Question to those who have tried NDT alone and NDT + T3

Has anyone tried both and found NDT alone to work best?

I am asking as it´s often said that T3 is the active hormone, and that too much T4 will just build up in the body, be execreted or converted to rT3, so it sounds logical to take some NDT and add T3 to avoid having too much T4 in the body.

However, after experimenting during the holidays, I find NDT alone to work better. I have tried to replace one grain of NDT (Thyroid-S) with 6.25 mcg of T3 (Unipharma T3) but I notice a difference: on NDT alone, I feel warmer and more energetic. Surprisingly enough, it seems that T4 is doing something for me that T3 is not...even more surprising: I feel a difference after just a couple of days, whereas I always believed that any increase or decrase in the T4 dosage would not be felt for weeks, given the relatively long half-life of T4.

It would be interesting to know if others have noticed the same thing.

[pennyannie]

Hello PurpleCat :

I've tried most combinations and have settled on Natural Desiccated Thyroid as I find it softer on my body, and a lot easier than working out where my T3 and T4 need to sit to be well on Big Pharma's branded Liothyronine and Levothyroxine.

NDT was used successfully for over 100 years to treat hypothyroidism and one simply dosed up in small increments to the relief of symptoms - job done:

The " science " of blood tests, ranges and guidelines seemed at all converge about the same time as Big Pharma launched their thyroid hormone replacement medications T3 and T4 in the middle of the last century.

I think we need to keep open minds and whilst the 1/4 T3/T4 ratio in NDT suits many, there are those of us, who can't convert the T4 as well as they might and need to add in a little extra T3 just as there are others who find the NDT T3/T4 ratio too heavy on the T3 and add in a little T4 when very close to optimal.

It reminds me of making scones and whilst the basic mix works well, some like adding that extra pinch of cream of tartar and that extra pinch of bicarb to get that " just right " scone mix they prefer.

Personally it didn't suit me at all mixing the different sorts of thyroid hormone replacements and I've settled on being a basic scone sort of a person.

[Hidden in reply to pennyannie]

Thank you, Pennyannie, I agree that we are all different! I also find NDT softer than synthetic thyroid drugs and wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that most of the hormones are not free but bound to protein...NDT does seem to be absorbed more slowly.

[pennyannie in reply to Hidden]

Yes, I believe that is the thinking on why NDT appears to be a " softer " option - but not necessarily on the pocket depending on dose required and source.

[Incoguto in reply to pennyannie]

Haha yes, I agree, each time I pay for my prescription of Armour, part of me dies 🤣 but it works, so have to keep going!

[Hidden in reply to Incoguto]

True! Thyroid-S seems to be the cheapest prescription-strength NDT available ATM, but it is much more expensive than it was a few years ago...I only hope it will remain available after all that has happened (Thai brands discontinued, US brands reformulated or recalled..).

[Incoguto in reply to Hidden]

Fingers crossed! It should remain, it's just that the price can change again, but hey, we need to feel well!

[radd in reply to Incoguto]

Makes you die but keeps you alive!

[Incoguto in reply to radd]

That's it, it's a nice balance to have😆

[Incoguto]

Hey PurpleCat71, I am similar.I feel very good on NDT only or little addition of Levo (6.25 mcg currently). T4 definitely is doing something, in both synthetic and ndt form, but definitely prefer it in ndt. Synthetic t3 is not working for me at all and it never resolved my issues, I had been on synthetic combo of t4+t3 for 18 months and ended up with so many issues that I had to move to Armour.

Also I feel effects of T4 quicker than the half life or 6 weeks etc. sometimes within 2-3 days. And I have been told many times that it is impossible. Well no it isn't,I know my body quite well. Also, my friend is the same, she feels after of T4 after 2 days.

Also, NDT is more gentle as it's bound to thyroglobulin, so not active straightaway like synthetics , which are bound to sodium.

[Hidden in reply to Incoguto]

Interesting what you say about the effects of T4, I can also feel the results of a decrase/increase very rapidly, much sooner than the 6-8 weeks often mentioned so, even if it takes several weeks for FT4 levels to stabiilse after a change in dosage, it is definitely doing something that can be felt within a couple of days...sometimes even hours.

[Incoguto in reply to Hidden]

I believe if your tsh is suppressed you can feel everything as you have no production of your own and there is little regulation sometimes. So I feel it too for sure, hours as well, especially when I forget to take it!

[Hidden in reply to Incoguto]

Interesting what you say about the TSH suppression and how it affects us!

[June25]

" I have tried to replace one grain of NDT (Thyroid-S) with 6.25 mcg of T3 (Unipharma T3)"

That's not an equivalent replacement. One grain thyroid-S has 9mcg T3. On top of that you have whatever T3 is being produced by the conversion of the 38mcg T4 in 1 grain NDT. I'd say you'd be nearer to an equivalent replacement for one grain NDT with 12.5mcg T3.

Just saying. You might find that NDT still works better for you but this test is not valid.

[Hidden in reply to June25]

Yes, I realise that. However, I was surprised that a decrease in T4 (-38 mcg of T4) could be felt so rapidly, even after as little as two days, as it´s often said that T4 levels take weeks to change. But I do agree with you, 1 grain of NDt is closer to 12.5 mcg of T3. What i was trying to say was that T3 is not doing the same thing for me as T4....

[June25 in reply to Hidden]

I think it's the ratio of FT3:FT4 that matters more, not either one in isolation. This ratio changes the metabolism of both hormones and is a big influence on how your body responds to your FT3 levels entering the cells.

This might also explain the rapid response time. I'm not quite clear on how you made your changes but a change to T3 dosing would result in a change to the FT3:FT4 ratio even if the T4 dosing stayed the same.

Anyway well done you if you have established that the dosing ratio of NDT alone suits you, as it can be challenging for many people to find their optimal ratio.

[real_mission]

I found that half and half works for me. T3 alone made my joints and tendons ache. NDT alone made me gain weight, but I did feel a lot better. To control the weight and feel 'normal' I split the dose.