Good morningI recently had thyroid tested (aswell as many others) after having tingling in nose, feet and hands. My T3 is borderline low
I was treated for B12 deficiency however the tingling isn't improving despite twice weekly injections.
The symptoms are possibly folate related although my folates always been over 20 however I am starting to supplement.
I'd like your opinions on low t3 syndrome as TSH and T4 look normal.
Advice on raising t3 naturally too please?
Thank you
Hi Rockerfella, welcome to the forum.
Are you taking a daily B complex as well as having B12 injections? The Bs all work together, so need to be kept balanced. Taking a B complex would be better than just taking folate. Are you taking any other supplements? Have you had vit D and ferritin tested?
T3 as low as yours will definitely be causing symptoms. But, your FT4, whilst in-range, is nowhere near 'normal'. To be 'normal' - euthyroid - it would be nearer mid-range.
As to your TSH - a pituitary hormone - it is rather low considering your T4/T3 levels, so you could have a sluggish pituitary. TSH is not always a very good indicator of thyroid status.
As for raising T3 'naturally', I'm not sure what you mean. What is 'natural'? Are there any unnatural ways of raising T3? I take it you don't have any sort of thyroid diagnosis, and aren't taking thyroid hormone replacement? Optimising all your nutrients might help. But, then again, it might not.
Hi, I don't consistently take B complex no.. I have raised ferritin to 70.Vitamin D is over 125 which surprises me as I hadn't supplemented since last year and spend all week in a car and or inside.
I have just started taking Folonic acid 5mg. I chose to take this as opposed to folic acid incase receptors are blocked.
Yes I meant naturally through supplements.
To out more context, I have felt floored in the afternoons for years and struggle to rouse in the morning due to poor sleep. Some mornings I would cry I felt so tired and unable to cope.
Was always out on antidepressants. Periods none existent due to mirena coil.
2020 aged 45 I was put on HRT due to low mood low energy and brain fog, helped a little but not massively.
2021 I was diagnosed with ADHD privately. I was prescribed elvanse which is a stimulant known for poor appetite and malnutrition.
I lost a stone, could think more clearly and was a lot more productive but my baseline when off the meds seemed to get worse.
I had some blood tests which showed my mch and mcv were raised (have been for 20 years)
Folate was over 20, b12 was 575 both in range. And ferritin 42.
I took b12 injections twice a week and more recently 3 times.
My mch and mcv immediately improved as did my ferritin.
Heamotoligist agreed I was b12 deficient and has now advised me to have folic acid 5mg, becuase althought the brain fog has imroved (still not sharp), tingling symptoms are slow to improve. I also have a cold face and sinuses which feels really odd.
It was then that I saw my thyroid results and so have asked for advice.
Estrogen- 399 on HRT
Testosterone 0.8
Free androgen index is 0.66
OK, so you do have a lot of hypo symptoms, brain fog, poor sleep and poor appetite are just a few. ADHD can also be a hypo symptom.
I'm not convinced that supplements can help your thyroid. It may eleviate some of your symptoms to optimise your nutrients levels, because low malnutrition causes a lot of symptoms on its own. But, there's not guarantee that doing that would improve thyroid function. But, obviously it's the first thing to try.
Low level nutrients can cause low TSH. And, without the TSH - Thyroid Stimulating Hormone - the thyroid will not make sufficient thyroid hormone. Your ferritin is low, but not that low. Your vit D is good. And, you're having a lot of B12 pumped into you. So, I'm not convinced that is the root of the problem. Might help if you took a B complex every day, but... Which one are you taking, by the way? What are the ingredients? We have to chose our B complex very carefully.
I'm more than happy to pay to go to an edicrinologist for advice
Not convinced that would help you, either. They know absolutely nothing about nutrition, and very little about thyroid. They would probably just look at your TSH and tell you there's nothing wrong with you. Most endos are diabetes specialist with a few weird ideas about thyroid. So, unless one come specifically recommended to you by someone with thyroid problems, I wouldn't bother. You'd be better of asking questions on here.
Some of my other hormones are on the floor (testosterone) and take estrogen and progesterone.
Well, that wouldn't be surprising as your FT3 is so low. All hormones are linked.
I'm not overly keen on red meats, I try but my body doesn't really like them.
That is typical of hypos, due to low stomach acid and difficulty digesting.
What is the thyroid antibodies test please?
Thyroid Perodxidase antibodies and Thyroglobulin antibodies. If these are high, it means you have autoimmune thyroidititis. Should automatically be tested as a process of ilimination of the causes of hypothyroidism. But usually aren't because doctors don't understand autoimmunity.
Autoimmune thyroiditis - aka Hashi's - is an autoimmune disease where the thyroid is slowly destroyed by the immune system. Every so often the immune system will launch an attack on the thyroid, and the dying cells will release their stock of hormone into the blood causing levels of T4 and T3 to rise sharply and the TSH to drop. At the same time, traces of Thyroid Peroxidas and Thyroglobulin - proteins necessary for the production and transportation of thyroid hormones - are also leaked into the blood, where they shouldn't be. So, the antibodies come along to, basically, get rid of them.
HiThese were some other results if you can read them.
I obviously need to do some research here.
Could my gut be causing my issues?
2 yrs ago i had gastritis. I have a hiatus hernia and Gerd.. I now wonder if that's due to low acid as opposed to high? I was treated with PPis but they didn't help so I modified my diet and went plant based for 6 months.
A few months ago I did a food sensitivity test which came up with all the foods I regularly ate so thought maybe leaky gut?
Albumin 47
The B complex is slow release with Holland and Barrett. I was nervous about B6 so stopped it.
How do I get help then, or get treated? I can't rely on my Dr she has misdiagnosed me as having depression for years. It was only when the adhd meds stopped me from feeling tired I realised that was more the issue.
I also get quite irritable and snappy
Irritiable, snappy, depressed, all hypo symptoms. But, doctors like to blame everything on depression because they think it's easy to treat. They really have no idea.
Right, so, personally, I would never buy anything from Holland and Barrett. In general they use the cheapest ingredients possible. The best B complex you can get is Thorne's Basic B. It has the right forms of B 12 and folate, and nothing but B vits, so nothing to stop absorption. Slow release anything is a bit hit and miss, because it depends how well your gut works, and hypo guts don't tend to work well at all.
You've had hour TPO antibodies tested, I see, and it's negative but that does no, in itself, mean that you don't have Hashi's. For three reasons:
1) no Tg antibody result. If that is high, it means you have Hashi's even if the TPOab is negative.
2) antibodies fluctuate all the time, so just because they're low today, doesn't mean they will be next week, or next year.
3) a certain percentage of Hashi's people never even have high antibodies and are diagnosed by an ultrasound.
All that said, I doubt Hashi's is the problem in your particular case.
Apart from that, the other results aren't very helpful.
Your gut could indeed be causing issues. And, your GERD could indeed be caused by low stomach acid. The symptoms of both high and low stomach acid are the same, but doctors never think about it being low, and automatically prescribe PPIs, which lower the acid even further, making the problem worse, rather than better.
But, having food sensitivities doesn't necessarily mean you have leaky gut.
Did your plant-based diet include any form of soya?
I shall order the B complex you recommend thank you.I have always eaten more soya.. soy sauce used to be on most meals, edemame beans, soya ice cream, soya yoghurt.
I don't like milk and cheese though so never replaced these.
When I was younger I could never sleep unless I exercised. My mind wouldn't switch off. That has improved with the b12 definitely.
I'm worried my llver is struggling to detox, but heamo said that was OK.
I notice the B complex has methylcobalamin and L5 methyltetrahydrofolate So these are the best forms for us? Can I ask why please? I did try methylcobalamin which seemed to work, and (6s) tetrahydrofolate but it gave me headaches.
Past 2 days I've had 5mg of folonic acid and I feel achey and poorly
I'm not sure if this is a coincidence, I may actually be poorly.
I've also been taking zinc and TMG this past week.
Well, the soya could very well be a big part of your problem. It's what's called a goitrogen. Eaten in large quantities it can affect how your thyroid works. But, not only that. It can impede the uptake of thyroid hormone at the cellular level, so what little hormone you have won't be getting into the cells. We always advise hypos to avoid soya like the plague, and personally, I'd advise everyone to do the same, hypo or not. It is not a health food as it's made out to be. It can cause a lot of health problems. Vegetarians eat it for the protein content, but the truth is, the human gut cannot absorb the protein from soya because it also contains a substance that blocks the absorption of the protein in the human gut.
Methyl is usually the best form of B vits although some people cannot take it. If you take cyanocobalamin and folic acid, they have to be converted to the methyl form, but not everybody is very good at that. So, taking the methyl form gives you a head start.
Zinc is another tricky one. Zinc needs to be balanced with copper, but hypos usually have one of them too high and the other too low. Taking more of the one that is high is a very bad idea, so it's best to get them both tested before supplementing.
Ah OK , hold the zinc then and hold the soya. Although TBH I haven't been eating soya recently.I read about Broccoli and kale being goitrogens. They are 2 of my favourite but not raw.
I've been injecting with hydroxocobalamin more recently so I will go back to the methylcobalamin in tablet form.
I've also got nature's best probiotic so I will start with that. I also have heme iron
When do you recommend I retest thyroid panel?
I was going to talk to a private Dr tomorrow about testosterone treatment. (My libido has also been pretty much none existent my adult life but also on the floor for the past 4/6 yrs)
Is this a bad idea? I should be treating the root cause.
I read about Broccoli and kale being goitrogens. They are 2 of my favourite but not raw.
Broccoli and kale are not the same sort of thing as soya. It is highly unlikely you would be able to eat enough of them to have any effect on your thyroid. And this business about cooking them is just a myth. Raw or cooked doesn't make much difference because they just aren't a problem.
I've been injecting with hydroxocobalamin more recently so I will go back to the methylcobalamin in tablet form.
I'm not an expert on B12, it's true, but I think that would be a mistake if you're truly deficient/have PA. I wasn't saying that methylcobalamin is better than hydroxicobalamin, I was saying that it's better than cyanocobalamin tablets. Which is what most B complexes contain.
When do you recommend I retest thyroid panel?
I don't think there's much point in the immediate future. Even if low nutrients are causing your low thyroid hormone levels, optimising them won't have an instant effect. It will take time - time to optimise and time for that to affect the thyroid. So, maybe leave it six months, if you can wait that long? I know curiosity often gets the better of us, though.
I was going to talk to a private Dr tomorrow about testosterone treatment. (My libido has also been pretty much none existent my adult life but also on the floor for the past 4/6 yrs)
I think, personally, I'd put that on hold. Your low testosterone could just be the result of low T3, and should therefore increase as T3 increases. As I said, all hormones are linked, and thyroid hormones are key. But, you're not taking statins for high cholesterol, are you?
Is this a bad idea? I should be treating the root cause.
If you can find the root cause, treating it would be the best course of action. The problem often is that it's impossible to find the root cause. Sometimes, it's Hashi's, but Hashi's can't be treated, anyway. So, all you can do is replace the missing hormones. Same goes for Central Hypo - i.e. when there's a problem with the pituitary or the hypothalamus. There is a possibility that your root cause is the soya. So, cutting that out of your diet 100% could change things. But, once again, it would take time, you wouldn't see instant results, I don't think. And, there's always the possibility that it would change things anyway. Babies feed on soy formula often develop hypothyroidism that doesn't reverse, even when they're off the formula and eating normal food. With thyroid, everything is trial and error, and everything takes time.
OK thank you so so much for your help. I shall have a good read today of all your advice and links and take it all in.
You're welcome.
Genuinely, thank you so much for your help.. I'm so grateful. I wasn't feeling great yesterday and was messaging you from my bed. I've taken b6 (albeit h&b for now)
Ordered Thornes b complex
Ordered thornes vitamins for women which contain iodine and selenium.
And I'm a little better clued up on thyroid. I can see the link between. B vitamins especially b12 and thyroid so hopefully once my folate is up and my b12 is being metabolised that should help too.
I have also requested a TGA antibody test and an intrinsic factor test.
One thing I did notice was an IGA antibody test in 2019 was 3.1 (range 0.8 - 4) does this mean anything to you?
Ordered thornes vitamins for women which contain iodine and selenium.
No, absolutely not! Don't take that. You mustn't self-treat with iodine. And multi-vits are always rubbish, whoever makes them. Did I suggest you take iodine? I don't think I did, sorry if I was unclear somewhere and you thought I did but it's absolutely the wrong thing for a hypo to take unless she has been tested and found to be deficient.
One thing I did notice was an IGA antibody test in 2019 was 3.1 (range 0.8 - 4) does this mean anything to you?
It's just a general autoimmune test to see if you're likely to have an autoimmune disease. But, if it's positive, it doesn't tell you with autoimmune disease you have. Yours is negative, so no worries in 2019 on that score.
No you didn't , that was my research 🙈 this isnt going to be easy is it 😫😄
What's difficult is sorting the chaff from the wheat, knowing who to believe and who not. There are a lot of people, including doctors, who believe that all you have to do for a thyroid problem is throw iodine at it. They seem to believe that iodine is some magical substance that makes the thyroid miraculously work better. It doesn't. Iodine is just one of the ingredients of thyroid hormone - one molecule of T4 contains 4 atoms of iodine. Increasing the amount of iodine available - unless you have an iodine deficiency - is not going to make more thyroid hormone in a failing thyroid. After all, if your oven is on the blink, it doesn't matter how many eggs you add to the batter, you still won't get a cake.
Never take iodine unless you have been tested - a non-loading urine test - and been found to be deficient. And, even then, don't self-treat. You need to be followed closely by an experienced practitioner because excess iodine can cause all sorts of problems - for one thing, it is anti-thyroid so can make hypothyroidism worse. It used to be used to treat hyperthyroidism before the invention of anti-thyroid drugs.
And, I really don't think your problem looks like iodine deficiency. Mainly, to me, it looks like a pituitary/hypothalamus problem. And, iodine will do nothing to help that, but could very well cause other problems that you didn't have before.
OK, thank you. One other thing I thought about, as a teenager and young adult I restricted all fat in my diet.
I try to eat healthy fats now and suppliment with Omega 3 when I remember 🙈
Yes, a lot of us were brain-washed into believing that fat was the root of all evil. But that wouldn't have caused your thyroid problems, if that's what you're thinking. Glad to hear you've seen the error of your ways and started eating fat again! 🤣
😊 thank you, in so many ways 🙏 Multivits with iodine cancelled ✅️ 🤣
Good! But, even without iodine, multivits are a terrible waste of money. Very unlikely you're get anything out of them for a number of reasons. Best to stick to testing individual nutrients and just taking what you need according to the results. We can help you with that.
Thank you so much.🤗
You're very welcome.
Hi Grey Goose, I'm going to order some tests, please could you help me?🙏
I know I need to order an iron panel, is there anything else specific that I need to check?
I also want to check folate as I have been symptomatic since taking the folonic acid - im not sure if its becuase it is actaully being used so its dropping (folic acid just sat there) or because it doesnt suit me.
We always recommend getting full thyroid testing:
TSH
FT4
FT3
TPO antibodies
Tg antibodies
vit D
vit B12
folate
ferritin
Those are the basics to be done first, which will give you a clearer idea of what is going on with your thyroid. You could add early morning cortisol.
No statins no.
Ferritin at 42 on your other post
Ferritin is too low
Are you vegetarian or vegan?
Approx age?
Pre or post menopause?
You need vitamin D and thyroid antibodies tested
Improving all four vitamins to optimal levels may improve thyroid levels
Or low thyroid levels are CAUSING poor vitamin levels
Hi, I think I may have suffered with malnutrition (please see reply above) so I'm interested in you saying my low vitamins may cause poor thyroid function.I'm more than happy to pay to go to an edicrinologist for advice however would like to see if my problems are related to diet.
Some of my other hormones are on the floor (testosterone) and take estrogen and progesterone.
Not vegetarian but I've have never eaten milk or cheese. I eat chicken and started eating fish 6 months ago. I'm not overly keen on red meats, I try but my body doesn't really like them.
What is the thyroid antibodies test please?
First step is always to work on getting all four vitamins to OPTIMAL levels
It becomes a vicious circle…..if you have low vitamin levels this results in sluggish thyroid….leads to low stomach acid and low stomach acid often makes it difficult to digest red meat
Not eating enough red meat …..results in even lower iron and ferritin
cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...
In all people, a serum ferritin level of less than 30 micrograms/L confirms the diagnosis of iron deficiency
Also See page 7 on here
rcn.org.uk/-/media/royal-co...
Look at increasing iron rich foods in diet
Eating iron rich foods like liver or liver pate once a week plus other red meat, pumpkin seeds and dark chocolate, plus daily orange juice or other vitamin C rich drink can help improve iron absorption
List of iron rich foods
Never supplement iron without doing full iron panel test for anaemia first and retest 3-4 times a year if self supplementing. It’s possible to have low ferritin but high iron
Medichecks iron panel test
medichecks.com/products/iro...
Links about iron and ferritin
An article that explains why Low ferritin and low thyroid levels are often linked
preventmiscarriage.com/iron...
irondisorders.org/too-littl...
davidg170.sg-host.com/wp-co...
Great in-depth article on low ferritin
oatext.com/iron-deficiency-...
drhedberg.com/ferritin-hypo...
This is interesting because I have noticed that many patients with Hashimoto’s disease and hypothyroidism, start to feel worse when their ferritin drops below 80 and usually there is hair loss when it drops below 50.
Thyroid disease is as much about optimising vitamins as thyroid hormones
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
restartmed.com/hypothyroidi...
Post discussing just how long it can take to raise low ferritin
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Iron and thyroid link
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Excellent article on iron and thyroid
cambridge.org/core/journals...
Posts discussing why important to do full iron panel test
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Chicken livers if iron is good, but ferritin low
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Heme iron v non heme
hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions...
Ferritin over 100 to alleviate symptoms
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Low Iron implicated in hypothyroidism
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Come back with new post once you get full iron panel test for anaemia
Thank you for all your links. I shall have a thorough look tomorrow and order some tests.
My hair was definitely falling out when ferritin was 42.
Welcome!
Apart from tingling sensations....how do you feel?
For how long have you been supplementing/ injecting B12?
I take it you haven't been diagnosed as hypothyroid.
Symptoms....
thyroiduk.org/if-you-are-un...
Your FT3 is abysmally low and is highly likely to be making you feel below par.
To attempt to raise T3 level first you need to optimise vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin to support thyroid function ...but with your low level I suspect you need to add replacement hormone.
Re diagnosis .... medics are fixated on TSH which is not a reliable marker.
thyroidpatients.ca/2021/07/...
You would likely benefit from the addition of levothyroxine but finding a GP to understand this could be a challenge.
If, by "raising T3 naturally" you mean without thyroid hormone replacement/ medication...I'd hazard a guess, not much chance!
Hi, no I've not had a diagnosis.I think I may have malnutrition, please see reply above.
My vitamin levels all seem fine now, its like they sit there but don't get used! Vit D 125 , folate over 20 and b12 575 but I was deficient?!
So I'm going to work on raising my folate and iron to optimum levels and take a B complex as well as a womens vitamin with selenium and iodine.
If getting a Dr to prescribe hormone treatment is small and my chances of it improving with vitamins, what are my next steps?.
I also notice my serum alkaline is 40, bang on bottom of range. This can also signal thyroid problems or malnutrition
You state "I was treated for B12 deficiency however the tingling isn't improving despite twice weekly injections."
Did they diagnose you with Pernicious Anaemia? I have this condition (as did my Mother) and we have to have regular B12 injections - usual it is quarterly but I have a monthly jab.
When my mother's GP stopped her B12 injections (she had been diagnosed years before as having Pernicious Anaemia), she died as she then developed stomach cancer.
Hi,no I haven't.. they haven't found a cause . I'm not showing antibodies for autoimmune disorders but I haven't had IF tested.So sorry to hear about your mum.
Could a suppressed TSH be causing T3 to fall?
I Have Low T3 and recently suffered terrible leg pain before my leg collapsed. Could this be linked?
Is T3 at the lower end causing my fatigue..
Could this be Low T3 Syndrome rather than hypoT??? 
is t3 causing my hair loss 
