Paleo and cereals

[helvella]

An interesting story in its own right. But all the more so in that it is specific about Neanderthals consuming mainly cereals. Which, I suggest, possibly undermines some of the claims of the paleo diets! The ones which suggest that cereals are relatively recent introductions.

(This doesn't mean that there might not be benefits to our current day interpretation of the paleo diet. Nor that Neanderthals might not have wanted to eat less cereal. And I do recognise that our genetic background only has a relatively small contribution from the Neanderthals. I leave all as open questions.)

Remains of nine Neanderthals found in cave south of Rome

Italian archaeologists have unearthed the bones of nine Neanderthals who were allegedly hunted and mauled by hyenas in their den about 100km south-east of Rome.

Experts believe the individuals lived in different time periods. Some bones could be as old as 50,000 to 68,000 years, whereas the most ancient remains are believed to be 100,000 years old.

A preliminary analysis of dental tartar has revealed that their diet was varied. They primarily consumed cereals, which contributed to the growth of their brains.

theguardian.com/science/202...

[LindaC]

Thank you helvella - interesting!

[janeroar]

Thanks for posting Helvella. As you say Not at all expected!

[TSH110]

The reason they were portrayed as squat and very ape like was because the first excavated skeleton belong to an individual with chronic and extremely crippling arthritis. They stood upright like we do and actually had a bigger brain capacity than modern humans. There was even intermingling of the two hominids. According to my 23&me I have the highest percentage of Neanderthal of my dna relatives and a lot more than most people on it. It still not huge c 2% I think. Very interesting re the dietary analysis. They were around for a lot longer than we have been. One theory for their demise was that the women had to have a wider hip girdle to give birth to babies with bigger brains which affected their mobility enough to lead to their ultimate extinction. If so, It took a very long time to have such a devastating effect. They live on in me and I didn’t get their hips 😁

[helvella in reply to TSH110]

My background:

You have more Neanderthal DNA than 85% of other customers.

You inherited a small amount of DNA from your Neanderthal ancestors. Out of the 2,872 variants we tested, we found 302 variants in your DNA that trace back to the Neanderthals.

All together, your Neanderthal ancestry accounts for less than ~2 percent of your DNA.

[TSH110 in reply to helvella]

We are Neanderthal twins then 🤣🤣🤣 mine says the same. They gave me dandruff and a poor sense of direction but tip top muscles for sprinting - akin to an Olympiad! Oddly my dandruff ceased once I started thyroid hormone replacement therapy so I can’t blame the Neanderthal in me for that unless they are also the root of the thyroid disorder itself. As for running I did once win the Denham half marathon (only the women’s race) got a jolly nice inscribed bell as a prize. It was darn hard going very hilly. Hardly the olympics tho!

[NWA6 in reply to helvella]

I love how they update the data. I always check in every couple of months. I have more Neanderthal DNA than 93% of other customers 😂

[helvella in reply to NWA6]

Perhaps they just got lots of new customers with very little Neanderthal inheritance!

[NWA6 in reply to helvella]

Maybe but mines from about 5/6yrs ago.

[Ukie]

That's really interesting, thanks Helvella. Normally these things say that eating, and particularly cooking, meat is what led to large brains. Of course the large brains were already there by the time they evolved into Neanderthals, so maybe meat was in short supply at the time.

[TSH110 in reply to Ukie]

May be cooking the grains was enough! All the meat stuff sounds a tad macho/Desmond Morris don’t you think? Modern hunter gathers eat a majority plant diet. Only Eskimos living traditionally eat only animal foods and they eat it raw which gives them enough essential vitamins etc - if cooked it would not be a diet compatible with life. Many millions of vegetarians manage to power a large brain with no recourse to meat whatsoever. It simply does not add up to say “cooked meat = large brains” as far as I can determine. The challenge of living in a colder climate might have something to do with it with making fire and cooking things being one development amongst many - making complex clothing for warmth another (little mentioned) brain challenge. But who knows? Chicken or egg conundrum also springs to mind.

[Hidden]

The cereals the Neanderthals ate were completely were different to those we eat today. In fact the cereals we eat today are absolutely different to those we ate back in the 1950's. Such is progress.

[StitchFairy in reply to Hidden]

Different doesn't have to mean worse.

[helvella in reply to Hidden]

That is assuming we are not eating einkorn, spelt and emmer.

(There is a large pack in my kitchen...)

Also, that distinction is all too often not made when people are into promoting paleo diets.

[tattybogle in reply to helvella]

Which came first ... knowing you are a neanderthal... or keeping einkorn in your kitchen ?

[helvella in reply to tattybogle]

To answer - knowing I have relatively high Neanderthal genetic inheritance. But knowledge of my personal percentage was not consciously a reason to get these old wheats.

I also have several other less distinguished grain products! Some of which are pre-1950s varieties. 🍞🍞🍞🍞

[tattybogle in reply to helvella]

UG

[Cooper27]

There was an interesting TED talk on ancient diets a while ago, that summarised research with similar conclusions.

I don't follow a paleo diet (I did do AIP to ease hashimotos symptoms), but I do use a lot of paleo recipes because they're automatically GF/DF. I don't think many who follow it truly presume that their diet reflects a paleolithic one, it's just a gimmicky term to say they're avoiding modern grains and ultra-refined/processed foods, which are hard on our digestive systems. At its heart, it's really just a WFPB diet that includes meat. Paleo is just quicker to say 🙂

[Comorbidity]

Yes, an interesting link, thank you for drawing attention to it. I wish there had been more of an explanation of the intriguing statement:

"They primarily consumed cereals, which contributed to the growth of their brains"

...Especially considering the standard assumption that grains only become staple foods after the development of agriculture (and I presume there is no suggestion that agriculture was practised by neanderthal people - though I make no claim to be well-informed about any of this).

Neanderthals had much stronger jaws than us, so maybe they could effectively eat raw grains and benefit from them without the need to cook them to make them more digestible?

It leaves open two big questions, doesn't it -

1) what kinds of grains and how were they being gathered and processed;

and

2) what is the special contribution of cereal food to brain development?

What about the modern theories that what the brain most needs is high quality fats, and the correct balance of the Omega oils...

The piece is thought-provoking, but tantalising in its lack of information! So many questions raised by this.... but that's usually the case when diet is in question, isn't it.

[helvella in reply to Comorbidity]

Have our brains developed enough to understand it all?

[Comorbidity in reply to helvella]

Ha ha! Mine has probably degenerated too much to grapple with it!

Still trying to find out where this brief and unsubstantiated claim about cereal diet and brain evolution really comes from.

The evidence to date (as far as I am aware, tho' don't follow subject closely), at least regarding Neolithic period agriculture and onwards, is that the adoption of cereals as staple foods led to shorter height, reduced life span, and the advent of many nutritional deficiencies and degenerative diseases, poorer dental health, etc etc.

Of course, what those pre-agricultural Neanderthals were eating may well have been of a different sort and in a different balance from Stone Age (neolithic) and later agricultural diets.

But this article gives us too little information. I am tempted to wonder if that line could be an accidental error in the report...?

Do you know more about theories on neanderthal foods and evolution, or has anyone here seen any more detailed studies which give more information relating to this?

[helvella in reply to Comorbidity]

Afraid I know no more than appears here - and in the linked story.

I'd be happy to see more information - if you or anyone else can find any.

[Comorbidity in reply to helvella]

Well, it seems some Neanderthals are now thought to have similar diet to "early- modern” human hunter-gatherers & foragers, using whatever local resources available.

I’ve seen mention of evidence (not all from the same fossils/same deposits) suggesting consumption of berries, nuts, vegetable foods (tubers), mushroooms, moss, bark, shellfish, small mammals, large mammals – depending on local environment.

Some items may have been consumed for medicinal reasons rather than as food.

Apparently basically omnivorous (or capable of being so), but diet varied considerably according to habitat (e.g. steppe, forest, coast), and for some populations that was mainly meat.

I have to say, I have come across hardly any mentions of cereals in the articles I have seen on this subject during my searches this afternoon.

As regards “starchy” foods providing glucose for brain – starchy roots and nuts are mentioned (& latest microbiological evidence suggests they may possibly have been cooking the starchy foods too).

Natural History Museum’s concise summary of their diet is:

“Diet: meat, plants and fungi, shellfish when available”.

My reference sources for these observations include Natural History Museum, sciencetimes.com, ancient-origins.net, National Geographic.

I have now spent far too much time on this! But it was interesting.

[helvella in reply to Comorbidity]

Much appreciate your informative reply.

[Mostew]

Very interesting . Thank you

[Bluespots]

It occurred to me, reading all this interesting stuff; Could there be a link with Neanderthal genes and diseases of the Thyroid. Some Neanderthal genes have shown to provide some protection from some Covid symptoms. Fascinating......what we are made from.