My functional medicine practitioner put me on Armour in May. My previous integrative doctor had me on Levothyroxine (I moved which is why I changed practitioners). My primary care physician indicated that Armour is less consistent than Levothyroxine. Have you ever heard that?
I'm asking because since being on Armour I have gotten sick twice (negative COVID tests) and for a week after the cold symptoms were mostly gone I was dragging. So, maybe Armour doesn't work as well when you get sick?
Thanks!
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Carrot_Top
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I should think the majority of people who've mentioned NDT to their doctors have heard that! Doesn't mean it's true, though. Why would it be? NDT is produced in much the same fashion as synthetic levo, it's thoroughly tested for the correct levels of the hormones it contains before being made into pills. It's not like NDT is cooked up in someone's garage by dealers. lol
And there's no reason why NDT wouldn't 'work as well' when you get sick. It's more likely to be the aftermath of whatever bug you had than anything to do with your thyroid hormone replacement. In fact, NDT is likely to be better under those circumstances that levo, because it contains T3, meaning that you're not reliant on conversion for your T3, as conversion slows down you you are sick.
That said, it's not a magic potion that makes you bounce back after an illness. Recovery is still going to take time. And the more hypo you are, the longer it will take.
' It's not like NDT is cooked up in someone's garage by dealers. lol"
You know things are frustrating when you answer, "Too bad it's not' in your head.
I'm cackling 🤣🤣🤣🤣
At both comments "Cooked up in a garage"... "Too bad it's not" LOLOLOL!
But also because I just said the same thing to hubby tonight about injectable B12. "Can i compound my own in my living room???" 🤔😂 (We eventually realized that the cats would put their paws in the vat & ruin sterility LOL)
If compounding pharmacies can order the raw ingredients, why can't we!? "Hello yes i'd like order 500 kg of dessicated thyroid please, deliver to flat # 10 please thank you" ! We can dream 😇
There have been some recent recalls related to NDT so perhaps that's where the "inconsistency" comment comes from. Though I'd heard that even before the latest recalls. Must be something that's spread around in medical schools, but it's false. NDT is made & tested under the same quality controls as any other med, as greygoose has said. And Levothyroxine has had plenty of issues too. The pot shouldn't call the kettle black.
There been just as many for levithyroxine. Armour is a reputable brand and my endo says it is very consistent. Its not the Armour but the bug thats setting you low. Also are you on optimal treatment or building up slowly....that would make a difference whatever formulation of thyroid hormones you are on.
When I was ill twice in sucession and took longer to get over the virus.....I discovered my vit D level was low. Might be good idea to check that it is optimal see Grassroots or the Vit D Council for optimum level. GP will accept levels that are not optimal.
I've been on a ndt fir 15years. Transformed my life....and certainly hasn't made me more susceptible to viruses or extended their duration in comparison to other not on ndt or thyroid repmacement. 😊
Unfortunately currently there are WAY more NDT companies with problems with their formulas that have tried pretending there wasn't.
Armour, Erfa are the only 2 types currently on the western market that are still considered reputable. NP have a big court case against them, the manufacturers of WP and Nature aren't making because their products were causing major hyper episodes in people (myself inc) after their change of formula that they stated never happened.
Then we've lost 2 brands in Thailand - Thiroid and another i cant remember the name of so now there is just Thyroid -s left which some are saying is no where near as good as it was.
I'm not surprised traditional doctors are latching on to this again, even if originally it wasn't the case.
It certainly wasnt. Recalls of levothyroxine brands are not generally hitting the news (and neither are other recalls of other big pharma meds). It does suit big pharma to make out ndts are bad news as they'd prefer we took their products -synthectic levothyroxine and Liothyronine. Having said that we do seem to have had a series of problems with some ndts that used to be fine. Consequently the nhs now only list Armour and Erfa on their prescription list as ndt options.
Are you optimising your NDT dosage. With NDT you increase your dosage slowly over time. You use your symptoms to guide these increases. Getting sick could be a symptom, ie with out enough NDT, your body temps will be low and you probably wouldn't fight off bugs as efficiently.
Most people who use NDT, source it privately and hence there is no issue with dosages, you take as much as you need. I take 2.5 grains and one of the admins on this page takes double that. It all just depends what your body becomes used to and or needs.
I use my temp, tingles in my feet , heart palpitations and degree of mild headache as a guide to my NDT dosage.
Hello I wonder if you could say more about your temp tingling in your feet and heart palpitations? I’m new to NDT and feeling the magic I was hoping for after trying t3 and Levo. I’ve been ridiculously sweaty in this heat like I’ve never experienced and breathless. What are the symptoms you watch for which mean you give yourself less ? Thanks
Start on a low dose - example if you are on 100mcg Levo don't start on 60mg (1grain) NDT. Start on 30mg NDT and then gently work your way up over a month or two. Then over the next 12 months slowly increase or optimise up to 2-3 grains. You will begin to over cook at some point - the trick is recognising this. Stop for a few days and then recommence on your last good dosage.
You need to drink a glass of water with NDT, if you don’t the NDT can burn your stomach lining and give you reflux issues after the first week.
Symptoms .
Feeling cold - you don't have enough thyroid.
Body temp is 35 deg C but you feel fine - you don't have enough thyroid.
Freezing cold feet - may be overcooked. They are basically going numb.
Feeling Hot - Could be too much or could be you had a whole days thyroid an hour ago and you should be split dosing. Or it could just be a hot day.
Tingles in the feet or hands, crawly scalp - Too much or too much too soon. Although when correctly medicated, I just begin to get mild tingles in my feet about 30min after dosing.
Tongue tip tingles or feels odd. I'm correctly medicated.
Mild Heart Palps after dosage - I'm correctly medicated.
Crashing Palps all night - I'm way over medicated.
Weird Palps I can't explain - I'm under medicated.
Slow pulse 40bps - I'm under medicated.
Mild headache - I'm just beginning to overcook. Skip a dose.
Brain fog - I'm over medicated. Skip a dose.
Breathless - I'm under medicated. It used to drive me mad on Levo even though I had a good TSH.
Nervous bladder - drink more water. Your urine can get too caustic and burn you slightly, and your "I need to wee" nerves mistake the burning for I need to wee feelings.
NDT dosage - You can have half in the morning and half in the afternoon (split dose).
You can take NDT with food, I do it all the time. It does two things. 1. Slows/delays the release. 2. Removes 10-20% of the potency. This is a good thing if you are overdosing every few days. By taking with food it dampens the potency down and you don't get over cooked as much.
It is important to drink at least 4 glasses of water everyday on top of you normal tea's and coffee's etc. NDT needs to be flushed through the system or it can build up and cause joint pains etc. (Pooling) .
I strongly suggest going gluten free, if you have any sort of autoimmune condition. Most Hashimoto's do.
I eat the "grandmothers Diet" Everything in it's natural form. Example I'll eat potatoes but never eat a potato chip (crisps). Drink real full cream milk, don't touch soy/almond/oat milk etc. Eat lots of red/white meat, fish, lots of Green veggies. Never touch a shop bought pie/pastie/lasagna etc. Do not touch diet drinks or any other diet products.
Don’t feel like a failure because you cant find a stable NDT dosage. When you had a working thyroid it released thyroid hormones under the direction of your pituitary gland. This is all broken now and you are trying to regulate your hour by hour thyroid requirements manually or with an annual blood test - this is not an easy thing to achieve. Just keep following your symptoms and you will get close - maybe not perfect - but close enough to get your life back.
This is really interesting. I had a doctor many many years ago say that thyroid medicine SHOULD be taken WITH food. I don’t recall the logic and have never heard it recommended again.
The problem of taking with food is, primarily, that of consistency.
We do not eat the same food every day. (Well, most of us don't!)
Perhaps a chicken curry has the effect of reducing potency by 10%. Whereas a vegan burger causes a 20% reduction. But a light vegetable soup has virtually no effect.
That means your dose could go from 90% one day, 80% the next and 100% the day after that.
Not a good situation.
But even that, you might deal with. When you know the percentages. But if you cannot make that assessment, the effects will be towards totally random. And most of the time we cannot do more than make a vague guess.
I really don't see an advantage that it addresses overdosing. Surely the answer to that is to reduce your dose?
No not really, more just a curiosity that resurfaced after reading through this thread. I suppose if one ate the same thing with their meds each day it would have one advantage, not having to wait on an empty stomach!
1. you are going to take a set dose daily and hope your thyroid burn rate doesn't change at all ie Winter/summer, do exercise - don't do exercise.
or
2. Take as much thyroid as you need for the next 6 hours using your symptoms and knowledge of what you are about to embark on to drive the dosage.
The advantages of the 2nd way is you can split, 1/2 dose or 1/3 or 1/4 doses as you don't need to keep an hour away from food. This works much better for people who get heart Palps on NDT when they try and take a whole days worth and get smashed by T3 all at once.
With regard to food type and possible different absorption rates, Ive never noticed this but say you are right - it makes no difference as you are responding to your requirements every 5-6 hours. Just like diabetics do, they have a big meal - they know they will need a bit of extra insulin and better check the bloods too. Or changing Brands of NDT and the new one is stronger - You need to be able to recognise what’s happening and respond.
I believe anyone starting on NDT or T3 for that matter, should experiment with going hyper and hypo so they understand their symptoms and can respond appropriately and not end up crashing off it as many do.
If last time you as you do right now by taking an extra half grain (or whatever - less or more), and it appeared to work, you might do the same again. But a 20% difference due to food could well be enough to make a significant difference.
And, despite everything said about desiccated thyroid being difference to levothyroxine, I believe we still see a peak of T3 around 48 hours after ingestion.
Thus we are not getting feedback from the T4 component in a time period which relates to taking two or more doses a day.
Everyone's chemistry is different. Levo about killed me, so Armour is my drug of choice. Check all the side effects of both, and show up at your practitioners office as an expert.
Over a few months I became lethargic and then very depressed. Had to change doctors because she "didn't believe" in Armour. My hair started falling out, and I became very contentious. I am back on Armour, but it feels like a long road. Good luck!
So I started on Armour 60mg (1 grain) having been on Thyrogold. It has fast release T3 so I thought my heart would jump right out if my chest. I dropped down to 30mg for a couple of weeks and then slowly worked my way back to 60mg. I’ve been on that dose for about a year now! I’m thriving! It’s truly remarkable what a difference it makes being on a natural product (at the right dose) rather than a synthetic product.
I started on ndt and never quite got the dose stable. I then went on to t3 and t4 combination. Worked well but got horrible side effects from the t3. I am now on t4 only and I'm reasonably stable. It all depends on how your body reacts.
I’ve been on Armour since around that time too! How are you doing? I’m up to 1.75 grains now and I am finding so many improvements! But I do notice I get a really really dry throat when I raise the dose as well as completely random pains across the whole body - odd. But I’ve not been more unwell, however I have never been that prone to bugs x
You know, there was a time in my life when NDT - specifically Armour - was all I would consider using. After almost 30 years I’m just not sure anymore. I have a very accommodating FM doc so my dresser looks like a pharmacy shelf. Armour, Synthroid, T3…..I’ve had an absolutely miserable time figuring out what works since I hit menopause and added some HRT into the mix. For me, Armour worked best back when it stunk to high heaven.
I have been on Armour since 2016. And the same dosage, 30 MG. Even with my new Endocrinologist, I still am on 30 MG. My last test found me to have abnormal, high T3. I don't get to talk to my dr until October. And, even then, I will only be able to do a phone interview. He will not see me, in person, because I won't take the Covid jab. I had Covid before it was even known about and have not had it since. So I determined it is not a need in my case.
The first meds my first doctor prescribed was Levothyroxine. It made me extremely ill so she, immediately put me on Armour. Most doctors, in my insurance providers list, will not prescribe Armour for me. So I'm stuck with the one I have.
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