I have just had a bout of AF. The doctor says it's because mt T4 is too high. It is high, several points above the range, but I feel well, my T3 is normal and my normal resting heart rate is 60/65/. I have tried reducing my T4 but I become unwell very quickly. Thoughts please.
high T4 and Atrial fibrillation: I have just had... - Thyroid UK
high T4 and Atrial fibrillation
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fiftyone
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Can you post your results with the ranges so we can see. Plus the dose and type of medication you are on. This will give us all a better idea. When you say your dose was lowered by how much?
It is important to keep your thyroid hormones within the ranges. However some people do need their ft4 to be slightly over range whilst keeping their ft3 in range. Being consistantly well over the range has indeed been linked to developing a heart condition like Atrial Fibulation. So your GP is right to be concerned.
Have you checked that your B12, vit D, folate & iron are all optimised. These are important for conversion & uptake of thyroid hormones and are frequently low in hypothyroidism.
Have you had AF officially diagnosed ?
Could it be low B12 ? I awoke in the night with palpitations and realised I was due my B12 injection so popped a B12 lozenge under my tongue ! Within an hour everything had calmed down and I was able to go back to sleep. It could well be a coincidence. My heart rate has been high of late - possibly due to the stress of moving countries and I may be using up my weekly jabs more than usual 😥
Click onto Signs and Symptoms of B12 Deficiency in the above link and scroll down through to read the Circulatory issues.
Also your T3 levels could be low in range - the heart needs good levels ...
When you gave me a Like - it was only 2 minutes after I posted. Impossible for you to have read the B12 link I posted for you.
Perhaps you intend to read it later ... 🤔 Do let me know your thoughts ...
I know that my B12 is fine.
Have you had an official diagnosis of AF ? Have looked through your previous posts/threads and cannot find a B12 result. Of course I may have missed it ! So is your B12 result over 500 ? Also how is your T3 level ?
my b12 is about 300 and my T3 is 5.7, top quarter of the range. I have taken Bcomplex vitamins for a long time
My b12 used to be 180 some years ago which is why I started taking Bvitamins.
Over 500 would be better as often mentioned here. My B12 was around 300 for years until I learnt more and I live with the consequences. Do look at the link I posted and read about the book and video Could it Be B12 ? by Sally Pacholok. Film on YouTube of the same name. A result over 500 can prevent neurological conditions which if left untreated can be impossible to repair. If your B12 was that low earlier it would have been better to take B12 alone and then a B Complex to keep all the B's in balance. B12 works with Folate/B9 in the body in an important way. Sorry - if you are Hypo your B12 is not fine 🤔
okay thanks. I did take a B12 only at first but it didn't agree with me. It was recommended to take the complex as they all work together
Your AF may be nothing to do with thyroid, I have AF and it's caused by dodgy electrical signals in my heart.
There is a difference between having palpitations and/or tachycardia and having atrial fibrillation. AF needs to be diagnosed by a doctor detecting it by checking your pulse at the time it is happening or (preferably, in my opinion) by having it caught on an ECG.
Tachycardia and palpitations can be caused by all sorts of things, many of which can be fixed.
Low iron can cause tachycardia, low B12 affects the heart, and I'm sure that other low nutrients can cause problems too. Low or high potassium affects the heart rhythm and causes palpitations. High blood sugar will speed up the heart. Low T3 damages the heart and can cause arrhythmia and increase the risk of developing heart failure.
You might have AF, you might not. I'm not convinced that the problem has been proved on the basis of your post.
I havejust been in hospital, a day or ago, had ECG's etc. and the doctors have diagnosed AF
Oh, okay. I still think the things I listed are worth following up. I'm sure that having any of the issues that I mentioned can't be good for someone already diagnosed with AF.
Have you been put on a load of medications as a result?
I have been given a beta blocker to take daily, but not sure whether I will do that. My resting heart rate is already good 60/65. Can't see what good it will do lowering even more. Stupid, actually, so I may stop the beta blocker
You might find this link of interest - the Clinical Knowledge Summary from NICE about atrial fibrillation :
cks.nice.org.uk/atrial-fibr...
Click on the relevant items in the menu on the left hand side (on the left hand side on a PC with a monitor, could be anywhere on a different type of gadget), which includes Diagnosis, Management and Prescribing Information, and there are sub-menus too.
Not sure how old you are but recent research has shown that lowering blood pressure in the elderly decreases oxygen to the brain and other important peripheral bits ...
I hadn't heard about that before, Marz. It makes sense though. Do you have a link to information on this?
Wish I could remember where I read it - will have a search through stuff. Might have been a link from SlowDragon
Lots of American websites mentioning it as info came from American Heart Association or similar. Sorry am useless at links on my phone !! Even mentions lowering BP too much is a possible cause of Dementia. Now that does make sense 🤔
Great Post. Well said. When I experienced palpitations after my TT was dosed with high dose of T4 . What I still can not understand is that Dr's where aware that I was low on Iron . I was not a good converter T4 to T3 . My FT4's where always on the highest lab range while my FT3 *when* tested was close to the lowest range. The heart has T3 receptor sights . Yet no Dr ever flagged these points. I had to learn to advocate for myself .
Luckily I switching to a new Dr that was himself a thyroid patient and was dosing with NDT and was out of the box sympathetic great listener. This Dr turned the tides for me.
*Knowledge Is Power* .
SlowDragonAdministrator
Is the cause of hypothyroidism due to autoimmune thyroid disease also called Hashimoto's diagnosed by high thyroid antibodies?
When were vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 last tested
Do you supplement any vitamin D?
If you do, do you also supplement magnesium?
Low magnesium is often implicated in heart issues. Low ferritin too
We need OPTIMAL vitamin levels when on Levothyroxine to help improve conversion of FT4 to FT3
Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .
Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test. (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).
This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip, best not mentioned to GP or phlebotomist)
Is this how you do your tests?
What are your actual results and ranges for TSH, FT3 and FT4?
TSH, off the top of my head: 0.005 T4 about 5 points above the top of the range. T3. 5.7 (top of range is around 6.2)
nobody has ever mentioned Hashimotos, so really don't know. Have had thyroid condition for 35 years
So do ask for antibodies to be tested - Anti TPO and Anti Tg. The NHS rarely do both - sigh !
I don't understand antibodies. Always totally confused by this.
Look at the Thyroid UK website and read. I didn't know what they were when I was diagnosed with Hashimotos back in 2005. We have to read and learn for ourselves ...
If your antibodies are raised it could mean you have Hashimotos - an auto-immune condition.
in reply to fiftyone
If I understand right, antibodies mostly "Mark" for destruction by the immune system anything they perceive as foreign to the body.
In the case of an autoimmune condition that means they make a mistake so, for many of us here, the poor thyroid comes under "Friendly fire" 
I am not convinced.
The relevant antibodies are to Thyroid peroxidase (TPO) and Thyroglobulin (TG) - substances usually only found inside the thyroid.
Imagine the bloodstream having huge numbers of these antibodies - but they don't mark anything because they are in the bloodstream and TPO and TG are inside the thyroid.
However, if the immune system attacks the thyroid and the contents of thyroid cells and follicles spill into the bloodtream, then the antidboides have something to mark.
I believe it is lymphocytes which attack the thyroid gland.
Would suggest you treat yourself for Christmas and buy a FULL Thyroid and vitamin test from Medichecks or Blue Horizon
Medichecks tests active B12. Blue Horizon only tests serum B12
Medichecks is perhaps cheaper at moment
Always get blood test done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water and last dose Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test
If either TPO or TG thyroid antibodies are high this is Hashimoto's, (also known by medics here in UK more commonly as autoimmune thyroid disease).
About 90% of all primary hypothyroidism in Uk is due to Hashimoto's.
Low vitamins are especially common with Hashimoto's. Food intolerances are very common too, especially gluten. So it's important to get TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested at least once .
Link about thyroid blood tests
thyroiduk.org/tuk/testing/t...
Link about antibodies and Hashimoto's
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...
List of hypothyroid symptoms
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...
SlowDragonAdministrator
Low FT3 can cause Afib ......as can high FT3
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/175...
Here's a whole lot of reading to do
Could you post your recent results, with ranges? It sounds like the same old story, suppressed TSH make doctors panic and think you are over medicated.
Being forced to reduce thyroxine causes symptoms that they assume are of over medication and want to reduce further. Really you are probably under medicated, not enough thyroid hormone - not for you anyway. Some people need slightly over range thyroid hormones.
Same thing happened to me. But after 4 months of reduced levo I began to get increased breathlessness and swollen ankles, which finally convinced the doctor (a wonderful man who really does want to understand and admitted they don't teach them much in med school about thyroid) that I needed an increase.
fiftyone in reply to
it's just the sore tired eyes that are bothering me.
in reply to fiftyone
I have that too, it's called blepharitis. Both hypo and hyperthyroidism can cause that, though for different reasons.
Go to the optician, as the doctor would send you there anyway. They can't prescribe but will hopefully give you a recommendation for Systane eye drops that you can take to the doctor's for prescription.
There are also eye wipes that might help. You can buy the drops over the counter but they are expensive. Hopefully your eyes will improve in a few days, though you will probably have to keep taking the drops
fiftyone in reply to
thank you. I already have systane eyedrops but this problem h as only started since I dropped my levo dose. It is a hypo problem. Never had it before I lowered the dose.
I used to get bouts of tachycardia and breathlessness a few years ago after my doctor reduced my levo dose. Had heart and lung scans which showed all healthy there. When I persuaded her to increase my levo dose again they all went away. This also enabled me to absorb the iron I was taking and increase my levels, which all helped to improve my general well-being.
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