Hi,
Can anyone help please, been to the doctors today suffering from extreme fatigue, weight gain, stiff joints, eczema, bloating, brain fog my tongue seems swollen, see picture. Doctor says it’s all due to my weight and until I lose about four stone he will do nothing else. Has anyone had similar experience. Thanks
Did your GP test your thyroid?
I think a scalloped tongue can also be a long term symptom following Covid, and a sign of B12 deficiency.
Welcome to the forum.
I'd suggest you get a FULL set of blood tests done, so you know what these show. Have an early morning, fasting appointment and test - TSH, free T4, free T3, thyroid antibodies, ferritin, folate, vit D and B12.
If your GP can't / won't test all these, can you test them privately? You will see info (and discounts) on the main Thyroid UK website - and LOTS of posts here about private test results.
Post the results, and the related lab ranges, which vary from lab to lab, and the lovely people here will help you to understand them
Thanks fuchsia-pink, I have had some recent test, the doctors only tested for tag which was Serum TSH level 1.05 mu/L [0.35 - 4.94] I had these other test as well B12/folate level Serum folate level 2.8 ug/L [3.0 - 20.0]
Below low reference limit
Serum vitamin B12 level 270 ng/L [180.0 - 640.0]
Serum ferritin level
Serum ferritin level 222 ug/L [15.0 - 300.0]
Consider iron studies in anaemic patients with
normal/high Ferritin and an inflammatory state.
Last year I had a test by medichecks carried out for a nutritionist that I was using from my local gym. Doctor totally dismissed the test. Feeling so depressed with all this just want to get back to something normal.
B12 is extremely low and folate is deficient
GP should be testing for pernicious anaemia…did they?
Have you been prescribed folic acid supplements and B12 injections???
Have you had vitamin D tested?
Likely low too
TSH is too high, but not high enough to get diagnosed…but Ft4 and Ft3 are EXTREMELY Low
You don’t have high thyroid antibodies …but 20% of autoimmune thyroid disease patients never have high thyroid antibodies
Request ultrasound scan of thyroid by GP
Or test privately £150
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Paul Robson on atrophied thyroid - especially if no TPO antibodies
paulrobinsonthyroid.com/cou...
Email Thyroid UK for list of recommend thyroid specialist endocrinologists...NHS and Private
tukadmin@thyroiduk.org
Please request your GP to check that you do not have Pernicious Anaemia. Once we have one autoimmune disease we can develop others.
P.A. is another condition that can lead to serious problems if the patent isn't given frequent B12 injections.
It's horrible when you know your not feeling right and nobody listens.
Looking at your results your ferreting is high. I would look at reading about high ferretin and what you think may be causing it in your body.
Many factors such as alcohol can contribute to high ferretin. I'm not suggesting you drink its just something that can contribute.
I was avoid anything with extra iron in until you can speak to another doctor.
B vitamins are your metabolism so worth looking into getting more b vitamins.
Definitely agree that you need to have thyroid tests done, as fuchsia-pink suggests. Scalloped tongue can be a symptom of being hypothyroid. Your GP does not seem pro-active, so if you can afford to maybe test privately. Many members test privately on this forum. Best wishes to you Travet.
Thanks Buddy195
Low B12 symptoms b12deficiency.info/signs-an...
Others here may only suggest running thyroid panel and those you’ve already done. But I’d suggest a full blood count, blood glucose, Vit D, calcium and cholesterol, immunology panel including anti-nuclear antibodies, rheumatoid factor and immunoglobulins, thyroid antibodies and full thyroid panel, Coeliac antibodies, inflammatory markers CRP and ESR.
As women we are advised by the Westminster government’s health minister, Nadine Dorries to not let any GP fob us off if we’re sick. Easier said than done of course and we know we shouldn’t have to.
You feel you’ve been fobbed off as many of us are and you’re probably right. So you need to go back to them with this list and ask them to do the job they are paid handsomely to do.
Good luck!
Ps scalloped tongue and your symptoms could be caused by many things but probably hypothyroidism is the most likely. healthline.com/health/scall...
Thanks, very informative, I did have these :-Serum vitamin D level
Serum vitamin D level 56.6 nmol/L [71.0 - 200.0]
Below low reference limit
30-70 nmol/l Insufficiency
B12/folate level
Serum folate level 2.8 ug/L [3.0 - 20.0]
Below low reference limit
Serum vitamin B12 level 270 ng/L [180.0 - 640.0]
Serum ferritin level
Serum ferritin level 222 ug/L [15.0 - 300.0]
Consider iron studies in anaemic patients with
normal/high Ferritin and an inflammatory state.
Serum TSH level
Serum TSH level 1.05 mu/L [0.35 - 4.94]
Bone profile
Serum total protein level 73 g/L [60.0 - 80.0]
Serum albumin level 38 g/L [35.0 - 50.0]
Serum alkaline phosphatase level 75 u/L [20.0 - 150.0]
Serum calcium level 2.26 mmol/L
Calcium adjusted level 2.30 mmol/L [2.2 - 2.6]
Serum inorganic phosphate level 0.82 mmol/L [0.8 - 1.5]
Serum globulin level 35 g/L [20.0 - 35.0]
Serum C reactive protein level
Serum C reactive protein level 15 mg/L [0.0 - 5.0]
Above high reference limit
Liver function tests
Serum total bilirubin level 9 umol/L [2.0 - 21.0]
Serum alanine aminotransferase level 52 u/L [5.0 - 40.0]
Above high reference limit
Serum urate level
Serum urate level 433 umol/L [200.0 - 430.0]
Above high reference limit
When preventing gout with urate-lowering therapies
, treat to a serum urate target <300umol/L. Gout
usually occurs with urate levels >360umol/L;
levels may fall during an acute attack.
Urea and electrolytes
Serum sodium level 142 mmol/L [133.0 - 146.0]
Serum potassium level 4.3 mmol/L [3.5 - 5.3]
Serum chloride level 106 mmol/L [95.0 - 108.0]
Serum urea level 4.2 mmol/L [2.5 - 7.8]
Serum creatinine level 92 umol/L [64.0 - 111.0]
eGFR using creatinine (CKD-EPI) per 1.73 square metres 79 mL/Min [60.0 - 120.0]
Interpret eGFR values between 60 and 90
ml/min/1.73m2 with caution.
LIPID PROFILE NON FASTING
Serum cholesterol level 6.00 mmol/L [2.0 - 5.0]
Above high reference limit
Serum triglyceride levels 3.80 mmol/L [0.5 - 2.5]
Above high reference limit
Serum non high density lipoprotein cholesterol level 5.2 mmol/l
A non HDL cholesterol of 2.5 mmol/L is equivalent
to an LDL cholesterol of 1.8 mmol/L. Aim for at
least a 40% reduction in pre-treatment values.
Serum cholesterol/HDL ratio 7.5 [< 5.0]
Above high reference limit
Serum HDL cholesterol level 0.80 mmol/L
Calculated LDL cholesterol level 3.47 mmol/L [< 2.5]
Above high reference limit
Full blood count
Haemoglobin concentration 158 g/L [130.0 - 170.0]
Total white blood count 7.0 10*9/L [4.0 - 10.0]
Platelet count - observation 296 10*9/L [150.0 - 410.0]
Red blood cell count 5.5 10*12/L [4.5 - 5.5]
Haematocrit 0.48 L/L [0.4 - 0.5]
Mean cell volume 88 fl [83.0 - 101.0]
Mean cell haemoglobin level 28.9 pg [27.0 - 32.0]
Mean cell haemoglobin concentration 329 g/L [315.0 - 345.0]
Red blood cell distribution width 12.3 %CV [11.6 - 14.0]
Neutrophil count 2.4 10*9/L [2.0 - 7.0]
Lymphocyte count 3.3 10*9/L [1.0 - 3.0]
Above high reference limit
Monocyte count - observation 1.0 10*9/L [0.2 - 1.0]
Eosinophil count - observation 0.2 10*9/L [0.02 - 0.5]
Basophil count 0.1 10*9/L [0.0 - 0.1]
Nucleated red blood cell count 0.0 10*9/L [0.0 - 0.09]
I will ask for the others you mention. Many Thanks
From a fatigued glance - your elevated CRP and RBCs are ones I have as well relating to my systemic autoimmune diseases. The raised CRP is concerning. However, while these are a another strong clue to something being wrong, they are non specific.
Still they and Ferritin are all worthy of marching back into your GP and firmly asking for a more comprehensive screening for to find out where exactly the inflammation in your body is.
This should include a full autoimmune screening panel, 24 hour BP monitoring, urine testing and quite possibly renal and bladder, prostrate all checking by ultrasound and definitely a full cardiology work up.
Meanwhile if you aren’t already, you could try the Mosley or other low carb diet, try cutting out gluten, go for wholesome, non refined foods and take some over the counter D3 and Jarrow’s methyl B12 which you can order online.
There that’s my non medically trained, expert patient’s take on these blood results for what it’s worth. Best of luck!
Travet
Serum vitamin D level 56.6 nmol/L
This is low. The Vit D Society and Grassroots Health recommend a level of 100-150nmol/L.
If you wish to improve your level then to reach the recommended level from your current level, you could supplement with 4,000iu D3 daily.
Retest after 3 months.
Once you've reached the recommended level then you'll need a maintenance dose to keep it there, which may be 2000iu daily, maybe more or less, maybe less in summer than winter, it's trial and error so it's recommended to retest once or twice a year to keep within the recommended range. You can do this with a private fingerprick blood spot test with an NHS lab which offers this test to the general public:
Doctors don't know, because they're not taught much about nutrients, but there are important cofactors needed when taking D3.
D3 aids absorption of calcium from food and Vit K2-MK7 directs the calcium to bones and teeth where it is needed and away from arteries and soft tissues where it can be deposited and cause problems such as hardening of the arteries, kidney stones, etc.
D3 and K2 are fat soluble so should be taken with the fattiest meal of the day, D3 four hours away from thyroid meds if taking D3 as tablets/capsules/softgels, no necessity if using an oral spray.
For D3 I like Doctor's Best D3 softgels, they are an oil based very small softgel which contains just two ingredients - D3 and extra virgin olive oil, a good quality, nice clean supplement which is budget friendly. Some people like BetterYou oral spray but this contains a lot of excipients and works out more expensive.
For Vit K2-MK7 I like Vitabay or Vegavero brands which contain the correct form of K2-MK7 - the "All Trans" form rather than the "Cis" form. The All Trans form is the bioactive form, a bit like methylfolate is the bioactive form of folic acid.
Magnesium helps D3 to work. We need Magnesium so that the body utilises D3, it's required to convert Vit D into it's active form. So it's important we ensure we take magnesium when supplementing with D3.
Magnesium comes in different forms, check to see which would suit you best and as it's calming it's best taken in the evening, four hours away from thyroid meds if taking magnesium as tablets/capsules, no necessity if using topical forms of magnesium.
naturalnews.com/046401_magn...
drjockers.com/best-magnesiu...
Don't start all supplements at once. Start with one, give it a week or two and if no adverse reaction then add the next one. Again, wait a week or two and if no adverse reaction add the next one. Continue like this. If you do have any adverse reaction then you will know what caused it.
**
Serum vitamin B12 level 270 ng/L [180.0 - 640.0] - ng/L is the same as pg/ml
This is low. According to an extract from the book, "Could it be B12?" by Sally M. Pacholok:
"We believe that the 'normal' serum B12 threshold needs to be raised from 200 pg/ml to at least 450 pg/ml because deficiencies begin to appear in the cerebrospinal fluid below 550".
"For brain and nervous system health and prevention of disease in older adults, serum B12 levels should be maintained near or above 1000 pg/ml."
Some people with a level in the 300s have been found to need B12 injections.
Do you have any signs of B12 deficiency – check here:
b12deficiency.info/signs-an...
b12d.org/submit/document?id=46
If you do then list them to discuss with your GP and ask for testing for B12 deficiency and Pernicious Anaemia. Do not take any B12 supplements or folic acid/folate/B Complex supplements before further testing of B12 as this will mask signs of B12 deficiency and skew results.
**
Serum folate level 2.8 ug/L [3.0 - 20.0]
This is Folate deficiency and you need to speak to your GP and remind him of
cks.nice.org.uk/anaemia-b12...
Folate level
◦Serum folate of less than 7 nanomol/L (3 micrograms/L) is used as a guide to indicate folate deficiency.
Ideally you will be prescribed 5mg folic acid and monitored. Do not start this until further testing for B12 deficiency has been done and B12 injections or supplements started.
**
Serum TSH level 1.05 mu/L [0.35 - 4.94]
If this was the only thyroid test done then it's not sufficient to rule out Central Hypothyroidism which is where the problem lies with the pituitary or the hypothalamus rather than the thyroid. Central Hypothyroidism can have a normal, low or minimally elevated TSH with a very low or below range FT4, so it's essential to test FT4 as well as TSH to cover this possibility.
Serum C reactive protein level 15 mg/L [0.0 - 5.0]
This is obviously raised and CRP is an inflammation marker, non specific but nevertheless identifies there is inflammation or infection present.
Thanks, you guys are amazing with the knowledge you have.
Does the silly man (your doctor) not understand that weight-gain is a symptom of low thyroid? So, if you are hypo, you won't be able to lose that weight without treatment. So, is he prepared to just sit back and watch you slowly decline without lifting a finger to help? That sounds like negligence, to me! We cannot always balme all our problems on our weight!
I'd start taking a decent dose of methyl folate fast - you'll be feeling awful with that level of folate. I'd take a multi b vitamin too to bring up the b12. It doesn't surprise me your doc doesn't think it's thyroid - yet - but you numbers are not great. Beg for a referral to an endocrinologist? Or look one up on the thyroid U.K. website and pay privately?
Are you on any indigestion remedies as in Proton pump inhibitors? They can cause B12 deficiency.
A thought. Your GP has only tested your TSH and is assuming, because it is low in range that your thyroid function is ok. However, if you look at your private testing from last year, with a higher TSH your FT3 and FT4 were low in the range.
A lower TSH could indicate that your FTs are now higher, but without testing them you won't know that. They could still be low and that could potentially show that your pituitary is not functioning properly.
In my opinion (just my own opinion) when someone first presents with thyroid symptoms, the only use for the TSH test is to establish the relationship between your FT3 and FT4 levels. If your FTs are low and your TSH is high, then you probably have primary hypothyroidism and your TSH reading is probably a reasonable indication of your thyroid levels. (It is for me and I'm at my best when my TSH is around 0.5)
However, if your FTs are low AND your TSH is low, then you could have secondary hypothyroidism, in which case the TSH reading is not useful.
I had a scalloped tongue for years. I have PA and now self-inject as well as gp jabs. The scalloped tongue continued but much better now that I self-treat with levothyroxine. I still get a sore mouth inside though. I didn't gain weight at all, only in my mid-40's . Went up to 11stone 7lbs at my heaviest until I got ill and was in hospital. I was always 8 stone till after 3rd child and I think probs began then at 34 and I suspect thyroid problems.
Work on improving low vitamin levels then retest thyroid levels
cheapest option for just TSH, FT4 and FT3
£29 (via NHS private service ) and 10% off down to £26.10 if go on thyroid uk for code
thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...
Retest vitamin D twice year
Aiming at improving to at least around 80nmol and around 100nmol maybe better
NHS easy postal kit vitamin D test £29 via
Have you had head trauma, whiplash or concussion
Can cause central hypothyroidism
Thanks, I have been in a number of road traffic accidents, the last was in 2016 when a coach went into the back of my stationery car.
First step is to get vitamin levels optimal….
Then retest thyroid levels in 3-4 months
Always test as early as possible in morning before eating or drinking anything other than water
Email Thyroid UK for list of recommend thyroid specialist endocrinologists...NHS and Private
tukadmin@thyroiduk.org
Ask for referral to thyroid specialist endocrinologist for evaluation for central hypothyroidism
Central hypothyroidism
academic.oup.com/jcem/artic...
bestpractice.bmj.com/topics...
Hello Travet,
Thank you for posting a picture of your tongue. Swap! I have had a scallop tongue done both sides for a few years now and my tongue is swollen rather large. I also get a stingy burning sensation on it at times and suffer a dry mouth. I am Hypothyroid. Covid was on the go when I first got these symptoms and I have been trying to find out what is behind my tongue being like this. I take vitamin B complex, but suspect I may be still low in B12. I am also overweight due to my thyroid. Your doctor isn't being relistic. It isn't easy losing weight while having thyroid trouble. Just look at Shaun Ryder. He is battling it and hair loss. My hair has become very thin. I don't believe Levothyroxine really works by itself. But my Doctors just don't bother and I can't afford private doctors.
I don't find any doctor helpful when it comes to weight. They are quick to point out the obvious we need to lose weight, but then won't help at all. I have all your symptoms plus more. Could you try seeing a different doctor at your practice, to ask for blood tests to be done? I wish you look in finding an answer and treatment for it.
The only time I've seen a tongue the same as yours was before my friend was diagnosed as having hypothyroidism. It healed a short time after she started treatment.
I have had similar issue with my tongue for about a week now. I had it 5 years ago and was given folic acid from doctor. I’m not sure what to do this time. I have hypothyroidism and have been working hard to raise vitamin levels recently so I can’t understand why it’s back. I now have high b12 levels but I suspect I don’t absorb it
suspected adrenal problems what now?
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