T4, Metavive - Atrial Fibrillation, did I mess up?

[June25]

Hi All,

I've been in the process of switching from Thiroyd (NDT now discontinued) to Metavive and ultimately to mostly T4 with maybe a little T3. During the period on Metavive II only I had my first ever atrial fibrillation attack without warning. It felt like an irregular heartbeat + palpitations, plus thumping of heart and heart rate higher than normal. As it happened, I was due for a test the very next day and that test came back with

Ft4 =14.3 (12 - 22)

Ft3 - 4.96 (3.1 - 6.8)

TSH near 0

So those numbers were not excessive and I have no explanation for the Afib. I cut the Metavive down and it didn't happen again - till last week.

By last week I was on 50mcg T4 with 1 metavive II and 1 metavive 1. My pulse was normal. Then overnight my pulse jumped from 68 to 73 and I had another Afib attack which lasted more or less 2 days. My fitbit could not record my sleep because it could not get a regular pulse reading. I stopped all the meds and I feel back to normal now, normal pulse and everything else. But this was really scary. For a few horrible seconds I thought I might die.

So now I desperately don't want to get another attack but I am not sure what caused it. The Metavive is the only common denominator so I have quit that. I can see that the amount of thyroid hormone in any glandular is not exactly known so that does not help with precise dosing. I am starting dosing again after a week with 25mcg T4 which I know will not be enough but I feel ultra cautious right now. At least I can measure the T4 and increase slowly after each test. I still have a thyroid gland and I don't have hashis so I might get a bit hypo in the process but rather that than another Afib episode.

I have never had Afib in my life apart from these 2 times. Does anybody understand what might have caused it, or have you had a similar experience?

Thanks

June

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

June25

Have you seen your GP.

Have you had an ECG?

Have you actually had Atrial Fibrillation diagnosed?

[June25 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Hi Seaside Susie,

No I haven't seen my doc and I don't want to. I can't face the questions about the thyroid meds as they are not prescribed. The doc doesn't know I have a thyroid problem. So I didn't get diagnosed with Afib and I haven't had an ECG. Maybe it's not Afib at all. I suppose that if it keeps happening then I'll have to bite the bullet and get medical help.

June

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to June25]

June25

Maybe it's not Afib at all.

This is what I am getting at. You can't assume it's AF. My brother has AF (no symptoms, diagnosed during annual MOT at his GP surgery as it showed up on ECG). He is on a Betablocker and Warfarin.

Presumably you mean you are having episodes of high heart rate?

Then overnight my pulse jumped from 68 to 73

Normal resting heart rate is between 60-100 beats per minute.

Tachycardia is the medical term for heart rate over 100, and there are different types of tachycardia - Ventricular, Superventricular, Atrial, Paroxysmal, etc.

When heart rate goes over 120 bpm it's advised to call an ambulance, or at least contact your surgery who will most likely do an ECG.

So you need to think what has caused these episodes, exactly what did they coincide with and exactly how high does your heart rate go.

Have you started a new batch of Metavive? As there is no declared hormone content in them, each batch could be different. Or maybe you've just started the new version with nucleotides?

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to SeasideSusie]

I too have had ECGs showing definite atrial fibrillation.

I feel pretty much nothing.

The concerning factor isn't the high bpm, it is that it jumps about. From 85 to 120 just like that, then down to 90 - or something around there. (Just numbers to illustrate.) I might just about be able to notice something, if I really think about it, but I can be absolutely comfortable and not aware of any issues throughout the range.

My point? No thumping. No palpitations. If you are getting them, it might well not be "simple" afib. The only way of progressing is to have a full ECG.

[June25 in reply to helvella]

Helvella, yes you and Susie are absolutely right. I'm not up on heart issues having never had any before. I need to get an ECG.

Thanks so much,

June

[June25 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Susie, this is very helpful thanks. You are right. I shouldn't assume it is Afib. My heart rate wasn't that high, near 100 I think, but it was also irregular.

Both times when I got this it was the new Metavive with the nucleotides and I am suspicious about it. When I was on thiroyd and I went over optimal I got an increased heart rate but never an irregular pulse.

You are making me think I maybe need to see the doc and get an ecg,

June

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to June25]

There have been some posts about the new Metavive, it hasn't suited everyone. It might be worth doing a forum search.

[June25 in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanks Susie, I'll do that.

I'm hoping it's the Metavive rather than that my previously healthy heart has just developed a problem.

June

[Alanna012]

I'm currently taking the new reformulated metavive and am also having palpitations what i can only describe as a 'full' feeling in my chest.

At times I feel full hypothyroid freezing cold slow heartbeat, no strength in pulse etc Other times wired up hot etc 🤷🏿‍♀️

Thought it would settle down but no. Tried to contact manufacturer with no success and no reply.

I'm stuck as they do allow me to sleep a bit and function to a degree and I can't afford to replace them so have to stick it out until bottle is empty!

Maybe M does not agree with you and you need something else.

Worth mentioning that you can open the capsule and split it into more manageable doses

[June25 in reply to Alanna012]

Hi Alanna, that's interesting. I could understand it if I just had an increased pulse which would mean I was going hyper, but the irregular pulse is something else and much more scary because I don't know what it means. It sounds to me like you are having heart irregularities too, just not quite the same as mine. However I also sometimes get a full feeling in my chest or a tightness.

I am sorry for you that you need to continue with Metavive. I won't go near them again. I didn't even contact the manufacturer because I don't see them admitting something as potentially serious as this. I can't be sure it was the Metavive but there's nothing else it could be except a coincidence and I am developing a heart problem in my old age. I guess I'll know if I get another attack after stopping the Metavive.

June

[Alanna012 in reply to June25]

Yes unfortunately taking levo means I can kiss goodbye to ever sleeping more than a couple hours a night and suffer gritty dry eyes, mouth, chronic fatigue, etc.

I sincerely hope it is just the Metavive and don't think it is a coincidence that I also have a tight feeling in my chest also. Although I will say that from trying several different things now I've found they all affect the heart and pulse in some way, even levo but not to this degree!

Best I felt in that sense was on Naturthroid.