Dental problem - my fillings keep dropping out

[dizzy864]

Hi,

As many of you will know, I was diagnosed hypo almost 30 years ago. For the past 15 years I've been on levo and lio. I've had lots of health problems for the past seven or so years mostly due to meds not being absorbed as they should . Almost eight weeks ago, I was prescribed liquid levo ( 125mcg ) Since then, I have reduced lio from 55mcg to 45mcg and am feeling a lot better. I have blood test on Tuesday morning.

For the past two years, I can not keep fillings in. They just drop out. One tooth has now been filled five times, another four - currently awaiting having it redone. In total I have four teeth that were originally filled 25 years or so ago that were fine until two years ago but now the fillings won't stay in. They've dropped out whilst eating an ice cream and whilst drinking a cup of tea! I am scared to eat anything in case a filling drops out again. It's so uncomfortable waiting a month or more to get it replaced.

My first thought was to blame my dentist, but as my nhs dentist was closed and three fillings were missing, I went private at the end of last year. I had one replaced - lasted less than a week! I then had three fillings replaced - one fell out within 6 hours, the next 3 days and the next a couple of weeks later!! I returned to the dentist and had them replaced again, a different dentist. Two fell out almost immediately! I returned again. One stayed in and one fell out the next day. The dentist blamed it on having to use white filling rather than silver as used by nhs.

My nhs dentist reopened and I had the one remaining done there back in late March. It fell out three weeks ago. It's costing me a lot of money and time and pain!!

Is this a hypothyroid problem? Now that hopefully my thyroid meds are working properly, will my fillings stay in?

[humanbean]

I think there is a connection between tooth problems and hypothyroidism. I have problems too.

In my case my fillings don't fall out - my teeth just crumble. I've assumed the problem is low levels of saliva, which I've developed in the last 10 - 15 years, and the fact that I grind my teeth very badly, and have done all my life. But I'm just guessing.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to humanbean]

Really recommend a mouth guard if you don’t have one all ready

I was extremely sceptical when dentist said I needed one

It’s brilliant, would never be without one now

[dizzy864 in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you for your reply. Eighteen months ago, my nhs dentist told me that I had been grinding my teeth. I had never done this before. I did buy a couple of different over the counter guards. As soon as I put them in I started retching and could not stop. I did look into having one made. I have to admit the cost put me off - I'd had a lot of expenses seeing private endos at the time. But the main problem is that I have two rather large boney growths on the bottom of my mouth behind my teeth. These extend from the front of my mouth to the back. This means that firstly there is very little room left in my mouth but secondly they are in the way of where a mouth guard has to sit, which was the main problem with the two guards that I bought.I can't see how, even a made to measure guard would have enough room in my really crowded mouth and I did not want to risk several hundred pounds. I've now been told that I no longer grind my teeth. I had a TMJ at the time. Thanks to some advice on this site, I managed to click my jaw back into place and luckily it's stayed in place.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to dizzy864]

Mine cost £100 several years ago

I was extremely doubtful I would be able to tolerate wearing it

Having it made to measure was not a pleasant experience…..having mould taken made me gag badly

But was pleasantly surprised it was so effective

Teeth grinding is common hypothyroid issue

[dizzy864 in reply to SlowDragon]

It costs a lot more than that now. The nhs charges the maximum amount - towards £300. I looked at a couple of places that offered guards privately. They were actually slightly cheaper than the nhs but not by very much. There was also postal charges on top to return moulds etc.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to dizzy864]

Mine was NHS ….gone up a lot in price then

[Beads in reply to SlowDragon]

Mine was private, through the normal dentist, clips on the bottom teeth, it cost me £100 at the beginning of this year. She called it a bite raiser. I know it’s working as it’s got scratches on the top surface where I grind while asleep.

As you say, getting the moulds taken is the worst part.

[Miffie in reply to dizzy864]

I had mine done privately this year as part of a course of treatment, the cost was £75. The implant, crown and a filling cost £4,000 so the guard was a bargain.

[tinkerbell22 in reply to dizzy864]

Hi dizzy864, have you had issues with teeth crumbling, which causes the fillings to come out? The bony growths may suggest an issue with calcium not absorbing right and being dumped around the body causing bony growths. I have this issue and had bony growths on my fingers, and other bony issues with joints. I also have crumbling of my teeth which I have recently learnt is because my calcium in my diet is too low. Low calcium causes the body to pull calcium from the teeth. But if you have bony growths, you may need to check your vitamin D, K and magnesium are ok, re your absorption of calcium. Just adding more calcium can then mean there's more calcium getting dumped around the body if you're not absorbing it and using it right.

Also when experiencing problems with my dental work falling apart I looked this up online (which is how I understood about the calcium connection) and in that search I found that if the site of placing the filling becomes wet at all, from saliva or from cleaning the tooth by the dentist, just moments before filling the tooth, then the filling can't stick! It needs to be totally dry for the filling to stick (I think this may just be white fillings). The piece then went on to say about how kids' fillings often fall out because they squirm about and it's hard for the dentist to keep the cavity totally dry before placing the new filling material in. I translate this to myself, definitely no longer a kid, but I can be similar at the dentist as I have huge anxiety, and also gag reactions, post nasal drip stuffy sinuses ... which all lead me to perhaps interrupt the dentist for pauses at key moments like when a filling is being placed.

Also though, dentists, NHS or private aren't perfect. I have come to realise they've made several errors with me. I know I'm an awkward patient But some of the dental issues I have haven't always been my fault.

I hope you find something that helps.

[dizzy864 in reply to tinkerbell22]

Hi,I do not have any problems with my teeth crumbling. They seem absolutely fine. The fillings have all dropped out completely in tact as they were put in. I was very vitamin D deficient about ten years ago, but have been supplimenting ever since. I take vitamin D3 + K2. I have magnesium in my bath daily. I supplimented with calcium for many years but stopped six or seven years ago after reading hypo patients should not suppliment with calcium. It was fairly early on with my hypo problems and I thought it could be contributing to the problem. I suppliment with zinc and gentle iron as well B complex and vitamin B. I am really struggling to raise my levels of these. I assume because of being hypo.

My previous calcium levels have been 2.41, 2.44 and 2.48 ( 2.2 - 2.6 ) in January, March and November last year. These are above midway so not too bad.

What is the current policy concerning calcium suppliments with levo and/or lio?

[jgelliss in reply to SlowDragon]

Spot On.

[tinkerbell22 in reply to humanbean]

I have the same problem humanbean! I recently found a link between low calcium and teeth crumbling. My calcium has always been low in range and calcium can apparently be an issue for hypothyroid people.

[humanbean in reply to tinkerbell22]

I have the opposite problem. My corrected calcium level is high in range but my teeth still crumble. It has been at least 90% of the way through the range for many of my calcium tests in the last few years. And the ones that aren't that high are in the 70s or 80s percent, so still quite high.

I do take magnesium and vitamin K2 which are supposed to help calcium get into the bones and teeth.

*Sigh*

[tinkerbell22 in reply to humanbean]

Ahh nooo, I just found this "When a person does not consume enough calcium, phosphorus, and vitamin D, they can develop weaker, less-dense bones and teeth", how are your phosphorus and vit D re calcium absorption (not re low calcium)?

A separate link here says excess calcium can cause oral problems too, including cavities

colgate.com/en-us/oral-heal...

It's so hard figuring out this stuff ourselves isn't it! If only we all had fab doctors and dentists to help lol

[humanbean in reply to tinkerbell22]

My vitamin D is pretty good, and I take a decent sized dose in supplement form but I've never had my phosphorous measured.

I just did some checking and apparently all plants and animals need phosphorous and so it can be derived from almost anything that people eat, so I suspect a deficiency must be rare.

webmd.com/vitamins-and-supp...

As for calcium itself, I don't take any calcium supplements at all.

[Horsey07 in reply to humanbean]

That’s exactly the issue I have. Large sections of tooth have started to just drop off. I’m going to have to have one crowned and an implant to replace another this year. I had no idea it was thyroid related; just thought it was an old lady thing.

[humanbean in reply to Horsey07]

I've recently had a crown fitted because a massive chunk of tooth just broke off one day.

In contrast to the person who started this thread, my problem is that my fillings are stronger than my teeth. The fillings stay put and then bits of teeth fall off or become detached from the fillings.

[Horsey07 in reply to humanbean]

That's exactly what's happening with mine! It's like a new spin on the old joke; your fillings are fine, but the teeth have got to go.

[Batty1 in reply to Horsey07]

I have this same issue but apparently my old dentist (retired now) over drilled my 2 teeth for fillings and now both teeth need crowns because she only left a tiny bit of tooth surrounding the filling and they keep cracking (can’t remove old filing whole outer tooth would crumble)….My new dentist said I have no idea why she would create such large filling area (old X-rays showed very small cavities) …. What a Criminal she knew eventually I would need crowns but I bet she thought I would be back before she retired…. How many people did she do this too? Can’t prove it but it seems like a possibility.

I now have to pay $400.00 for each crown and this is with dental insurance.

[humanbean in reply to Batty1]

Drilling teeth unnecessarily or drilling out most of the centre of a tooth for a filling, leaving very weak walls was something that happened a lot in the UK particularly during the 60s and 70s.

Although I don't remember the details it was something to do with the way dentists were paid by the NHS for the work they did at the time. I think if they did nothing then they received no money.

All my fillings ended up being massive, and yet when I was shown x-rays the decay pointed out was absolutely tiny - substantially smaller than a pin head. But the fillings were always huge.

I also suspect that a lot of the work I had done was simply for money-making purposes, and it wasn't necessary.

Although it didn't happen to me, something I remember reading about years ago was a technique used by some very dodgy dentists called an "Australian Trench". The dentist would drill out a trench along the molars and then fill the whole thing in with amalgam, so there were no longer any separate teeth. I know it caused outrage and was banned, and I haven't heard of it since.

patient.info/forums/discuss...

[dizzy864 in reply to humanbean]

Hi,I can certainly relate to this. Almost forty years ago, when I was pregnant with my first child, I went for a dental checkup. The dentist insisted on giving me a crown. At the time, I had no idea what that was and he made no attempt to explain it to me. He said it needs to be done immediately. He drilled my tooth - leaving very little of it. He then told me I needed a temporary filling over it and to come back next week. I couldn't as I was on holiday for a couple of weeks. It ruined my holiday as my mouth was so uncomfortable. When I returned and he fitted the crown, he joked about how I might as well have some free nhs gold!! I never believed that I needed a crown. I learned months later that he had been diagnosed with terminal cancer. He decided to do a large number of unnecessary procedures so he could leave more money to his wife. It was great for him ( and his wife ) but not so much for me and the other patients he abused!

[humanbean in reply to dizzy864]

That's awful! But, sadly, doesn't surprise me at all.

[bantam12]

If the fillings have been done properly there is no reason for them to fall out so quickly, particularly the composites as they are bonded to the tooth.

[dizzy864 in reply to bantam12]

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I would certainly expect that to be the case. After the fillings had fallen out when I was seeing the private dentist, she said I needed to have four route canals and then four crowns. I can't remember the exact cost but it was approaching £5000.When I went back to my nhs dentist, she was horrified at this. She said if I had four route canals done, it would cause severe damage to the teeth both sides!! She refused to do them. I was very relieved!! I can't understand how all the fillings stayed in place for well over twenty years. They then cracked with age and dropped out. That I can understand but I really don't understand how they can keep dropping out. I expected modern materials and techniques to be better not worse. That's why I wondered if there could be a connection with my hypo.

[Hidden]

Not tooth-related but you have reminded me.

When I was 23ish I had 'microdermals' fitted (a kind of piercing that sits under the skin, as opposed to going through the body part).

I was going through, what I can now see was a hypo phase, thought it was depression/low mood etc.

Anyway! During that phase, my microdermals just fell out. There was no reason for them to, they were healing well, it was like my body just rejected them one day.

Maybe it's related, maybe it's not but it's food for thought anyway!

[dizzy864 in reply to Hidden]

Hi, thankyou for your reply. It does sound similar, doesn't it?

[Miffie]

Goodness, that’s grim. Personally I have never had any problems with fillings falling out and not sure why you are having this horrid problem. I have never had a decent top enamel on my teeth and had lots of sensitivity. Back in the early 1970s my dentist suggested this was due to my having hypothyroidism. Since then a couple more have made the same comment. As with SlowDragon I sport a mouth guard to reduce damage from grinding.

I hope your dentist is able to resolve the problem soon.

[dizzy864 in reply to Miffie]

Hi, Thankyou for your reply. I've never had any problems with my teeth. I've had relatively few fillings. I think it is because, hypo wasn't a problem for me until I turned forty. I think teeth problems related to hypo depend on the time the hypo becomes a problem. Looking back, I think I just took a long time for it to become a problem with me. There were early signs when I was a child if one was looking for it!

[Miffie in reply to dizzy864]

I was diagnosed as a child, my thyroid was destroyed by radiation therapy in the 1950s. Possibly that’s why dentists link my poor enamel and sensitivity to being hypo!

[tinkerbell22 in reply to dizzy864]

I definitely think there's a connection between hypo and dental issues, and I bet it's about metabolism. My mum is the same and she has Hashimoto's as well. My dentists usually blame me for the state of my teeth lol lol. Charming isn't it

[Dottie44]

I have read that there is a connection with poor tooth quality and Hashimoto's. I could have bought a small island with the amount of money I have put into my mouth. Once diagnosed with Hashi's and reading up about being Gluten Free, knock wood, I have had very few problems with my teeth now that I am strictly GF/DF. It might be worth exploring.

[dizzy864 in reply to Dottie44]

I'm not sure I have a problem with my teeth. I do have a problem with my gums - I get a lot of nasty ulcers. This I was told was due to poor dental hygiene. I would really disagree! I've always gone to a dentist regularly - even when I was a child. I've also always cleaned my teeth regularly. I've used an electric tooth brush for years. I really don't know what else I could have done. It was pointed out to me that it was almost a year since I'd visited a hygienest - none were open due to covid!!! I am never goint to one again. My last visit was brutal. I was left with a row of ulcers down both sides of my tongue!! I googled it - they take up to two weeks to go. Except that is if you're me!! I could not eat or drink anything without a lot of pain for just over three weeks. I'm never doing that again.

[humanbean in reply to dizzy864]

This is all based on my own experience of having many, many mouth ulcers...

Problems that seemed to have caused at least some of my mouth ulcers...

1) Low B12 - ulcers can temporarily get worse as the level of B12 rises from supplements but then they do improve to end up being less bad than at the start. I supplement with methylcobalamin.

2) Low folate - this is relevant because it is needed in adequate quantities for the body to use B12. I supplement with methylfolate.

3) Low iron and/or low ferritin (iron stores) can be a cause of mouth ulcers. This is a huge subject, but if you post the results of an iron panel in a new thread there are people who can interpret your results for you. Just being in range is not enough. You need optimal.

4) The amount of pain from ulcers can be increased by bacteria in the mouth, so it is a very worthwhile exercise to try and reduce it. My oral hygiene was good but my ulcers were still excruciating. I started using generous amounts of salt water to gargle and rinse with, and I keep swishing the salt water around for sometime, and although it has made only a small difference to the number of ulcers I get the salt water has reduced the level of pain enormously, and reduced the lifespan of them quite dramatically. That was when I realised that cleaning teeth and gums doesn't actually clean every single surface in the mouth, and I must have had bacteria where I wasn't brushing. I've never tolerated commercial mouthwashes well - they all sting terribly and eventually they start to make my lips fall apart. But the salt water hasn't (so far) caused any problems in that respect.

For my salt water mouthwash I don't make it very strong. I use a very heaped teaspoon of salt in about 100ml boiling water, give it a good stir to dissolve the salt, then add 300ml cold water. Then I use it after brushing my teeth.

[dizzy864]

Hi, I did wonder if these have an affect. My B12 has been falling back a bit lately - just not absorbing it as I used to. I was diagnosed deficient many years ago and have supplimented ever since. It was very close to top of range for years. It was last tested in November 2020.463 ( 197.0 - 771.0 ) Although lower, I doubt its a problem.

My Folate could be higher but again it's above the middle - 11.8 ( 2.0 - 18.7 )

My ferritin is always disappointing - 78.1 ( 20.0 - 260.0 ) I struggle with iron tablets as I react so badly to them. I have increased from a spray to 20mcg a day and now taking 25mcg. It's the best I can do. My vitamin D was 118 ( <25 ) I'm not sure how high this should actually be?

[Wegeners88]

Hi

I have recently developed secondary hyperparathyroidism with low phosphate and low calcium due to an adverse effect of ferinject (iron infusion) I had on 10th december. I have been having a small amount of tooth sensitvity in particular teeth.

However, today I noticed a crack in an old filling and after touching it gently with my finger the whole filling fell apart. I have never had an issue with that filling since it was installed in 2015 and I dont have any pain in that tooth. Whats left behind is another filling at the bottom.

I am on medications including blood thinners and steroids for another set of autoimmune conditions.

I am 100% sure that the hyperparathyroidism has caused this and its inly 3 weeks into me having secondary hyperar. Im taking phosphate sandoz and calcichew daily and took lots of vit d last week.

If anyone else is having this problem please let me know