High morning cortisol and T3

[Jefner]

Original post

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Carried out a little research on high cortisol and taking T3 .

Back in 2016 pre. starting T3 , first Endo didn't want me to take it despite knowing my conversion was poor and levels low because he feared it would make my anxiety a lot worse because my waking cortisol levels were completely off the rails back then and it would have to be dosed very carefully. He just told me to go home and get my stress levels down.

Thinking back to what he said I believe he may have been right after all from what I have been reading today. I also read that it is not advisable to take T3 when you have adrenal issues.

"When cortisol levels are high, it signals the thyroid gland to stop producing as much thyroid hormone. Cortisol also restricts the conversion of the thyroid hormone T4 to the active thyroid hormone T3 elevating reverse T3 levels rather than converting "...which may well explain my old high RT3 test results.

And reading on Paul Robinson's site "T3 is more likely to stimulate cortisol production than T4. T3 helps to keep cortisol levels up as it stimulates the hypothalamic-pituitary system more than T4. This latter point is why thyroid medications that contain T3 often help to keep cortisol levels higher.

paulrobinsonthyroid.com/t3-...

As my waking levels are high again and I have always taken my first T3 dose before I get up, it may well explain why my morning anxiety is still pretty bad, despite only a small dose. As Paul Robinson states "T3 helps to keep cortisol levels higher" which is NOT a good thing for an already high level.

I always knew in the back of my mind my adrenals played a bigger part in what is going on with me than originally thought and as Paul Robinson said "they are in partnership" . I wish I had done more reading up on it now but I got so obsessed in trying to learn about everything, looking for answers, protocols that worked, I just made myself worse and gave up.

Taking into account of what I have found out, my conversion might be better if I take my T4 and first T3 dose well away from my high morning cortisol levels ie. moving from around 8-9am to maybe mid afternoon with my second T3 dose later in the evening?

Took my T4 at 8am this morning but instead of taking my first dose of T3 at the same time and go back to sleep for a couple of hours, I took my first dose at around 4pm this afternoon. Whether it's all in my mind and too soon but I did notice a slight difference in the level of my anxiety when I woke up in that it wasn't quite so severe and no hand tremors whilst reaching for my meds.

I know it's all trial and error but if I try moving my first T3 dose to the afternoon, logically it may help calm down my high morning cortisol levels instead of over stimulating my adrenals which, and in theory, if they are not overstimulated by the T3 anymore, my morning levels should lower which equals less stress on them and hopefully improved anxiety. Plus moving my T4 to later in the day (possibly nighttime), I may get a better conversion rate and may not need to up my T3 or need it at all? To be honest I hate the stuff and I KNOW it's making my anxiety worse. Even taking a small split dose I feel it stimulating

Has to be worth a try surely? Any thoughts please?

[arTistapple]

I hope someone has a go at answering this soon. Maybe unravelling it a bit. I too am attempting to educate myself about adrenals. Really what is the best support and what to expect? It seems as much a mystery to me as how my levo makes me feel. Intro of T3 was both wondrous and difficult. Reminded me of all the many years of so-called panic attacks before it changed to, in my case, more distinct heart symptoms. My ‘anxiety’ on intro of T3 was felt (and always was now that I come to think about it) in the evening and overnight. I am definitely going to get adrenals tested before I make any more decisions about levo/T3 changes. It’s a very interesting connection you have highlighted.

[TiggerMe]

Sounds like a good plan, do you know what your cortisol levels are for the rest of the day? It should be at its height in the morning but it can dramatically drop and be low the rest of the day.

I'd be inclined to take your T3 dose when it drops but before it possibly goes below range as they say T3 is easier to tolerate with a certain level of cortisol

Your blood cortisol of 602 is at the top end of the range, trouble is that shows total cortisol rather than free cortisol levels that the saliva test gives you.

It could well be by lunchtime you actually have low cortisol it changes that quickly and has caught a lot of people out assuming one high results means high all the time

[Wua13262348 in reply to TiggerMe]

I too hope someone has a go at unravelling this for you. Very interested to hear what someone knowledgeable in this area will say. Eoyore makes good points, but I can't offer any expertise on the matter. My 9a.m. cortisol reading was significantly high and over range when blood tested , but 15 mins later I was in bed , out for the count for at least 4 hours. I don't function at all at 9a.m. in the morning. I too ,wonder , if I actually have low cortisol. I know I have a "flipped " cortisol rhythm. Always a night owl and always have had trouble getting up in the morning.

[Jefner in reply to Wua13262348]

same