Does anyone else have extremely poor nail quality? My nails are in a terrible condition..if they grow 1 mm, they split and break. They look like I do 15 hours of manual labour a day. I have considered acrylic nails but think that would only make matters worse.
This is accompanied by increased hair loss. I have not lost this much hair since before my hypo diagnosis over 20 years ago.
I know nutrients play a role, but I just don´t want to take any hair and nail support supplement as I might be getting things I don´t need. There are also nail polishes said to strengthen/harden nails, but I doubt they would help if the problem is caused by nutritional deficiencies.
When I google my symptoms, I keep getting "iodine deficiency" as a probable cause. I have always avoided iodine like the plague as it´s said to be bad for people with autoimmune thyroiditis.
I don´t know if these symptoms are thyroid-related (although they are common in undiagnosed hypothyroidism, and possibly also hyperthyrodism?), but wanted to know if anyone else on thyroid hormone replacement has experienced these problems and if you found a solution?
Unfortunately, my experience is that most doctors are clueless so would not be much help. I have much more trust in the knowledge of fellow thyroid patients!
That's interesting london81. My nails always split in the corners.........had this problem for as long as I can remember. I can't open a jar without my thumbnail splitting, and I found out last year that of all my low nutrients folate has always been the worst.
I had to stop taking the B Complex a few months ago due to gut issues, and they are not good at the moment. I'm back on it from today.......so fingers crossed.
Mine are always better in the summer, but I think that is probably due to circulation and the cold weather in winter rather than vit D as I've continued to take this.
I haven't found a solution PurpleCat71, and will watch this thread with interest. x
NB My nails also got thicker and ridged last year round about Coeliac dx, and although my iron is better this hasn't improved either. I file them down with a block.
I've read that it could be caused by poor blood circulation when hypo. I found that massaging my nails with hemp balm improved them no end. But, I don't know if it was the hemp balm itself or the massage. Of course, you do need good levels of all B vits for good hair and nails, but Igennus B complex is not the best one to take because it contains vit C, which can affect the way B12 works in the body. B12 and vit C should be taken at least two hours apart.
Greygoose, I am so disappointed as my nails have been horrific for a couple of years or more and I had hoped that Thorne Basic B could be the answer. Unfortunately I have just Googled it and it seems anti epilepsy drugs may not be compatible. It particularly mentions phenytoin which is one of the AE drugs I am on. 😥. Thought this might be of interest to other members.
These meds deplete these nutrients, meaning you need to supplement with them, just take 2-4hrs apart. A basic B complex is not enough... you're looking at 25-50mg for full benefits
Oh gosh that’s worrying. I’ve been taking Thorne B Complex & have Epilepsy on Lamotrigine. Guess I will need to check with Epilepsy nurse or Endocrinologist when I get my appointment in May. Thanks.
Oh dear anti Seizure meds deplete B vitamins, B6-7-9-12, and depletion of these actually causes Seizures, try a Nature's Best B50 complex and a B6@50mg and most likely you can reduce the phenytoin, or at least reduce the meds side effects. You could be taking Seizure meds fir a B vitamin deficiency issue. It's all I did. Phenytoin also depletes Omega-3 DHA, vitamin D, thyroid hormone FT4 causing at least drug induced sub-clinical hypothyroidism.
Thank you Roadrunner. Just did a reply then lost it!I didn’t know about the problem between AE drugs and B vitamins. Will ask my consultant what he thinks I should take. My epilepsy is due to an arteriovenus malformation in the head which decided to have a hissyfit a few years ago causing no end of trouble followed by DVT and PE. I’m therefore cautious about what to take and when. I have hyperthyroidism with toxic multinodular goitre. By the way I’m on carbimazole. Thanks again.
I would always check everything out. Thank you for your consideration. I can just see your next response regarding peripheral neuropathy which I also have. Thankfully mildly. Will now read the rest of the responses.
High doses of vitamin B6, which can start at a few milligrams, can be dangerous and cause peripheral neuropathy - a common reason to be taking B6 in the first place.
Below is something I have posted several times:
The taking of B-complexes, and of just B6, has often been discussed here. I, along with several others, have pointed out that high doses of B6 should be avoided as they can cause neuropathy - one of the symptoms that it is sometimes taken to help relieve.
This paper, from 2017 has an explanation for this phenomenon.
What it doesn't do is give information about doses. It appears to say that, while pyridoxine can cause neuropathy, other forms of B6, such as pyridoxal-5'-phosphate, do not cause this issue.
1 Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Maastricht University, Maastricht, The Netherlands. Electronic address: m.vrolijk@maastrichtuniversity.nl.
2 Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Maastricht University, Maastricht, The Netherlands; Netherlands Food and Consumer Product Safety Authority (NVWA), Utrecht, The Netherlands.
3 National Institute for Public Health and the Environment (RIVM), Bilthoven, The Netherlands.
4 Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Maastricht University, Maastricht, The Netherlands.
Abstract
Vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin that functions as a coenzyme in many reactions involved in amino acid, carbohydrates and lipid metabolism. Since 2014, >50 cases of sensory neuronal pain due to vitamin B6 supplementation were reported. Up to now, the mechanism of this toxicity is enigmatic and the contribution of the various B6 vitamers to this toxicity is largely unknown. In the present study, the neurotoxicity of the different forms of vitamin B6 is tested on SHSY5Y and CaCo-2 cells. Cells were exposed to pyridoxine, pyridoxamine, pyridoxal, pyridoxal-5-phosphate or pyridoxamine-5-phosphate for 24h, after which cell viability was measured using the MTT assay. The expression of Bax and caspase-8 was tested after the 24h exposure. The effect of the vitamers on two pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes was also tested. Pyridoxine induced cell death in a concentration-dependent way in SHSY5Y cells. The other vitamers did not affect cell viability. Pyridoxine significantly increased the expression of Bax and caspase-8. Moreover, both pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes were inhibited by pyridoxine. In conclusion, the present study indicates that the neuropathy observed after taking a relatively high dose of vitamin B6 supplements is due to pyridoxine. The inactive form pyridoxine competitively inhibits the active pyridoxal-5'-phosphate. Consequently, symptoms of vitamin B6 supplementation are similar to those of vitamin B6 deficiency.
The problems with taking high doses of B6 and neuropathy relates to doses of 150mg of B6 and higher on a daily basis, in fact B6 at 50 mg is a common treatment for seizures, along with a B Complex
Not just the dose, but the vitamer that has been taken.
This 2018 paper disagrees that such high doses are a necessary precursor to B6 neuropathy:
The use of vitamin B6 dietary supplements has gained much attention over the past years, since numerous cases of neuropathies have been reported due to the chronic use of these supplements, often in megadoses (>25 mg/day) [[2], [3], [4], [5]]. Therefore, the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) lowered the advised safe upper level of vitamin B6 from 100 mg/day to 25 mg/day [6]. Moreover, the Netherlands Food and Consumer Product Safety Authority (NVWA) recently advised to lower the maximum doses of vitamin B6 in supplements to 21 mg/day in the Netherlands, partly based on spontaneous reports of neuropathic complaints associated with vitamin B6 supplements. This advice was adopted by the Dutch Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport. From October 1st, 2018, the maximum daily dose of vitamin B6 in dietary supplements may not exceed 21 mg. However, still new cases of vitamin B6 (concerning doses both higher and lower than 21 mg/day) related neuropathies are being reported to the Netherlands Pharmacovigilance Centre Lareb, which filed 90 cases of neuropathy associated with vitamin B6 in 2018
The problem with this report as in many reports is that its focused on B6 alone, B6 needs B2 also, they never look at the cofactor nutrients same as folks feel rough in high D3 without magnesium, the very nutrients needed to make these nutrients biologically effective. A lot of people are unaware of nessicary cofactor nutrients. This info you provided is flawed for the reason/s mentioned... Hope that helps
It also neans their most likely deficient in the cofactor nutrient/s also... and the neuropathy is due to B2 deficiency... or something else, and yes you are correct some people xan suffer with high doses its because we are different also...
Just take the B complex 3hrs away from Seizure meds. Two other nutrients responsible for poor nails are iron deficiency caused by Levothyroxine and Omega 3 DHA mainly
I've posted before plus its in a pubmed report, saying iron levels were better with lower levels of levothyroxine taken, plus in another report I have.. Levothyroxine depletes Iron levels
Oh, I'm so sorry to put you to all this trouble! But don't you think it's a good idea to give details if you're going to scare the proverbial out of people like that?!? After all, all you have to do is copy and paste. Is that too much effort? Pretty sure that if you asked for help, plenty of people would put themself out far more than that in order to help you.
Besides, that link you have given is really not much use, is it. No explanations of any kind. How would levo cause iron deficiency? That's what I want to know - and so will a lot of other people. And, just because they say it, doesn't make it true. I cannot find any reference to it anywhere else. But, one thing I have noticed is that often the side-effects attributed to levo are very often the symptoms of the hypothyroidism itself, and nothing to do with the levo. Or they are the results of taking too much or too little, but still not caused by the levo itself.
I'm just fed up with folks saying NO IT DONT DEPLETE IRON basically calling me a lyer in the way you asked NO IT DOESN’T maybe you should ask before calling me a lyer
I didn't call you a liar. Just because I don't believe something you've said, doesn't mean I think you're lying. I'm sure you believe it. Lying would be telling me something you don't believe. And, I did have a search round before questioning it, but I couldn't find anything to back you up.
But, in any case, if you think people are accusing you of lying, don't you think it would be a good idea to provide as much proof as you can when you say something like that? Then they couldn't call you a liar, could they.
However, the link you gave me proves nothing. I am not convinced.
But I have yet to see anything other than the single mention in the document you linked to which asserts that levothyroxine itself depletes iron.
Please either provide a proper reference or stop posting the claim.
Here is a PubMed search for "iron deficiency" AND "levothyroxine". There are about 13 pages of results. If it does, I'd expect at least one of the papers listed would say so.
That´s interesting, since it is often said that hypothyroidism (lack of thyroxine) causes problems with low ferritin and iron. It would be interesting to see the articles you refer to.
Here's one for the last time, ots about time you all get the fact of medications downsides, it's these nutrient depletiobs that cause 70-100% of the side effects on nearly all medications... pharmacysolutionsonline.com...
but that pharmacy solutions 'reference' 'is basically just statement on an advert .. with no reference to what evidence the statement is based on .... if you can't provide something more credible or scientific than just a statement in an advert , people will quite rightly continue to question the idea that levo depletes iron.
" you keep asking for proof, I do " That's the problem though .. you don't .. i've asked you several times over many months each time you state this, to provide a reference ... but you only ever give a link to one advert . Sorry , but one advert just doesn't cut it as proof of anything at all .
There are many possible reasons for low iron in hypothyroidism.
It is possible that low iron contributes to the development of hypothyroidism.
Digestion is impaired in hypothyroidism, which reduces the ability to release any iron in food so that it can be absorbed. (We see repeatedly that hypothyroidism often reduces stomach acidity. That would make sense.)
There is also the possibility that hypothyroidism results in a greater rate of loss of iron.
always great even amazing info from you greygoose 🙏💕. Mostly upset me to know that most if not any are available to us neither at dr's office nor on labels of supplements or medications info. Thank you for the latest to me : B12 & Vit C ‼️ 🙏🙏🙏
My mum has bad nails due to psoriasis and I got her something call hoof hard as nails (if I remember the name right) online. She says it has made a difference.
Hi PurpleCat71Try Collagen. My nails were always shocking my whole life. I could never grow them, because they split, were brittle and had vertical ridges.
I now take a complete collagen complex (Piping Rock does a multi-collagen protein, which works for me) and my nails have grown really strong. I even have to cut and file them, which I NEVER had to do in my whole life.
That's interesting, another user here reported the same problems last week I think and I too have similar issues. I know for a fact that if I'm under-medicated for my hypo, aside from other issues, it's directly reflected in the awful state of my nails!
Hypothyroidism definitely makes our nails & hair much thinner and brittle. Apart from getting your replacement hormones right, I have found that collagen does make them much stronger.My dosage of hormones is still not right, but my nails are much better ☺️
Hmmm... I've checked through various sources of collagen and now I'm really confused! There are so many different formulas and forms from creams to pills to liquids, which is the most effective? My vits are okay and I've given up on getting my thyroid tested, so as long as I don't feel like shit, at least I can try and deal with some of the symptoms Levothyroxine doesn't touch, especially my nails and hair. So what brand do you use please (PM me if you don't want to advertise)?
Well I just bought 'Pure Marine Collagen' by Kiki Health and it contains nothing but hydrolysed marine collagen, so we'll see what happens. I'll let you know after a few weeks if it does the trick.
I did loads of research, after spending good money on the popular one that didn’t work 😂 . The Piping Rock has got all of the collagen proteins. Not just the ‘beauty’ ones. The other one I had only had some of them.
I would try and get tested for both anaemia and Iron Deficiency Anaemia. The latter means checking Ferritin which GPS don’t always do even when testing for anaemia (IDA is a type of anaemia caused by low Ferritin). My nails are crap and I have hair loss. My haemoglobin is at the top of the range but my Ferritin is at the bottom, and I’m sure it’s the cause. You want to above 80 to support hair/nails (mine is 18 at mo and has been as low as 7).
Also just noticed you’re same age as me - menopause can of course cause hair loss and poor nails. I’ve been on HRT for 4 months now but not seen any improvement. I do still have regular heavy periods hence the low Ferritin.
Likewise, I have bendy soft peeling nails along with vertical ridges … my vitamins are good place along with iron etc .I’ve had this all my life so perimenopausal has altered them very little.
My hair isn’t too bad a little thinner at front the past 15yrs but you wouldn’t describe me as having poor hair.
I’ve used all manner of products, oils creams etc and still no good.
Mine have been rubbish all my life - thin, soft and bendy as a baby's, even before my thyroid troubles. When I'm in really good health and optimum nutrients they get harder but that just means the tips break off rather than bend, because theyre so thin. Those gel nail polishes worked but removing them caused more problems - nails just too fragile. Only thing that has worked for me is something called IBX nail treatment. It soaks in to bond the nail layers together, and is not visible, so your own nails look normal, and grow. But it has to be put on professionally and not many salons do it. Only found 1 in my town, and then it's a regular cost. (Sigh)
Hi since I’ve been taking Vit D, Thorne Basic B, B12 and Thorne Selenium my nails have been so much better than ever. Before I would often have thumbnails constantly split down the sides.
The supplements haven’t made a great deal of difference to my T4/T3 conversion but I feel good and don’t have any hypo signs other than an total inability to lose any weight!
Hi I know what you mean with split nails. Looking iodine up with thyroxine it’s because we don’t have the thyroid to process iodine. So looks like we are stuck with split nails until someone comes up with a n answer. I put nail glue on with a split nail. Hope this helps:))
Yes I do and take levotyroxine for 20years... keep complain and not getting anywhere ...
Thanks to everyone who took the time the reply! This seems to be a more common problem than I imagined.I will try collagen as I think it does not have any particular side effects and can be taken with meals. Also, as pointed out, it would be wise to choose a vit B complex without vit C.
Iron and ferritin are tricky; mine have previously been low, I have taken prescription iron without result, I have tried various supplements such as Optiferrin with both iron and vit C, and I recently switched to Blood Vitaliy by Ancestral (combined with high doses of vit C). I also tried beef liver without much improvement, but someone here suggested I try beef spleen instead as it contains more iron.
I had such high hopes for Thyroid-S, but I cannot say it has made much of a difference to my nails/hair quality compared to levo.
I don´t understand the statement about our thyroid glands not being around to handle iodine...as far as I know, iodine is necessary for a healthy thyroid to make enough hormones, but I am not sure how that applies to us since we are getting the hormones from pills. Although I know some alternative practitioners recommend iodine for Hashi patients, I took iodine briefly years ago at the recommendation of one of them and felt awful. I´d really hesitate to try it again unless I knew for a fact that I was deficient.
I've had Hashi and hypo for 40 years. My nails have been a mess. Cracking, splitting. Started taking Biotin and they have greatly improved. I wanted to take collagen but I thought it constipated me. The Biotin has been the answer for me.
That's funny! I'm doing the reverse. I tried Biotin but had a reaction to it, as well as feeling bloated & thrushy. I am now about to try Pure Hydrolyzed Collagen to try and help my nails, skin, hair thinning & some bone density loss. We shall see 🤞🙂
Have you tried Pure Hydrolyzed Collagen? I am going to try that for my nails, hair thinning & bone density loss. It might be worth a try as well as taking B vits.
in reply to
Thanks! I will look into it as several members have recommended collagen!
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
Is this poor conversion?
Thyroxine and sleep quality
Flaking Nails
Am I a poor converter?
Biotin for hair and nails, even eyebrows.
