Ugh got tires of those soft muscles

[Eyadlaymoun]

hi .. does anybody got muscles that like a dough ? And if your levels are normal what could it be ? This happened i remember after depression and took antidepressants for around a week or so and stopping it suddenly ! I just dont feel my muscles when even working out i feel they dont have a life on them just hanging like piece of meat .. TSH AND ALL LEVELS NORMAL

[RedApple Administrator]

Eyadlaymoun 'TSH AND ALL LEVELS NORMAL'

When it comes to thyroid hormones, 'normal' is not the same as optimal. We are all individuals and what might be 'normal' for one isn't necessarily normal for another.

Please post your most recent thyroid test results and say what medication/s with does that you are taking.

[Jaydee1507 Administrator]

Normal results mean nothing. Do you have a copy of your latest results to share with us? You are legally entitled to a printed copy of your results, ask at GP reception. In England you can get the NHS app and ask for permission to see your blood results on that.

When hypo we get low stomach acid which means we cannot absorb vitamins well from our food, regardless of a great diet. For thyroid hormone to work well we need OPTIMAL levels of vitamins. Have you recently or could you ask your GP to test levels of ferritin, folate, B12 & D3? Private tests are available, see link for companies offering private blood tests & discount codes, some offer a blood draw service at an extra cost. thyroiduk.org/help-and-supp...

[Eyadlaymoun in reply to Jaydee1507]

hi and thanks for reply.

TSH is 1.2

T3/T4 was optimal but dont remember the numbers .

Vitamins (i attached picture) and vitamin D3 also great.

I am just wondering where is the loss of muscle feelings/fullness come from ? I workout but more i work out they keep doughti feel they dont recover and they lost there tone

Results

[Jaydee1507 Administrator in reply to Eyadlaymoun]

A TSH of 1.2 is not necessarily optimal for you. Some people need it just under 1.

Seeing the free T4 and FT3 is very important if you could find those numbers? Its rare for GPs to test FT3 even and it is the active hormone. 10-20% of hypo people are not able to convert T4 to T3 and need added T3 to their levo to feel well as well as optimising vitamins.

No result for ferritin.

If you have less than optimal thyroid levels (especially FT3) and also vitamin levels your muscles will not be able to work well as well as many other systems in your body struggling.

Do you know if you had positive thyroid antibodies? Many with autoimmune thyroid disease aka Hashimoto's benefit from a gluten free diet. A smaller percentage of those also need to remove dairy from their diet to feel well.

All of these things contribute to your body working as well as it can do with hypothyroidism.

[Eyadlaymoun in reply to Jaydee1507]

here other tests.

And i do positive antibodies but wasnt much .. was 56.

But when taking levo they disappeared.

my food doesnt have much gluteen

I tried gluten and dairy free but still symptoms didnt go away.

Just question:Is there any other possibles causing those symptoms if not thyroid ? Specifically neurological? I feel i start getting those after too 5-HTP pills and did hair transplant..

Results

[Jaydee1507 Administrator in reply to Eyadlaymoun]

Free T4 (fT4) 2.4 pmol/L (1.4 - 3.8) 41.7%

I would expect to see your FT4 much nearer the top of the range at even 90%. Yours is too low. You need a dose increase.

FT3 is a much better guide as to how well your levo is working and if you are converting well. Suggest you get private tests done. Do the test at 9am, fasting. Take Levo that day AFTER the test. See link for companies offering tests and discount codes. thyroiduk.org/help-and-supp...

50mcgs Levo is a starter dose and unlikely to be enough for a man especially.

I recommend always getting the same brand Levo. Many people find brand is not interchangeable.

Your folate is on the low side. Recommend a good B complex to keep all te B's in balance. This one is good. amazon.co.uk/Liposomal-Soft...

If you have a thyroid condition then that really is the first place to look if you have remaining symptoms. Low FT3 can cause a very wide range of uissues and symptoms.

[Eyadlaymoun in reply to Jaydee1507]

thank you .. i see the folate at middle ? And if i take B complex without testing does it hurt ? I am very active guy ist ok to keep taking and go on and off ?

[Jaydee1507 Administrator in reply to Eyadlaymoun]

Yes your folate has been tested, not B12 though. B12 is water soluble so any excess is just excreted via urine.

Ideally you would take it continuously but vitamin holidays are a good thing and do prevent build up of anything that is in excess.

[Alanna012]

What are you taking? Levothyroxine or NDT?

[Eyadlaymoun in reply to Alanna012]

levo 50 mg

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Eyadlaymoun]

50mcg is only the standard STARTER Dose levothyroxine

How long have you been on just 50mcg

Bloods should be retested 6-8 weeks after each increase in dose or brand change in levothyroxine

ALWAYS test thyroid levels early morning, ideally just before 9am and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

Typically dose is increased slowly upwards in 25mcg steps over 12-18months until on approximately full replacement dose, this is usually around 1.6mcg levothyroxine per kilo of your weight per day

[Eyadlaymoun in reply to SlowDragon]

i do that thank you !

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Eyadlaymoun]

Levothyroxine doesn’t top up failing thyroid levels, it completely replaces it. So it’s essential to eventually be on high enough dose levothyroxine, even if started only on 50mcg

guidelines on dose levothyroxine by weight

Even if we frequently don’t start on full replacement dose, most people need to increase levothyroxine dose slowly upwards in 25mcg steps (retesting 6-8 weeks after each increase) until eventually on, or near full replacement dose

NICE guidelines on full replacement dose

nice.org.uk/guidance/ng145/...

1.3.6

Consider starting levothyroxine at a dosage of 1.6 micrograms per kilogram of body weight per day (rounded to the nearest 25 micrograms) for adults under 65 with primary hypothyroidism and no history of cardiovascular disease.

Also here 

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/hypo...

pathlabs.rlbuht.nhs.uk/tft_...

Guiding Treatment with Thyroxine: 

In the majority of patients 50-100 μg thyroxine can be used as the starting dose. Alterations in dose are achieved by using 25-50 μg increments and adequacy of the new dose can be confirmed by repeat measurement of TSH after 2-3 months. 

The majority of patients will be clinically euthyroid with a ‘normal’ TSH and having thyroxine replacement in the range 75-150 μg/day (1.6ug/Kg on average).

The recommended approach is to titrate thyroxine therapy against the TSH concentration whilst assessing clinical well-being. The target is a serum TSH within the reference range. 

……The primary target of thyroxine replacement therapy is to make the patient feel well and to achieve a serum TSH that is within the reference range. The corresponding FT4 will be within or slightly above its reference range.

The minimum period to achieve stable concentrations after a change in dose of thyroxine is two months and thyroid function tests should not normally be requested before this period has elapsed.

Approximately how much do you weigh in kilo?

[arTistapple]

Admin has suggested your levels of hormone are not yet optimal. Could be mucin is your problem. It often feels firm enough for you to think it is muscle but really it’s fluid under the skin. Mucin does not dent/imprint when compressed in the skin, further to speculating it is muscle. Muscle tends to feel quite different, it’s smoothe (not doughy). However you can also have mucin in amongst the muscle fibres. It acts like ‘glue’ making muscles unable to work properly. It’s difficult to get them flexible when the fibres are glued together. I have had loads of problems with this. I used to be able to lift more weight in the gym than many of the men. Even when I was 60. Now I must put up with frozen shoulders etc. Get your meds right and hopefully you will soon be more useful in the gym.

[Eyadlaymoun in reply to arTistapple]

thank you .. so what cause this mucin issue ? And does it cause hypo symptoms?

[arTistapple]

It is a symptom of hypothyroidism. I think it is the oedema in myxoedema, which was the original name for hypothyroidism. As far as I know it’s exclusive to hypothyroidism. There is quite a bit on the internet about it. Maybe get onto Thyroid UK site itself.

[Eyadlaymoun in reply to arTistapple]

so how they test mucin ? And is this something can fixed with levo. ?

And i don feel my skin thick and like spongy and feel something like fat crumbs under it sticking together specially in my chest

[arTistapple]

Sounds like you should perhaps visit your doc pointing this out. I can’t speculate as I can’t see what you are talking about.