Utrogestan

[Peggymae-18]

I am not sure to come off HRT I am still suffering with lower back pain every night when I go to bed the pains get stronger especially when I try and relax . I have been on HRT for 4 months taken Utrogestan 100g and sanddrena gel ,the last 4 weeks I have suffered . Need some advice please.

[Buddy195 Administrator]

If Utogestran is causing issues, I’d talk to your GP about altering the dose (eg most people take 2 tablets for 2 weeks per month, but you can take one tablet daily if this doesn’t suit you). Alternatively, you could try a different progesterone medication, as some people experience side effects (& there are lots listed for progesterone!)

As I’ve mentioned previously, it may be useful to have a look at Dr Louise Newson’s free Balance App, as I find it really useful for comparing HRT medications & having up to date research articles. There is also an ability to post questions.

healthunlocked.com/redirect...

[Peggymae-18 in reply to Buddy195]

Thank you for your support.

[posthinking01]

I didn't get on with progesterone - my breasts used to swell alarmingly and other pains. are you taking any other hormones - oestrogen etc. and why were you prescribed Prog.

[Peggymae-18 in reply to posthinking01]

I got told by the GP you have to take both to level your hormones out when taken HRT.I felt ok however pains in my back are horrendous especially at night.

Thank you for your support.

[posthinking01 in reply to Peggymae-18]

Are you in the UK as very unusual a UK GP prescribing this - but of course you might be private.

[Peggymae-18 in reply to posthinking01]

Yes in the UK not private.

[posthinking01 in reply to Peggymae-18]

Very unusual may I ask why you were prescribed - just interested as a very enlightened GP - male or female? and what area ?

[posthinking01 in reply to Peggymae-18]

Try this -

progesteronetherapy.com/pro...

I am not recommending any of the amounts on the site but you will be able to run past some 'experts' on the forum etc. - did you know that progesterone and cortisol are linked it could be you are producing cortisol in too high an amount. also Vitamin B6 actually produces Progesterone and has many other benefits.

[Peggymae-18 in reply to posthinking01]

Female living in the south.I just feel coming off HRT and going back on my mirena coil felt a lot better no messing about taken tablets and gel.

[Daffers123 in reply to posthinking01]

Hello, I hadnt realised there is a connection with prog and cortisol, I have been recently changed from oral prog to cream prog, and Ive been utterly on edge (like when you have adrenals on high ) since the change . No calming effect from the prog. I will look up the site you mentioned but if you have any other comments that would be great. I even dropped the prog to every other day but I just donk know if its too high or too low! Bit like thyroid hormones!

[posthinking01 in reply to Daffers123]

I ached all over just like Peggymae - it brought it all back to me with her post and the strange thing was, it was when lying down - but there again you take prog. at night because it can make you sleepy and dangerous to drive like that if taking during the day. Prog. is the hormone that was the 'nasty' one in the pill - made you feel awful when you took it - and is the hormone that comes in that makes you grumpy during your cycle. - well it did me anyway. However, in saying that it is a marvellous hormone in so many other ways - thyroid function - weight control - responsible for zinc metabolism which I have a problem with and so many other things. It is also the pathway to making testosterone.

I will send you some bits tomorrow - but after what happened earlier today - anything I am sending is not to tell you to stop taking it but for information - because as you say - is it too little - or too much. Just like plants - if they wilt they say - too much water - if they wilt they say not enough !!!

By the way I am now taking Vitamin B6 which makes progesterone - makes me feel good too.

Be in touch......

[Peggymae-18 in reply to posthinking01]

Thankyou you have been very helpful to me much appreciated, you are correct the pain comes at night when lying down.Any information is better than no information which is helping us all

[CoeliacMum1 in reply to posthinking01]

Hi

Can you explain why you say it’s unusual for GP to prescribe, and am I correct in thinking Prog is progesterone?

If you are on about progesterone, unless you don’t have a uterus, you must take some form of progesterone to prevent endometrial lining from getting too thick (endometrial cancer risk) unless you’ve had advice from your GP or consultant to say otherwise and you’re being monitored.

I’m aware some don’t get on with progesterone and there’s some ways around this and some might not be able to have progesterone at all, but this decision should come from the individuals GP/consultant as they have all medical history as there’s risks involved.

Please correct me if this is wrong advice, but I see this on Dr Louise Newsons website (a menopause specialist) on all menopause social media & forums and from my own experiences told this and from GP advice.

So to me it’s not unusual it the norm.

I’m just a tad worried this person may stop taking progesterone on your advice, without consulting her (GP) or medical professional, who has all her medical history to make that choice.

[posthinking01 in reply to CoeliacMum1]

Your accusatory post has really upset me as at no point did I or would I tell someone to stop taking any medication - but sometimes it does help to know someone else has had problems. The lady concerned said she might go back to the coil - which is still progesterone - but her 'possibly' reverting back is nothing to do with me - but how far do you continue with something causing pain like this before asking others if this is normal.

The lady in question is going to see her GP and is having blood tests - so any change in her taking progesterone will be via her GP. Yes - Prog. is a shortened version of progesterone.

Why I am surprised GP's are prescribing prog.- well for many years - prog. was recognised by the private medicine area only, due to the NHS believing oestrogen was the "go to" hormone for all hormonal issues in women with the menopause. So I was surprised and found it very refreshing to find from this post - that they are slowly getting their act together on hormonal issues.

Let us hope they start to also prescribe other hormones needed - if blood tested as deficient - testosterone, DHEA - pregnenalone etc. - that way everyone will enjoy a level playing field of help with their hormonal issues which at the moment is only available via private medicine which is unfair to others.

[CoeliacMum1 in reply to posthinking01]

I do apologies if you feel my response was accusatory.

I asked why you thought it was very unusual to prescribe progesterone… you seemed very persistent that it was very unusual to have it and then asked why the lady was even prescribed it.

In my experience and know many others with same experience all via NHS it is normally prescribed if you have a uterus, and is mentioned in many articles, other platforms and has been on tv too… that it protects from endometrial problems.

I guess coming from the opposite side, I was surprised you asked this.

It came across to me like something was more wrong, than the right thing to do, in prescribing progesterone.

I can now see from your reply to me you clearly meant well, and you’ve not had experience of this being the norm, but I didn’t think you actually made it clear one way or another in the initial reply.

I may of misread it in the manner it was meant.

I am also unsure from this post (I have asked) if the lady had similar problems before taking progesterone.

To me it reads that the lady did experience some problems before but I have no idea if it was hrt causing it or maybe just more so.

Your reply seems to imply it’s the cause of her problems.

Have I missed something prior to my reply?

A Mirena coil contains a synthetic progestin, only a tiny amount.

Progesterone is the naturally occurring hormone, said to be the safest form by micronised capsule called Utrogestan in U.K.

No, you didn’t advise anyone not to take medication.

I put,

“I’m just a tad worried this person may stop taking progesterone on your advice,”

Maybe I should of said “stop taking progesterone based on your experience”.

Apologies this wasn’t meant to upset you.

Clearly miscommunications due too little detail at the time.

For nearly a decade I’ve experienced odd bouts to increasingly over the years severe joint & muscular aches and pains (hypothyroid myopathy)

Most likely due to under medicated and conversion problems however hrt helped.

I was not being able to relax muscles and I found progesterone part of hrt very helpful and calming, I’m aware I may be in the minority, as many can be and seem to be intolerant to it, but in essence that’s what the hormone also does, it stimulates our brains GABA receptors, the feel good part helps with anxiety and relaxes, with it those muscles relax or did with me.

It is why we are often told to take Utrogestan in the evenings as it helps with sleep, in some, it certainly helped me.

Too much and too little of this hormone seem to give side effects that are very similar regarding aches and pains… maybe further testing to rule this out if deficient or too much 🤷🏻‍♀️

As with all hormones finding our right balance is key, unfortunately perimenopause stage we have rollercoaster of hormones, one thing knocks another out of kilter, and starting new meds and regimens, can take time if our body has been deficient for a while but in my experience it helps all when we get areas of concern addressed.

[Peggymae-18 in reply to CoeliacMum1]

Thankyou so much for being so helpful l.

[posthinking01 in reply to CoeliacMum1]

You are so right that it is now on the NHS but let me tell you a story as Max Bygraves would say.

I was on the pill for over 13 years and felt amazing for the first time in my life - I now know that was because these hormones were feeding my thyroid and adrenal glands (sex hormones). Unfortunately, I was called in by my family planning Dr (yes it was that long ago and private in those days £5.00 per year) to tell me that the government was saying all women on the high dose pill had to go on the mini pill - I said OK fine. I took this mini pill and felt awful and looked awful - I doubled my weight in a short period of time - I had been a size 10 and could eat anything I liked - no weight gain - but now - I was waiting at a pedestrian crossing in my village and the Dr. stopped to let me cross - she wound down her window and said 'good god I didn't recognise you - clinic next week please. She immediately put me back on the high dose pill and I thought all was OK - but in my opinion the disruption to hormones my body needed caused a fibroid to grow - small at first - but got bigger - if I had known what I know now I would not taken the next steps but I couldn't as it was getting too large. At 33 years of age I had to have a hysterectomy with ovaries retained. My health has never been the same since.

HRT was first produced in 1942 - and was introduced into UK in 1965 - but privately. In the early 80's an MP called Theresa Gorman who had HRT when in the USA - was not happy that women in the UK could not get this medication and she felt so well on it - she fought for all us women.

She started a charity called the Amarant Trust and I sent off £20 donation to become a member thinking well I am only 30 but you never know when I might need this HRT in the future so let's support her fight. I was member 20 odd. She was amazing she stood up in 'The House' saying that if this was happening to men and their bits weren't right (it was funnier than that but I can't put in print here) they would soon find something to help. Eventually after years of battering the men in grey suits - they agreed to put it on prescription - these were tablets not the bio identical gels now being prescribed. Little did I know that after my hysterectomy I would be in trouble and need HRT - oestrogen only of course. I was back in the land of the living even though I had a fight to get put on it - but eventually I got it and boy did I feel better - energy - looked amazing - hair glossy etc. unbeknown to me my thyroid was running down - realise now I have had a problem since birth - and then was diagnosed with Lupus which was heavily controlled by the thyroid issues. 1993 until 2009 - because my blood tests were 'normal' I could not get thyroid hormone - I was seriously ill - I went everywhere to get onto thyroid hormone you name it I went there - blocked - it was the time of Dr. Peatfield and Dr. Skinner who were also warned not to prescribe unless the blood test was showing a deficiency - unfortunately I did have a thyroid problem which the test was not showing - and that is another story too - I was virtually walking around with myxoedema and had doubled my body weight from 8 stones to 16 stones rapidly. I lost my career - I could not get into any clothes other than maternity and men's tracksuits bottoms - I was devastated. Eventually on reading one of his books I phoned Dr. Hertoghe and told him my story - he told me he would see me in his clinic in Brussels and I was a patient of his for 9 years. The reason I was questioning the use of Utrogesten was because this product is a Belgium product and was not available in the UK - I know - it meant I had to keep buying it at my clinic appointments in Brussels plus all my other medication he prescribed !

My querying the use of the medication was one of - so much pleasure that other hormonal patients would not have to go out of the UK to be prescribed a vital hormone. So I actually know a lot about this product not the opposite. But my delving questions were to check whether it was being used other than for those with a uterus - as I was tested as very deficient in prog. and was given it even though I had had a hysterectomy. I was just trying to learn as I was totally unaware this was being prescribed now in the UK at GP level.

To add to this long script - I was in touch over the years with a consultant that always promoted that HRT was good for women and I had been to many of his talks in the 1980's - I rang him sometime around 2010 at his clinic as he was saying in the press that women can stay on HRT for many years - I wanted to let him know that I had been on HRT for almost 39 years with no problems - to substantiate his claim - I saw he was now retired and running a hormonal clinic and asked him if he dealt with thyroid hormones - which would save me going to Belgium - he said unfortunately not - he told me he was having trouble getting progesterone - I said well no problem in Belgium - he was ecstatic - I sent him the name and a photo of the box etc. - so I might even be responsible for the UK actually having that product on the prescribing list now. So no I wasn't querying people being on it in a negative way I was so happy at last the UK was dragging itself into the 21st century of hormonal treatment that has been around only in the private field for a long time in Europe and cost me thousands. The more this will happen then the whole spectrum of hormonal treatment will become available gradually - the DHEA etc. And to finish - the Utrogestan still did not agree with me !

Hope this now clarifies.

[CoeliacMum1 in reply to posthinking01]

So are you still buying hrt from a consultant abroad and not getting through your U.K. GP?

Are you now on thyroid medication and ok now?

You might be interested or already heard of a couple of women Drs (although in USA). Dr Jolene Brighten and Sara Gottfried MD both talk extensively on womens hormones and thyroid.

They specialise in womens hormones not just gynaecological areas.

I just read their posts with much interest.

Don’t get me started on the male dominance in medical/pharmaceutical world.

My Daughter sees this still, even though she is more qualified than some of her elder male peers in the same job.

Men are more likely to be approached first as still seen “as the breadwinner”.

She’s doesn’t suffer fools gladly, as they say, and not frightened to stand up to this hierarchy.

Hopefully as more women step into these roles we will see some change.

There’s definitely a start in women health and menopause.

Thank goodness 😊

[posthinking01 in reply to CoeliacMum1]

No I stopped going 2018 - and get everything I need at GP including thyroid hormone.

[Peggymae-18 in reply to CoeliacMum1]

Thank you for your concern I am still taking HRT and going for blood tests next week .I was only asking if anyone had been suffering with back pain since taken HRT. I had a coil for many years and did not suffer like this. Thank you again everyone has been so helpful.

[CoeliacMum1 in reply to Peggymae-18]

Sorry to hear you’re getting these problems .

Thanks for clarifying,

I had opposite from hrt actually.

And why I asked.

Possibly an imbalance issue with hormones 🤷🏻‍♀️ let’s hope tests show them the problem.

Hope they find the root cause very soon, as I’ve suffered terribly for nearly a decade with similar symptoms.

But a combination of hrt & T3 seems to be working my TSH was too high and not converting thyroid hormones and FT3 is still low 🤦🏻‍♀️ … I am still on going with endocrinologist 🙄

[posthinking01]

Hi it's a terrible shame - I too was very low in progesterone but was so disappointed I could not take it - felt awful. I am impressed with your GP I must say - but wonder if they really know how these hormones can behave in different individuals.

[Peggymae-18]

I just don’t know what todo for best. I am having a full blood count next week.I must say my GP is lovely.

[posthinking01 in reply to Peggymae-18]

Amazing GP - are you in/near Surrey area by any chance -good idea to have bloods done -please let us know.

[CoeliacMum1]

Do you know that hrt is the causation of your problems or was there problems before hrt?

I went on hrt for back pelvic pain it helped me somewhat, although hypothyroid myopathy is part of my problem and getting T3 helped me even more.

However I suffered bleeds on hrt as put on continuous too soon… and now sequential regimen, which suits me better.

I had a scan for these bleeds as being of a certain age on hrt etc this triggered an urgent scan as endometrial lining can get thicker with use of oestrogen and why we take progesterone to keep lining healthy.

However scan showed my lining was normal thank goodness for progesterone, but I had adenomyosis which can cause pain this often subsides after menopause.

Inform your GP or health care provider of your problems on hrt if you think they’re the cause, they maybe able to change to something that suits you better.

[arTistapple]

Peggymae -18 have you had a recent investigation into your back pain? Maybe it’s time to look again and not rely completely (if you are) on your hormonal status. Exhausted muscles and connective tissue can cause ‘slippage’ of joints/vertebrae/sacroiliac. I hardly believe I am saying this to someone with thyroid problems because I find looking after my muscles nigh on blooming impossible because of all our other complex stuff going on. HRT can contribute to ‘softening’ of connective tissues, just like some women in pregnancy.

[Josephineinamachine]

I’ve not experienced back pain on HRT. Progesterone is very difficult for me to take however…lots of bloating and low mood etc. not what you want on top of thyroid bloating and low mood. Difficult to know what’s causing what! Utrogestan is considered gold standard I believe though in the world of HRT - most bio identical. Think you would be best talking to your GP (if you can even get an appointment 😵‍💫)