afternoon all,
I’ve just been reading up on Dr Wentzs theory about addressing the adrenal system to help people with hashimotos. I know I have very high morning cortisol but not how to help that going forward and what I would need to do. Everything I’ve read seems to be about low cortisol, not high.
Does anyone here have more information or feedback on products they have tried please? I’m interested to know personal experiences.
thank you 🙏🏽
what are your symptoms with high cortisol in the morning? Sorry I don’t know the answer to your question.
I can’t honestly say I have any. I took the test to see where I was at and it came back with excessively high until lunch when it normalises.
Do you know you have high morning cortisol for sure? Have you done the salivary tests?
You might find this thread interesting: healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
yes, I did the 4 point saliva test as suspected adrenal insufficiency but my results were infact very high 🤷🏼♀️
Weird how it works out sometimes!
I see from your last post you were still undermedicated for hypothyroidism at that point. How’s it going with raising your dosage? Or have you got one of those GPs who’s trying to tell you it’s not your thyroid now that your results are within the ridiculously wide reference ranges?
I saw her last night and she has increased me to 100. She still says she doesn’t want my tsh below 2.5 as it will increase risk to my bone health. I have no knowledge of this but it’s a battle for another day if I ever get to 2.5 🤷🏼♀️
She’s wrong. 2.5 is the middle of the reference range, that doesn’t make it optimal. Most treated hypothyroid patients find things improve once TSH is nearer 1.0 or just below (and even that isn’t the lowest it’s safe to go).
Still, good that you’ve got an increase. Hopefully it’ll help. 🤞
it’s very strange. We have previously discussed that optimal would be under 1 so no idea where she’s pulled this from . I read an interesting article that a higher tsh can carry just as many risks as a suppressed one and I’m nowhere near that. I thought bone health was only affected if suppressed?
It's not even 'significantly' affected by supressed TSH when fT4 is in range. healthunlocked.com/thyroidu... (longterm-subclinical-hyperthyroidism-does-not-affect-bone-density-in-patients-having-had-thyroid-ablation-for-cancer)
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And long term Levo patients with a 'low but not supressed' TSH 0.04 - 0.4 had no increase in risks over patients with in range TSH 0.4- 4 . The risks did increase quite sharply when TSH was 0.03 or below , but some of those risks were still lower than the group with 'over range' TSH . ( ....and when did you last hear of a GP panicking about risks because a patient's TSH was 9 .99 ?? ... never ) ...academic.oup.com/jcem/artic... (Serum Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone Concentration and Morbidity from Cardiovascular Disease and Fractures in Patients on Long-Term Thyroxine Therapy
Robert W. Flynn, Sandra R. Bonellie, Roland T. Jung, Thomas M. MacDonald, Andrew D. Morris, Graham P. Leese ....... 2010) This paper is in fact the basis of the NICE thyroid guidleines that warn GP's of risks associated with low TSH .. but N.I.C.E conveniently forget to mention the "low but not supressed" part of it's conclusion ...
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See my reply to this post (3rd reply down) for a list of other useful discussions on the subject of Low TSH / Risk vs Quality of Life healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
thanks for this, I suspect I will be printing the whole thing off at my next visit!
Why don’t you ask your GP for an early morning cortisol blood test. Then you will know exactly how high it is?
Clemmie
she doesn’t see my cortisol as a problem. I gave her the results of the saliva test and she said they aren’t accurate/useful and not to worry about it. Then offered me CBT for my clear health anxiety 👀
grrrr. Don’t listen to that! I very much doubt what you’re experiencing is health anxiety. You’re undermedicated. What is it with these GPs??
Seriously, what do these people learn??
I have rubbish low morning cortisol, and DHEA below range but am seriously debating whether it's worth bother going GP, to receive replies like this.
I seriously wouldn’t bother, I had a non existent DHEA of <10 which 10 was the lowest they could measure and the Endo I presented this result to said “that would mean you taking steroids and we don’t want that”. Talk about being dismissive - that appointment was a complete waste of time.
Now, nearly three years later, I have very high SHBG and non existent testosterone leading to muscle wastage ☹️
I don’t know why they bother testing if they do absolutely nowt about the results! Are you on hrt? I get testosterone via the gp as mine was nearly zero too x
No, not on HRT - way too old for that. I think this is part of the problem - ageism in the NHS but, because I'm post menopausal doesn't mean that I don't deserve to feel well and be able to function on a day to day basis. If left my health up to my GP, I would either be bedridden or dead. I now see an Endo privately as it's the only way I've been able to get T3 that I can tolerate as the re-referral to NHS Endo was a waste of time, he wouldn't prescribe T3 even though I had been pushed (erroneously) into having RAI and my conversion was dire. My treatment on the NHS has been diabolical (that's putting it mildly). I'm trying to put together a complaint to Healthwatch, not that that is going to do anything but I think I'll feel better for it. I'm not letting it go. Alanna012
can you be too old? Specialists recommend it be started within 10 years of meno for best results but there are still options if it’s past that timeframe I believe. I would be lost without mine. I’m so sorry you’ve had poor treatment, sadly it seems to be the norm more often than not. My dr was adamant my hormones weren’t to blame for any of symptoms and told me I had silent reflux 🤷🏼♀️and when my meno specialist sent my prescription through for him to take over he said he disagreed with it all and took all my prescriptions off me. I have literally researched all of my own health issues and had to spoon-feed the doctor who has then reluctantly agreed. I have lost all faith. I think getting it all off your chest so to speak in a complaint would help your frustration greatly but as to whether anything will change as a result, I’m not confident 🥲 Wishing you well and sending hope for a resolution x
Oh no, I'm so sorry, it is so frustrating, I just do not get it.
You're left with self-treating and they don't like that either. But what are you supposed to do when your hormones are so low you cannot even make use of the hormones given to help your thyroid condition.
I'm wondering if aldestorone is a better test to take to your GP. I think if that's low they might be more inclined to do something.
That said my NHS bloods showed very low almost below range sodium, and the GP didn't blink an eyelid or think it worthy of perusal
I actually did a Medichecks Sex Hormone test which showed testosterone below measurable level. My private Endo suggested testosterone gel and said he would give me a private prescription but I said I would try my GP first, after all, I've paid into the system all my working life and still having to pay for all my tests and my T3. Of course, GP insisted on doing his own testosterone test which came back today at way below range with an extremely high SHBG, so waiting on a prescription. The battle goes on !!
keep us posted, good luck! At least your gp is entertaining it. My previous gp wouldn’t even do the test as he doesn’t agree that women need testosterone??? Excuse me but I think scientific data can’t really be argued with. Still a no 🤷🏼♀️ roll on new gp who is amazing with HRT but not so much with thyroid…
you do wonder. I always come here first, you get the best advice x
Hi Knackeredandcross (your name kind of says it all really)
Really interested to read your post. I have been treating hashis for 15 years and thought I was winning. I take Levo and Cynomel (T3 and T4) and plenty of vits and supplements. Felt really good up till about a month ago. Then slowly declined, and I put it down to a hashis flare up but bloods were good and a TSH 0.9 - which is what I aim for. Then about a week ago, I woke up feeling absolutely awful with all the signs of heart failure - nausea, migraine, chest pains, and high blood pressure. Got a docs appointment same day and was taken to hospital for ECG's, blood tests etc. They kept me in overnight and put me on a low dose blood thinner until I can get an appointment with a cardiologist. In the meantime, I had done a Blue Horizon Thyroid Bronze blood test that does cortisol as well as thyroid hormones and to my horror found that was sky high. Like you all the references to Hashis and Cortisol assume adrenal fatigue and low cortisol. However, what I can see is a connection to high cortisol, high blood pressure and hypertension. I'm really dejected because I have no confidence a cardiologist is going to be able to connect the underlying issues, problems with the endocrine systems, the feedback loops of poor gut health (pretty inevitable with hashis), and keeping hormone levels at the high end of the range. Even more complicated is the fact I have dropped my T3 and T4 dose as blood thinners tend to push up your thyroid hormone levels. It just feels like everything is unravelling and there will be little chance of getting the right help. Maybe with beta blockers to protect the heart from high levels of cortisol and adrenalin I might be able to get things back on track but just waiting out the days for a cardiologists appointment is awful and not good for stress levels. I wonder if any of this helps you understand your situation. Anyway all the best,
thanks for your reply, I’m sorry to hear of your troubles. It may be worth speaking to a naturopathic doctor who will be looking at the whole picture rather than each illness / symptom separately. I thought all my symptoms were menopause at the start but a naturopathic doctor went through my entire symptom list and all my bloods and suggested she thought it was hashis which I’d never even heard of. Sadly we didn’t get along so I didn’t see her again but I could see the value of a whole person approach. Maybe some of the lovely people on here have a recommendation for you. I hope you improve soon x
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