Levo over to Metavive comments pls : Hi Briefly... - Thyroid UK

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Levo over to Metavive comments pls

Jeppy profile image

Hi

Briefly has anybody swopped over with success please? my feeling is I’ve given levo a long shot with small success that even when at top of range the t3 remained down there, gut feeling to try more natural now, Dr P s words

As hrt is already heaving me out of a horrid long standing hole its truly amazing, unsure of the best route though and considering a Prof appointment in a few weeks - any thoughts appreciated as latest bloods TSH 3.5 but T4 lowest ever in range when usually at top end

Can somebody explain pls why I was given levo when my own t4 level was good? Sorry if simplistic

🌸best wishes all

61 Replies

Jeppy,

Yes, there are members medicating Metavive, but not myself.

I have answered your post so it goes onto todays 'daily feed' and hopefully be noticed by those members.

If you are worried about changing meds my suggestion would be to supplement the glandular alongside Levo in an effort to get conversion enzymes working better. You mention Dr P and this was his protocol although used Nutri Thyroid which isn’t now available unfortunately.

How much you reduce Levo and how much Metavive you introduce would be dependant upon where FT4 levels are atm.

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to radd

Thanking you. Very kind thought🥰

Dr P didn’t mention Nutri one - I saw him just literally b4 he retired. He told me where to get Metavive

It’s a maize as im now on hrt which I want to shout from hilltops after years of loosing life quality & the far reaching affects

I recognise my thyroid meds are going to be wonky with the hrt for a bit

The problem seems to be getting a plan in place ( as im darn tired of paying for panels I can’t really stretch to but health comes first, right)

and unfortunately Iv not got good gp backup as they don’t see why I should check they don’t sit on same page at all as often the case. I’m quite envious now of those that get the help

If I pay to go with a professor I’d better wait till I know hrt has settled for a few weeks

It could be worthwhile if he sorts me out via gp prescription

Do nhs still prescribe ndt if via a prof🤔. Or is it not accessible at all do you know

(I’m in Cheshire)

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to radd

Maybe il bite bullet and swop to metavive as I was subclinical and I believe levo doesn’t cut it for me and that refuctions of ostregens pushed me into hypo slowly

…Il intro it with my levo and see where I get to over next weeks

One step at a time ,

Then see if I need further help after blood panel etc

Thanks a lot

Always good to talk x. ( even to yourself on paper 😂)

👍🏼

I have used Metavive in the past and I am about to start again because the price of Armour NDT which I currently use is going through the roof. How you make it work for you is very individual. I will phase it in slowly as I phase out the Armour. I currently take T3 with Armour and anticipate continuing to do so with Metavive.

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to June25

Thanking you

So did it do the job for you im guessing Armour you preferred?

Can you get ndt on nhs any means do you know

Thanks agsin

There's pros and cons for both Armour and Metavive. It is really a case of horses for courses. I'm afraid I can't help you with NDT on the NHS.

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to June25

👍🏼 Ty

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to June25

At least metavive is accessible and priced ok

June25 profile image
June25 in reply to Jeppy

Yes, that's 2 of the pros for Metavive.

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to June25

👏👍🏼

Hi JeppyI started slowly with metavive I by reducing Levo by 25mcg and replacing it with 1 metavive I so I was on 75mcg Levo and 1 metavive I. I continued like this for several months & even added in some T3 but this made me hypo so about a year after initiating metavive I cut out all Levo and I was on around 9 metavive I which was way too much (for me) as I had hair loss & high pulse & unable to sleep.

Over the next year I reduced metavive I and got to the point where my T3 was quite high (at v top of range) but my T4 was not at top end of range. So I reduced metavive I and replaced it with metavive III. I’m currently taking 4 metavive III only as I had a bad attack of asthma last week as I think I went a bit hyper so completely cut out the 1 metavive I that was taking in addition to the 4 metavive III.

Hope this helps. It’s taken me a couple of years to get to this point and I’m not sure I’m optimal tbh especially since cutting out the metavive I a week ago but will be getting my bloods done soon so it will be interesting to see if my symptoms correlate with how I’ve been feeling over the last few days (a tad tired) so may need to go back up to add in the metavive I.

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

So. Thanking you

So you blamed high metavive on hair loss and pulse ?

Then. Did it matter your t4 wasn’t at top but t3 was ? I’m unsure here, how did you feel then?

So pls tell me difference between Metavive 1 and 111?

Are they both porcine is it just higher dose ?( although unsure how it’s measured as you’re not sure what’s in them are you)

Sounds ominous saying that 😄

Noelnoel profile image
Noelnoel in reply to Jeppy

Hi Jeppy

Met l and ll are porcine. Met ll is double the dose of Met l

Met lll and lV are bovine. Met lV is double the dose of Met lll

Porcine glandulars are said to be closest in composition to the human thyroid gland

I take a combination of both and am currently in the process of raising the bovine because my last test showed that my FT4 was below range. I knew something was amiss because the weight was creeping up again

I don’t think it’s wise to stop a current med and introduce Metavive, particularly if already hypo. If hypo, personally, I would introduce 0.5 - 1 capsule, wait and listen to my body. If after 10 days, or more even, all feels ok, I’d increase the Metavive by a further 0.5 of a capsule and wait some more. Again, at least another 10 days

The way I would do it would be to keep doing the same to the point where I felt ever so slightly over-medicated - for me that means headaches, tremors, sweats. I would then really gradually reduce the other thyroid replacement that I’m taking

I would do it almost imperceptibly slowly over a good period of time, always listening intently to my body for signs that I’m reaching my optimal dose

Of course whilst decreasing the previous hormone replacement, levels will fall and more Metavive will probably be required but not necessarily and here’s where trialling low and slow comes into its own; changes in symptoms won’t be missed and can be acted upon. Bear in mind that anyway, Metavive is gentle and subtle (unless you take too much at once or it happens to disagree with you) and it’s quite easy to presume that nothing’s happening. Rest assured there will be changes to blood composition, they just haven’t been noticed/felt yet

Having said that, even when labs show that an individual has good levels of FT4 and FT3 it doesn’t always equate to feeling well. Mostly it does but some people have a condition, whose name escapes me, whereby T3 can’t get into the cells

You may also be one of the unlucky ones where the nucleotides in Metavive cause problems. They did for me, or so I thought, so I stopped taking it but I’ve recently re-introduced it and I’m fine. I think the problem for me (classic) was I became impatient and took too much too soon after having a period of four weeks without taking it, as per endo’s instructions but that’s another story!

As is so often said on here - and it happens to be true - no one method fits all but if you go carefully, keep calm and be patient, whichever hormone replacement you decide on, you’re more likely to have success and by the way, perseverance is crucial. Chopping and changing too quickly is just confusing for mind and body and will ultimately delay progress

The above is in no way an instruction on what you should do, it’s just the way I would go about it having learnt that rushing things doesn’t usually work

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Noelnoel

Thanking you. Very helpful And clear. Patience. Yes. I’m shocked so many seem to be taking it. And under Endo? Did he she prescribe it?

I took it initially Met 1 and felt nothing and head got turned to go levo route first so pity there

You know your body well!!

Id stick with Met 1. Why pls do you take both and not more of 1

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Noelnoel

& why mix porcine & bovine 🤔

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

I think you were brave going it alone or were you under someone to advise

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

Please let me know how you go on if dont mind plus hope it’s ironing it out for you

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Jeppy

Thanks all for responding! !! 🥰

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

So. I dont understand sorryIs it ok to mix porcine with bovine? How come you didn’t take Met2 if not a daft question

Polly91 profile image
Polly91 in reply to Jeppy

Might be easier if you private message as we are not allowed to discuss dosages etc for products like metavive on this forum. Thanks

Hi JeppyI was on 100 levo, ft3 very low, ft4 low and I felt bad. My funcional doc changed me over to metavive - straight swap...i went very hypo despite increasing dose several times. I think the change over should have been very gradual. In the end went back to levo 75 and 1 x metavive 1 which is 40mg porcine (reduced from 1x metavive 11 which is 80mg and was giving me palpitations). My ft3 is up 74% through range and ft4 is 67% through range. I am waiting till next test to see how I feel and see if I stay where I am or reduce levo / increase metavive. I would recommend doing a gradual intro of metavive...

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Sandytango

Hi. Thankyou. Helpful thanks. You must have felt really dreadful as you were hypo anywaySo gathering there is quite a difference between 1, 2 and 111?

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Sandytango

So when you say 40, does this mean anything I can compare with do you know pls

Yes it all seems a bit random as to what is actually in the various metavives. I tried bovine versiond first which i think really sent me badly hypo - <edited by Admin>. The porcine def works better as an equivalent ie i was on 100 levo, now on 75 + 40 metavive and I feel much better...at the moment!!!

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Sandytango

👍🏼👍🏼

Hi JeppyI was under the care of a naturopath so not going it alone! I’m not that brave!

Metavive II is double the dose of metavive I.

I think the idea was to get my T4 up a bit more towards top end of range hence gradually reduced met I and increased met III. Incidentally my TSH was 0.01 or undetectable.

When my T3 gets near top of range (>6 can’t recall units) then I do notice hair loss so the ideal for me is around 5 or 5.5 which is what I’m trying to achieve.

Of course I’d be happy to share how I get on. But if you haven’t heard from me do get in touch in a couple of weeks!

Good luck

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

Thanks!!! Very helpful. I had high t4 but low t3 and TSH at about 4

Polly91 profile image
Polly91 in reply to Jeppy

About 4 years ago my TSH was around 1-2 and T4 high end of range but T3 was always around 4. Metavive & lots of other supplements like vit D, C, magnesium, selenium and zinc & iodine really helped me.

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

Great to hear as similar numbersI hope levo hasn’t snookered much own t4🤔 I take the supps. Not iodine I thought that had to be tested first🤔 sorry if wrong. Medichecks stopped testing it too

Polly91 profile image
Polly91 in reply to Jeppy

I’m seeing a practitioner who is iodine literate.

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

What is that pls

Polly91 profile image
Polly91 in reply to Jeppy

A practitioner who understands and knows how to treat with iodine.

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

😊 I just meant how does he judge. Is it from a blood test

Polly91 profile image
Polly91 in reply to Jeppy

No not that scientific I’m afraid. Just a patch test on wrist his belief is that most of us are deficient. I read a book call Iodine Crisis which helped me understand it better.

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

👍🏼 Nassai iodine I read was the thing yrs ago

helvella profile image
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Polly91

Unfortunately, the iodine patch test has been demonstrated to be unreliable.

It is affected by things like humidity and atmospheric pressure.

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to helvella

👍🏼Thanks

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

But my TSH was 4.6. T4 good t3 at 4

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

Do you still need the supps when your well. Exspect so

Polly91 profile image
Polly91 in reply to Jeppy

Yes I do

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

Can you tell if lacking in any particular one I’m amazed others seem to know

Polly91 profile image
Polly91 in reply to Jeppy

I think for thyroid health and good conversion of T4 to T3 : B complex , selenium and zinc are important. Also I’ve learned many are deficient in magnesium and Vit D so I carry on with these.

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

Me too

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

Now I’m thinking that levo May have stopped by usual good T4 as latest result is at the lowest my t4 has ever been But having started HRT it’s not reliable yet

HRT does increase your need for thyroid hormone.

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Polly91

Yes👍🏼

Hello Jeopy,I'm one of those Happy Bunnies who successfully switched from Levothyroxine that was destroying my health and my life to NDT. Initially taking ERFA and later METAVIVE as Erfa was becoming hard to come by and way more expensive. I would not risk doing this alone and so consulted a homeopathic, medically qualified doctor and would suggest you do the same. The endocrine system is highly sensitive and can easily go out of whack so does need sympathetic monitoring Metavive is produced in the UK. It is an individual choice to take either porcine or bovine NDT. I take the porcine as I don't eat red meat and pig flesh is closest to human. I'd prefer not to have that either but am grateful that it has helped me to function more like a normal human being than being a shockingly overweight apology for one. And yes, the weight just came off all by itself. A normally healthy person will not be overweight. Avoid levo and also soya products. The latter not good for thyroid types either. All good wishes to you Thyrigia

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Thyrigia

Thanking you!! All of youIl reread and note

I’m afraid Iv snookered my t4 with levo I supppose il need to just see and make a slow very s l o w swop system

But with my t3 always around a 4 I’m hoping this too will improve. Mainly TSH to get down. It’s 3.7 recent

Thanks & good wishes

PS. Blood test results using NDT willbe very different to those on synthetic lebighyrixine. For example TSH will be much, much lower. This means that you really need someone used to NDT to interpret your blood test results. Thyrigia

I've been on 75mcg levothyoxine and began adding Metavive to try and kick-start a version of T3. It was a case of self-medicating and keeping precise notes on a day by day basis. After three months I did the full panel of thyroid tests - and here - new comments by Dr Sarah Myhill is perhaps the most up to date and relevant for all who are hypothyroid.

I took myself off the Metavive after reading that the adrenals must be stabilised before going on to Metavive. Now I'm Adrenavive II, starting at three a day and now I'm working up to six a day, spaced increases every two to three weeks. Stability is key and it's hard self-dosing but I gradually am beginning to see small things: thicker hair, stronger nails, better sleep. energy levels are still dire though.

Ongoing ...

Noelnoel profile image
Noelnoel in reply to Santolina

Hi Santolina

How did you establish that your adrenals needed attention? Also, for how long do you intend taking adrenavive?

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Noelnoel

Difficult one. I saw Dr Peatfield now retired he did older fashioned balancing tests

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Noelnoel

…I had a synachen test only because I mention that Dr P told me they were off but unsure this test does much. I’m sorry I can’t be more helpful

Noelnoel profile image
Noelnoel in reply to Jeppy

It’s fine Jeppy, I was asking Santolina because s/he said:

I took myself off the Metavive after reading that the adrenals must be stabilised before going on to Metavive. Now I'm Adrenavive II, starting at three a day and now I'm working up to six a day, spaced increases every two to three weeks.

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Noelnoel

Understand. I took Adrenavive for a good while I tried Nutri too but felt Adrenavive helped. I reached a point having read something along the way that made me Unsure if to continueHard to assess them

I’m going to Myhill info to read

Noelnoel profile image
Noelnoel in reply to Jeppy

Yes, adrenavive’s a good product

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Noelnoel

Like you said listen to intuition :)

Schetchy plan as hrt is lowering levo absorbtion anyway and want to come away from it

But also may have a zoom with prof so unsure when tbh as need good levels for an op 🤦‍♀️

Santolina profile image
Santolina in reply to Noelnoel

I recognised the symptoms of long term adrenal stress. Like sequencing related to IT issues, the body is the same: you have to get all your ducks in a row -as far as possible - for the connections to work. These days, environmental issues have hijacked our endocrine systems and so the process is combined with clean eating and litres of water per day. My go-to-doc is Sarah Myhill who has a website re adrenal/thyroid issues. Here she talks about 'the gut' as well, how connected brain/gut/thyroid/adrenals are. She also has a new analysis of the absurdity of the how our docs get thyroid analysis wrong. FROM all that, I'll have a blood test in two months - the full panel. Then I'll move to combining levothyroxine with Metavive for 6/8 weeks and then another blood test based on Myhill's analysis. Yes, it's self-diagnosing, but carefully done in lieu of docs who've messed all of us around for decades. PLUS, I'm quite certain that levo generics are NOT consistent amongst manufacturers which also makes accurate readings a nightmare.

It's not easy - this site has been going for years as have several others. We're all saying the same thing. 'Stop the Thyroid Madness' is also the best link for absolute good advice.

Jeppy profile image
Jeppy in reply to Santolina

Thanking youThank goodness for SMyhill yes

Good luck. I’m cross i went levo route as very nearly didnt

Noelnoel profile image
Noelnoel in reply to Santolina

Sounds as though you have a plan. All the best to you in that

And VERY useful thread here !

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