to understand which foods to avoid and what to eat. What supplements to take and when. However, online searching leads to one thing contradicting the other. Tearing out what hair I have left! Is there a general consensus on here on a specific diet or book to follow (or not to follow)? Thanks in advance

[Aurealis]

no book to recommend, sorry. But from personal experience…

Daily 12 hour fast improves sleep, as does supplementing Vitamin D and or magnesium.

Avoid white bread unless toasted…

[ColdBanana in reply to Aurealis]

How does toasting it help?

[Aurealis in reply to ColdBanana]

no science here, just experience

I assume that whatever doesn’t suit me in white bread is broken down by toasting? Gluten?

[SlowDragon Administrator]

First step is to get your vitamin levels optimal this should help improve conversion rate of Ft4 to Ft3

Recent test suggests you perhaps need to fine tune levothyroxine dose up a little

Which brand of levothyroxine are you taking and do you always get same brand

Have you had coeliac blood test

Only 5% of Hashimoto’s patients test positive for coeliac but a further 81% of Hashimoto’s patients who try gluten free diet find noticeable or significant improvement or find it’s essential

If trialling gluten free it does need to be absolutely gluten free to be effective. There’s no point being “almost gluten free “

Similarly few months later consider trying dairy free too. Approx 50-60% find dairy free beneficial

Your ferritin is on low side so look at increasing iron rich foods in your diet too

[dayoff in reply to SlowDragon]

Thanks SlowDragon. I have ordered all the supplements I lack. Eating in accordance too. I have had coeliac tests and they were fine. I have also (just) started adding another 25mg every other day (as you advised a while ago; starting with 12.5mg increase). Await the doctor okaying the prescription request for the extra 25mg so don't want to run out. Have recently changed from 75mg to 100mg so the brand has changed but i'll keep an eye on it. They are tucked up in my bedside drawer next to sleeping husband right now and can't remember the new brand! I am seeing more and more about Gluten Free helping as I search online. 81% is a hugely convincing number. Can't argue with that so will give it a go.

[Hashiboy in reply to SlowDragon]

Hi SlowDragon hope all is good with you. Sorry to jump in on dayoff s thread but that figure of 81% is amazing. Do you have a reference for that I can take a look at? I've thought of going gluten free but it seemed like a big sacrifice and alot of effort but for that level of improvement it might be worth it. Weirdly I found out this year that my hypothyroidism isn't autoimmune (so I need a new name to post under) do you think the gluten advice applies when the underlying cause isn't autoimmunity? Thanks

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Hashiboy]

Are you sure your hypothyroidism isn’t autoimmune

Had both TPO and TG antibodies tested

Have you had ultrasound scan of thyroid

[Hashiboy in reply to SlowDragon]

Hi there SlowDragon I’ve never had an ultrasound but I changed NHS consultants last year and they re tested my TPO antibodies. I was surprised to see that they were at an extremely low level, well below the cut off for Hashimoto's. The levels were not even marginal or slightly elevated. I’m seeing my consultant in August and want to ask what he thinks causes my hypothyroidism.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Hashiboy]

Doesn’t matter if TPO antibodies are now negative. If they were positive in the past you still have Hashimoto’s

If never tested positive for TPO antibodies, significant minority of Hashimoto’s patients only have high TG antibodies

You would have to test TG privately. NHS only tests TG antibodies if TPO antibodies are high

If you can get GP to test vitamins then cheapest option for just TSH, FT4 and FT3 and includes BOTH TPO and TG antibodies -£29 

randoxhealth.com/at-home/Th...

20% of Hashimoto’s patients never have high thyroid antibodies

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

 

Paul Robson on atrophied thyroid - especially if no TPO antibodies 

 paulrobinsonthyroid.com/cou...

Do you have family members who have any autoimmune diseases

Autoimmune disorders often run in families as it’s genetic predisposition

[Hashiboy in reply to SlowDragon]

Thanks, really helpful to know. I'll get both retested and check old results. Think I originally had elevated tpo

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Hashiboy]

So you definitely have Hashimoto’s

[Hashiboy in reply to SlowDragon]

👍

[Hashiboy in reply to SlowDragon]

 SlowDragon Hello there, hope all is good with you. could I please get a bit more help? Following your advice I checked back on my results for antibodies. I found this

TPO antibodies Jan 2019 - 264IU/ml diagnosis Hashimotos

Thyroid auto antibody Jan 2023 – 32IU/ml below cut off of 100IU/ml 

Does that mean I still have a Hashimotos diagnosis. And any ideas why the antibodies dropped so much?

I’m Confused?!?!?

In fact this is so weird I’ll post it widely to see if anyone else can shed a bit of light.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Hashiboy]

Yes ….if you have high thyroid antibodies at any test, even if now antibodies are below range …..you still have Hashimoto’s

Antibodies are the vacuum cleaners cleaning up after an autoimmune attack …they are not the disease

Common for antibodies to drop when on thyroid replacement therapy, as TSH drops lower ….and especially if on gluten free diet and/or dairy free diet

[Anthea55]

Go to the ThyroidUK website at thyroiduk.org/

There's a section on "Further Reading".

A book that has helped many of us is Dr Barry Durrant Peatfield's book "Your Thyroid and how to keep it healthy"

[Jaydee1507 Administrator]

Unfortunately there is no one diet book, and yes the choices can be overwhelming. Most diets aim to reduce inflammation and hopefully give a little more energy like Dr Myhills paleo/keto diet.

As you've already discovered there is a lack of absorption of nutrients from food so despite eating a great diet you can still end up with deficencies and low levels of vitamins. It's still really important though to eat those good foods in wide variety as they will be contributing to your gut microbiome which when out of kilter can make you feel awful.

I've put together a list of things that helped me that you can try one at a time to see what benefits you. Improvements in gut function can be slow, so give things a good try for a while.

▻Try a low FODMAP elimination diet. monashfodmap.com/ibs-centra...

▻Try adding a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar (must contain the ‘Mother’, see label) to a glass of water before your main meal. This helps acidify the stomach.

▻Reduce sugar and processed (especially ultra processed) foods, they feed the bad bacteria.

▻Add probiotic foods such as natural yogurt, kefir, kombucha, sauerkraut, kimchi, pickles. Dairy free versions are available in supermarkets or online. Ask staff to help you find the dairy free section, some supermarkets have a better selection than others. You can also make your own versions of these at home including water kefir. Many people swear by a glass of kefir a day.

▻Eat the rainbow. This includes a variety of meats including game (if omnivore), vegetables and fruit.

A good overview of things that help gut function: joinzoe.com/learn/how-to-im...

You may find that it takes getting your levo dose to a more optimal level to improve insomnia.

[Megams in reply to Jaydee1507]

~A great response and enjoyed reading - thank you very much. I must say I do 99.9% of all you have mentioned. A question I would like to ask please is the insomnia aspect - does having an underactive thyroid create insomnia and if so why does this occur?

Many thanks in advance~

[dayoff in reply to Megams]

Hi Megams, I'm not the best person to explain things, I am only just getting to grips with it all after finding this site. I stupidly gave up when doctors told me my levels were fine. However, one thing I know for sure is that my insomnia started along with my thyroid symptoms 20 years ago. Before I was treated with Levo, I hardly slept. I was exhausted but even when I was supposedly asleep, I was aware of everything in the room. My brain felt like a radio, on all the time and slightly out of tune. Never shut up! I wasn't even 'thinking' anything if that makes sense. Even just songs stuck in my head. Too exhausted to open my eyes or move but couldn't get into a deep sleep. It was a weird feeling and when my levels are way out, it comes back. This is when my levels are very bad. Even if they are just slightly out, It's not as weird but I ping awake and that's me. I don't fully understand the reasons but conversion from T4 to T3, or even just low T3 seems to be the culprit . Despite going from 75mg to 100 mg i'm still not right. My T3 has improved but still low. This is why i'm overhauling my lifestyle and trying everything to utilise T3 properly. I am 46 with no real menopause symptoms yet but I have been trying HRT just to see but it's done nothing to help. I've been on HRT since before Christmas. Moved on to pregnenolone now as I don't think I need serious HRT yet.

[terebol in reply to dayoff]

I know, exactly, what you are talking about as I could be a mirror image of your sleep/busy brain. (I have had 1 song stuck in my brain for 3 weeks!!!) When I started doing my research on Ord's/Hashimotos's some 30+yrs ago, I ran across a "laundry list" of all the problems one can experience w/this disease and 95% of the health issues were same for hypo as hper. My FT3 is just a bit below where it is optimal for me. I am having to figure a way to get that extra wee bit of T3 w/o going too high. Lowest liiothyronine dose is too high & the pill is not scored. In the meantime, I take L-theanine

[terebol in reply to dayoff]

One more thing to add -- because the NDT I was on for 10yrs was pulled from the market (in US) I gave synthetic T4/T3 a go for 9mos. I felt very poorly even though labs looked good - optimal #s compared to optimal #s when I was on Nature-throid. Went back to a different NDT and I felt a huge improvement w/in a very short period of time. Still trying to fine tune the T3 as I mentioned in my first reply. Maybe levo might not be best treatment for you?

[dayoff in reply to terebol]

I've never been well so I believe it isn't. I don't know where to get NDT though or how to use it. It was an absolute no from doctors. I've asked a few about it.

[terebol in reply to dayoff]

Gheesh, that is too bad that you cannot locate a physician willing to think outside of the (medical textbook) box. The health system here in the US has its own issues, but I had no problem dropping physicians until I found ones who saw beyond TSH. There is a NDT on the market here in US that does not require rx, but I don't know anyone who has used it, nor do I remember the name. If you have an interest, I read it on the sttm website in a q&a and could pose a query as to the name of it

[dayoff in reply to terebol]

Hi terebol, The NHS is very limited and even if you see a private consultant (not easy), he or she also works for the NHS, following all the same kind of limited guidelines. You may get more blood tests and you may get looked at a little closer but at the end of the day, they don't stray far from the limited guidelines either. Preventative care and after care is unheard of. Vitamins are rarely mentioned, unless you bring them up. My mother, mother-in-law and I all have hypothyroidism. We have all had times where our blood results were way off the chart and nobody bothered to phone us. We just found out later via another GP during conversation. You are limited to to their collective narrow view of thyroid disease. There is one synthetic cheap pill that looks good on paper (if you follow the very wrong ranges) and unless there are some very obvious issues, like a cancerous thyroid or you are in a coma, T3 is a distant dream. I exaggerate - a little. I feel most doctors I speak to know very little other than T4. When I start going on about T3 and use silly words like 'optimal' and 'vitamins' they look like you've started rambling incoherent nonsense and you need to leave. Does not compute. That's just my view though!

[terebol in reply to dayoff]

HaHa -- that is why I dumped a few drs. in the past. My thought is they don't know what to do w/the data over and above TSH and maybe T4, not FT4. The last dr. I had conversation with about the optimal, etc. she put her hands to her head and said, I feel like you are telling me what to do!!! Yep, I was! I think also, an ego thing on their part. Sorry you have such a time w/getting good meds for yourself

[dayoff in reply to terebol]

Oh wow that female Doctor let her emotions run away with her there. If you were rude you'd have said 'AND THERE'S THE PROBLEM RIGHT THERE'.

[terebol in reply to dayoff]

!! I figured I'd better hold my tongue!!

[Megams in reply to dayoff]

~Hmmm.... sorry to read of your awful insomnia - creates such vast array of health issues cascading onto many levels. You have my upmost sympathy and sincerely hope someone with expert knowledge can assist you.

I do know insomnia well and decided to be a friend rather than foe as I was always the loser. So started with a Respiratory Physican who specializes in folk like us. Nothing gained here but worth the effort. Use CPAP at night is half my challenge - I can't change that & have no other options.

Thank you for explaining your T4 & T3 - I don't understand it either but know that the T3 I started at Christmas still indicates that my level is low with bloods done this week. I take T3 alongside my T4 (Synthroid) in morning and will pursue answers this week.

I entered menopause aged 55 - enjoy not being "there" as it means your body is still ticking over doing all that nature intended - once changes start (for me) was when my health issues came to the fore ~

[Jaydee1507 Administrator in reply to Megams]

Thyroid hormone is required by every cell in the body to function well, hence widespread symptoms from different body systems. Sleep is usually controlled by the brain, and low levels of the active hormone T3 mean that it can't work like it should do.

Thats a very simple explanation and I'm sure someone more scientific could write an essay on it but I hope you get my drift.

My thyroid levels have dropped recenlty and my sleep is definitely suffering.

Medics often think of someone who is hypo as sleeping too much but we are all different and the opposite can be true. Just try not to stress too much over it, know that it will get better with more thyroid hormone and for the time being learn ways to cope with inomnia.

[Megams in reply to Jaydee1507]

~Hmmmm. ..thank you Jaydee - most enlightening and simply explained. That answers a lot of questions as my T3 is lowish - prx'd T3 pre Christmas 2022 - bloods revealed this week the levels still on low side so will follow up.

Glad I asked the Dr for bloods to be completed otherwise would be none the wiser

[TVOReason]

I ordered the book ‘Stop the thyroid madness’ and it gave me a lot of information and helped me understand a lot more

[Duchy82]

I can't help you on diet because besides avoiding fortified cereal and soy to some extend I haven't changed my diet. I did move taking my levothyroxine from morning to evening as I'd found a study at the time that suggested that that was closer to the normal circadian rhythm and that some hypothyroid patients do better with taking their meds at night. Changing to bed time taking of levo massively improved my sleep so that may be worth trying?

[Carrot_Top in reply to Duchy82]

That surprises me as I thought the thyroid meds give you energy. I think I took it later in the day one time and it affected my sleep.

[Duchy82 in reply to Carrot_Top]

If I remember correctly it doesn't work for everyone but is beneficial for a percentage of hypothyroid patients. It's not so much that thyroxine gives you energy as it makes energy useable by your cells, if that makes sense.

[Carrot_Top]

Book - Hashimoto's Thyroiditis: Lifestyle Interventions for Finding and Treating the ROOT CAUSE. I haven't read far, but she definitely says to stay away from gluten.

[Carrot_Top in reply to Carrot_Top]

I forgot the author - Isabella Wentz

[mstp]

One thing that I have found slightly improved things was having decaffenated drinks.