Fatigue, abnormal thyroid blood results, high T... - Thyroid UK

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Fatigue, abnormal thyroid blood results, high TSH and high T4 initially, struggling to get back to 'normal', advice needed please!

Sunshine388 profile image
28 Replies

Hey I'm new here and looking for advice for my husband. Slightly long post so bear with me…

38 year old male with 14 year history of hypothyroidism following hashimotos. Always been on levothyroxine, normally dose can need tweaking every 6-12months but nothing like this year. Generally on around 135mcg.

In June, lack of energy/motivation, irratable, trouble sleeping. Bloods TSH 4.5 (0.4-4), T4 27 (9-25). On 137.5mcg so GP advised to lower dose to 125mcg as husband felt more 'overactive' but said results were irregular.

Repeated 6 weeks later (August) TSH 5.3, T3 5, T4 21. Still not feeling right, dose reduced to 100mcg (lowest ever been on), GP again said results were strange and discussed any recent viral infections - we believe we had COVID end of March before mass testing so never confirmed - and said odd results could be due to a repeat autoimmune response to viral infection. Also discussed how medication taken, always same time in morning, every day when wakes, about 1 hour before breakfast.

6 weeks later (September), extremely fatigued, sleepy, lack of motivation, low mood. Bloods TSH 14.7, T4 18. Dose increased back to usual 137mcg. Thyroid antibodies were also tested (don’t know value sorry), were told they are elevated, higher than normal range but were told this didn’t really tell us much or change treatment.

Following these he’s had regular bloods every 6 weeks. Referred to endocrinologist who didn’t have any great insight to what’s going on but requested thyroid ultrasound which we are awaiting results for. Also advised to stay on same dose for longer time period.

Bloods 12/10: TSH 1.18, T3 not done, T4 26. Dose 137.5mcg

Bloods 26/11: TSH 0.96 (0.4 - 4), T3 6.1 (3.5 - 7.8) T4 25 (9-25). Dose 137.5mcg - feeling ‘overactive’ so dose reduced to 132mcg (125mcg 5 days and 150mcg for 2 days).

Each time dose has been changed over the past year he has a few weeks of starting to feel better, then seems to get unwell again. He’s currently very tired, lacking motivation, irritable, struggling to concentrate and wakes up feeling rough no matter how much sleep he has.

GP appointment booked and next bloods due in January. But does anyone on here have any ideas of what on earth has caused all this?? And if there’s anything we can do to help get him feeling ‘normal’ again? Or what questions to ask GP? Is this a hashimotos flare up? He’s never had anything like this in 14 years and I can’t find much information about it online. Any help or advice is much appreciated.

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shaws profile image
shawsAdministrator

Did your husband follow this method when getting bloods tested for hypothyroidism? :-

Blood draw should be at the earliest possible - even if appointment is made weeks ahead so we can get the earliest time. It is a fasting test although water can be taken.

A gap of 24 hours between the last dose of levothyroxine and test and take it afterwards.

If this method wasn't followed I'd get a new blood test.

GP should also test for B12, Vit D, iron, ferritin and folate.

Post his results and the ranges must always be posted too. Labs differ in their machines and so might the ranges and these allow members to respond because ranges can vary from lab to lab.

I never felt well on levothyroxine at all although many millions seem to do so. Others, like many on this forum need to trial options although it is difficult because the 'authorities' have removed several replacement hormones that enabled many to recover over the years, such as NDT (natural dessicated thyroid hormones) used since 1892 onwards without blood tests but the doctors being aware of the clinical symptoms and people recovered their health. Unfortunately, the 'powers that be removed NDT altogether as its price was raised. T3 was also removed a couple of years ago but now Endocrinologists may prescribe if they think it might be helpful. T3 or T3/T4 combination,

T3 also known as liothyronine is the Active hormone needed in our millions of T3 receptor cells, brain and heart contain the most. T4 also known as levothyroxine is inactive and has to convert to T3.

Always make the blood draw at the earliest possible. It is a fasting test (we can drink water) and allow a gap of 24 hours between last dose of levo or any other thyroid hormone replacement and take it afterwards. This method allows the TSH to remain at its highest and might get the doctor to increase dose. TSH drops throughout the day.

Sunshine388 profile image
Sunshine388 in reply to shaws

Thanks for your reply.

He's never been told to have fasting bloods done. In fact he's been sent for bloods straight after endocrinologist appointments in the middle of the day! He will try this from now on though if it means more consistent results.

The bloods above were all done in same labs so same ranges as first mentioned. We think T3 was measured some of these times but didn't write it down. We are going to request a print out of bloods from GP so we have access to all results.

Can I ask if you have found anything better than levothyroxine? Even when well his dose needs changing slightly at least once a year. We wonder if its in response to doing more or less e.g. starting cycling to work, more/less exercise, trying to look after young children etc. He did get referred a few years ago to endocrinologist and he discussed T3 but they told him it isn't available on nhs and not needed as his T3 is always in normal limits. He's always felt doctors fob him off a bit so doesn't have a lot of faith in them anymore.

We will ask GP to check vitamin levels and get bloods done next week then I will be back for ore advice!

fuchsia-pink profile image
fuchsia-pink in reply to Sunshine388

It's absolutely NOT the case that you can't get lio on the NHS - I get it :)

But it's tricky.

He will need to show he doesn't convert well (which is why those free T3 results are so important) - and will also need to see an endo that is prepared to prescribe T3 meds - and not all do (a) because it' s SO expensive in the UK; (b) because it has a very short half-life and so is difficult to measure and (c) because some of them genuinely do seem to think that it doesn't work and the thousands of us that have found it transformative are suffering from some giant shared delusion (to which I say - if it's only a placebo but it works, what's the problem)

Once you have proof of low T3, it's worth getting the list of T3-friendly endos from Dionne at Thyroid UK - tukadmin@thyroiduk.org - and a separate post asking if anyone can recommend someone near-ish to you. You don't have to see the nearest person but must obv be reasonably convenient

Sunshine388 profile image
Sunshine388 in reply to fuchsia-pink

That's interesting to hear. He's been told his T3 is always within 'normal range', but same person also told him T3 isn't available or do anything different to levothyroxine

🙈 We understand TSH and T4 levels but must admit haven't really looked into understanding T3 levels so will ask for help on here when we get them!

When you say T3 works better for you, is it that it makes you feel better/more energy or does it make your thyroid levels more stable?

fuchsia-pink profile image
fuchsia-pink in reply to Sunshine388

I have never been as badly ill as some people, who are literally bedridden

But adding a bit of T3 meds to the levo has made me feel - well - completely like I was before diagnosis. No brain fog; do a brisk 5 mile walk along the seafront every morning; lost all the hypo weight; have been painting my son's new house for 6 hours a day over new year - lots of up and down ladders, bending down to skirting boards etc - and feel great.And this is what I was like when it was taken away for a few weeks last year :(

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

But it's not a miracle cure and doesn't suit everyone - it's there for people who can't make enough free T3 themselves and for lots of us it's terrific

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Sunshine388

You will see reading posts on the forum many, many people need addition of small doses of T3......but first step is to get FULL thyroid and vitamin testing done

All thyroid tests should ONLY be done 6-8 weeks after constant unchanging dose (and brand) of levothyroxine

All tests done as early as possible in morning before eating or drinking anything other than water and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

Important See exactly what vitamin levels are before starting any supplements to improve to optimal levels

With levothyroxine and T3 we need OPTIMAL vitamin levels

Frequently with Hashimoto’s strictly gluten free diet and/or dairy free diet

Vitamins and food intolerances need addressing BEFORE considering adding T3

It is possible to get T3 prescribed on NHS

Obviously it’s important to regularly test TSH, Ft4 And Ft3 to see if there’s a problem with conversion

Helpful calculator for working out percentage through range

Looking for levothyroxine dose to be high enough to give Ft3 at least 60% through range

Good vitamin levels help improve conversion of Ft4 to Ft3

Dr Toft, past president of the British Thyroid Association and leading endocrinologist, states in Pulse Magazine,

"The appropriate dose of levothyroxine is that which restores euthyroidism and serum TSH to the lower part of the reference range - 0.2-0.5mU/l.

In this case, free thyroxine is likely to be in the upper part of its reference range or even slightly elevated – 18-22pmol/l.

Most patients will feel well in that circumstance.

But some need a higher dose of levothyroxine to suppress serum TSH and then the serum-free T4 concentration will be elevated at around 24-28pmol/l.

This 'exogenous subclinical hyperthyroidism' is not dangerous as long as serum T3 is unequivocally normal – that is, serum total around T3 1.7nmol/l (reference range 1.0-2.2nmol/l)."

(That’s Ft3 at 58% minimum through range)

You can obtain a copy of the articles from Thyroid UK email print it and highlight question 6 to show your doctor



please email Dionne at

tukadmin@thyroiduk.org

fuchsia-pink profile image
fuchsia-pink

Welcome the forum

I'm sorry your husband is having such a miserable time - and that your GP doesn't seem to understand much about hypothyroidism.

So many doctors are obsessed with TSH - but while it's a useful primary diagnosis tool, it doesn't really have much function beyond that - except that once on thyroid meds, it should reduce to less than 2 and probably less than 1.

So his meds shouldn't have been decreased when TSH was 4.5 - instead more thorough blood testing should have been done ...

Ideally you need to test TSH, free T4 and free T3 [as a minimum]. TSH is a message from the pituitary to the thyroid telling it to work harder if it doesn't produce enough thyroid hormone - so that a higher TSH generally indicates an under-performing thyroid. The thyroid produces T4, an inactive hormone, that needs to convert to the active T3 thyroid hormone - which is needed in every cell in your body.

High T4 does not correlate to high T3 if - like me - you are a "poor converter". You are only over-medicated when free T3 is over-range: quite a lot of people need over-range free T4 to get adequate free T3.

You should ideally also test key nutrients - ferritin, folate, vit D and B12 - as your husband's levo works well when these are good (and because a lot of hypos have poor results which need to be boosted with supplements).

I have had some success with my GP by saying these are the tests recommended by Thyroid UK - but you will see LOTS of posts here about private testing. SlowDragon does an excellent summary of private tests (and discounts available through Thyroid UK) and will hopefully pop up in a bit. SeasideSusie gives great tips on how to do a home blood test, if your GP won't do the tests he needs: click on her name and look at her replies to other posters.

Finally, all blood tests should be done early in the morning (when TSH is highest), fasting, and 24 hours from the previous dose of levo (take the next dose straight afterwards). Generally, levo should be taken on an empty stomach, just with water, two hours after or one hour before other food and drink - and well away from any supplements.

Please come back when he has full testing results, and post the results (and lab range for each afterwards) and the lovely people here will help you to understand them x

Sunshine388 profile image
Sunshine388 in reply to fuchsia-pink

Thanks for your reply.

He has lost a bit of faith in GP's from their lack of understanding of hypothyroidism, but our current one is quite good at investigating things so hopefully will do a form to check vitamin levels. He has previously been low in Vit D so could be this.

We understand if TSH is high it means you are underactive, but why would his T4 be elevated/on the boundary of normal with a high TSH? His symptoms also seemed more 'hyper' but he does find it difficult to differentiate between hypo and hyper. As mentioned above we are asking GP for print out of bloods to see what T3 has been doing i measured.

He's got an appointment and bloods next week so will be back when we have results!

fuchsia-pink profile image
fuchsia-pink in reply to Sunshine388

I've found vit D is the hardest to get on the NHS (last time, the lab simply refused to do it, although it had been requested by my endo rather than a mere GP).

A lot of hypo and hyper symptoms can be similar - but a high TSH is always bad news in my experience :(

I'm guessing the free T4 is high as well as TSH because free T3 is really low - so the pituitary thinks the thyroid is still struggling (nd low free T3 would also make your husband feel rough) but will be interested to see his results when you get them.

Don't forget to stop any supplements containing biotin a few days before the blood draw, as biotin can distort the results x

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Welcome to the forum

It could be that Covid upset things....or that might be entirely coincidental.....if indeed it was Covid

Does your husband always get same brand of levothyroxine

Always take levothyroxine on empty stomach and then nothing apart from water for at least an hour after?

What vitamin supplements does he currently/normally take?

Every time dose is reduced (usually inappropriately) this tends to lower vitamin levels

Low vitamin levels tend to lower conversion of Levothyroxine (Ft4) into active hormones (Ft3)

For full Thyroid evaluation your husband needs TSH, FT4 and FT3 tested.

Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12

Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially with autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's)

Ask GP to test vitamin levels or test privately alongside thyroid testing

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .

Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test. (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)

Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or all relevant vitamins

List of private testing options

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

Medichecks Thyroid plus antibodies and vitamins

medichecks.com/products/adv...

Thriva Thyroid plus antibodies and vitamins By DIY fingerpick test

thriva.co/tests/thyroid-test

Thriva also offer just vitamin testing

Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes antibodies, cortisol and vitamins by DIY fingerprick test

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

If you can get GP to test vitamins then cheapest option for just TSH, FT4 and FT3 £29 (via NHS private service )

and 10% off down to £26.10 if go on thyroid uk for code

thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...

monitormyhealth.org.uk/

Also vitamin D available as separate test via MMH

Or alternative Vitamin D NHS postal kit

vitamindtest.org.uk

Tips from SeasideSusie here on how to do DIY blood test

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Sunshine388 profile image
Sunshine388 in reply to SlowDragon

Thanks for your reply.

As an admin on here have you found anyone else mention strange results following covid infection? I know the antibodies are particularly nasty and can trigger autoimmune responses but not seen anything about it effecting thyroid.

He generally does get the same brand, do different brands make a difference?

He is pretty good at taking his tablet first thing, and it's around a hour before he eats or drinks anything.

I didn't realise there was such a connection between thyroid conditions and vitamin levels. His vitamin D levels were low a few years ago. He should probably be taking it during winter but doesn't currently. He occasionally takes a standard multivitamin. Again should probably be taking it more frequently. GP is quite good for requesting bloods so hoping he will check vitamin levels but if not will use your private recommendations above.

He's never been told to have fasting bloods for thyroid function but will do from now on.

We will speak to GP and get bloods done then will be back for advice!

DoeStewart profile image
DoeStewart in reply to Sunshine388

Hi there, I am supposed to have Long Covid, getting an antibody test on 12th January to confirm I have actually had covid at some time. I have had 7/8ths thyroid removed over 30 yesrs ago, take 100mcg Levothyroxine each day and had my last bloods checked at GP surgery in November 2020 which were all fine. I ended up in A & E on 17th December and it was discovered there that my thyroid was showing abnormal results, TSH had dropped below range and T4 had rocketed above range, no T3 had been tested. I was advised it was due to either covid or another virus, Levo reduced to 75mcg per day and go back for blood tests in 4 weeks.

Sunshine388 profile image
Sunshine388 in reply to DoeStewart

Thanks for your reply. I honestly think there are going to be quite a few long term things caused by covid, we just are obviously currently focusing research in more necessary areas at the moment so it is not being publicised much. And no doctor will confirm something without sufficient evidence in place.

We asked GP and endocrinologist for covid antibody test but both refused to do one. I also wonder now if it's too late to show as they might not even still be there after 9 months.

Hope you are feeling better soon and your change in dose is helping.

DoeStewart profile image
DoeStewart in reply to Sunshine388

I was told by the hospital doctor to get an antibody test, considering I had numerous blood tests while in the A & E department you would have thought if it was necessary it could have been done as part of their investigations?. I was just about to book a private antibody test costing £70 when my husband noticed 2 GP surgeries in our area advertising antibody tests, they were offering them to anybody going for blood tests at the surgery. I looked at my own surgery web site but nothing was mentioned about the antibody tests. When I rang the surgery to book my next thyroid blood test I queried antibody tests and reluctantly was told they did them, it was like a secret. You are right, some people keep their antibodies for many months whilst others only last a few weeks. It will be interesting to see what my test shows? I hope you get some answers and improved health for your husband.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Sunshine388

We never recommend taking multivitamins, too little of what you do need plus stuff you don’t want

Getting tested and only supplement if required

Yes different brands of levothyroxine are not interchangeable

Many patients do NOT get on well with Teva brand of Levothyroxine. Teva contains mannitol as a filler, which seems to be possible cause of problems. Teva is the only brand that makes 75mcg tablet. So if avoiding Teva for 75mcg dose ask for 25mcg to add to 50mcg or just extra 50mcg tablets to cut in half

Teva, Aristo and Glenmark are the only lactose free tablets

Most easily available (and often most easily tolerated) are Mercury Pharma or Accord

Note Accord is also boxed as Almus via Boots, and Northstar 50mcg and 100mcg via Lloyds ....but beware 25mcg Northstar is Teva

List of different brands available in U.K.

thyroiduk.org/medications-f...

Teva poll

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Once you find a brand that suits you, best to make sure to only get that one at each prescription.

Watch out for brand change when dose is increased or at repeat prescription.

academic.oup.com/jcem/artic...

Physicians should: 1) alert patients that preparations may be switched at the pharmacy; 2) encourage patients to ask to remain on the same preparation at every pharmacy refill; and 3) make sure patients understand the need to have their TSH retested and the potential for dosing readjusted every time their LT4 preparation is switched (18).

Levothyroxine is an extremely fussy hormone and should always be taken on an empty stomach and then nothing apart from water for at least an hour after

Many people take Levothyroxine soon after waking, but it may be more convenient and perhaps more effective taken at bedtime

verywellhealth.com/best-tim...

No other medication or supplements at same as Levothyroxine, leave at least 2 hour gap.

Some like iron, calcium, magnesium, HRT, omeprazole or vitamin D should be four hours away

(Time gap doesn't apply to Vitamin D mouth spray)

If normally take levothyroxine at bedtime/in night ...adjust timings as follows prior to blood test

If testing Monday morning, delay Saturday evening dose levothyroxine until Sunday morning. Delay Sunday evening dose levothyroxine until after blood test on Monday morning. Take Monday evening dose levothyroxine as per normal

Sunshine388 profile image
Sunshine388 in reply to SlowDragon

Thanks for your advice. I am thinking Vitamin D may be low as all his symptoms also fit with Vit D deficiency. It doesn't explain the initial abnormal bloods but could explain current issues. So will fight with GP to check it!

We thought he always gets the same brand, but just checked his current boxes. Most are MercuryPharma but all his 25mcg are Teva. We now realise the boxes look pretty similar so have no idea if he's always given a variety of brands. When you say most people don't get on with Teva, is it that it gives them other side effects? Or does it effect their thyroid blood levels? If it effects blood levels this could be the reason his blood levels fluctuate in previous years maybe. Guessing it's not good to be taking a mix of brands as he is at the moment if the brands are not interchangeable?

An endocrinologist previously suggested taking levothyroxine before bed. He tried this but felt it made his levels more unstable so is back to when first wakes up. He's re-booked blood test next week for early morning so can be done fasting.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Sunshine388

For a few people (especially if lactose intolerant) Teva is by far the best

For thousands of people it’s by far the worst

If only taking 25mcg Teva alongside Mercury Pharma it may be enough to upset.....but not give clear demonstration that it’s intolerable

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Suggest he gets new prescription ASAP and makes sure all tablets are Mercury Pharma. (May need to try lots of pharmacies - small independent pharmacies often more helpful)

Meanwhile cut 100mcg levothyroxine into 1/4’s to take as the 25mcg instead until get new prescription

tattybogle profile image
tattybogle

If you take away the possible unknown ?covid effects on results for a moment. ...There are some other things to consider when trying to understand how you can sometimes get TSH that doesn't correspond with fT4/3 levels.

The fT4/3 test measures what is left of the last dose you took , plus a bit of 'left overs' from the previous few days (T4 has a 'half-life' in the blood of about 7ish days )

The TSH level is more of a window into the recent past' ie could be looking at last week or even longer. TSH takes a while to respond to changes in blood levels of T4/3. This is why they make you wait for 6 weeks for a blood test on a new dose.

So if 'x' (either own thyroid changing output due to hashimoto's , or timing/level of dose) has caused the levels of t4/3 to be different, the TSH level may not have caught up at the date the blood was done.

Of course it's also possible that covid effected results . There have been a few studies posted here recently that do show some effects on hospitalised covid patients, but so far i think the effects look similar to what you would expect with any very severe/acute illness , known as NTI Non Thyroidal Illness syndrome, and the effects on thyroid results were not long lasting. If you search under

diogenes old posts you might find them .

But the issue with you husbands results seems more long lasting than the above possibilities allow for. I'm going to write it out in the way my brain works and see if it makes any more sense to me.

TSH 4.5 (0.4-4), T4 27 (9-25). On 137.5mcg (reduced to 125 based on symptoms and over range fT4, and ignoring oddly high TSH) seems reasonable , GP has to decide which to ignore when they say opposite things, so went with symptoms as the deciding factor.

TSH 5.3, T3 5, T4 21. on 125mcg (reduced to 100 , based on i don't know what logic ?)

I disagree with a reduction here , and also thing it's too large a reduction at once.

This result tells me that it's probably not low T3 that's causing the higher than expected TSH.

It also tells me that fT4 has reduced as expected with dose reduction , and that TSH has risen as expected with dose reduction.

But still doesn't answer why the TSH is this high in the first place.

TSH 14.7, T4 18 on 100mcg. TSH has risen in response to lower dose, but by rather more than you'd expect. and fT4 is lower in response to lower dose as expected.

Dose returned to previous 137, based on TSH & symptoms.

We don't have an fT3, but at the last test, we did , and it didn't solve the puzzle of the high TSH in relation to fT4.

Referred to Endo , /ultrasound/leave dose alone for longer. seems like good idea.

TSH 1.18, T3 not done, T4 26. Dose 137.5mcg TSH has fallen a lot, certainly that is partly in response to increase from 100 to 137, but odd that it's fallen so far, and it bears no resemblance to the previous time dose was 137.

fT4 has risen as expected on increased dose , and is now same as it was when on 137 before ie , slightly over range.

TSH 0.96 (0.4 - 4), T3 6.1 (3.5 - 7.8) T4 25 (9-25). Dose 137.5mcg - feeling ‘overactive’ so dose reduced to 132mcg (125mcg 5 days and 150mcg for 2 days).

TSH similar to previous test, fT4 similar and also consistent with June test on 137, fT3 seems consistent with previous ft3 test in relation to fT4 level.

So where does that get us ?...

T3 levels don't have an obvious problem,

T4 levels seem to consistently follow what 's expected for dose.

but TSH has for reasons unknown gone up and then down again much more than expected this year.

It would be interesting to know what his 'usual' TSH was on 137mcg, before this year.

In my recent experience , a dose change of just 12.5 mcg Levo will mess me up for about 8/10 weeks, regardless of whether it was the right move. and then IF it was the right move , i feel gradually better as time goes on.

So i'd say to allow for this possibility, and don't make mind up until been on same dose for a while ... i reckon swings in TSH for whatever reason make us feel bad for ages.

I do wonder if in your husbands case the reduction from 125 to 100 was a bad move, and wasted time.

But i'm afraid , despite applying my logic to his numbers, i'm not sure what i'd do next, other than not allow such big adjustment s again .

Hopefully the ultrasound may shed some more light on what's gone on, and i'm glad they have referred him to an Endo.

It looks to me likefT4/3 are doing as expected , and are only being influenced by dose, but the TSH is reacting more than expected .

Don't have any bright ideas for what would cause this.

Oh dear...

If i was trying to make a point , i've forgotten what it was .... but i'll leave this up anyway , in case it's of any help to anyone.

Sunshine388 profile image
Sunshine388 in reply to tattybogle

Thanks for your reply. We agree with what you've said and I think your thoughts are similar to ours so it is reassuring to hear! In hindsight the decrease to 100mcg is illogical and was a bad move. At the time from what the doctor said it seemed to make sense, and as he had initially improved from reducing dose. It has not helped that he's been really struggling to focus when feeling his worst. I've tried to be with him for appointments when he's feeling most ill but this hasn't always been possible.

I didn't know you can feel unwell as TSH swings, so maybe he starts feeling unwell after a few weeks as his TSH is changing. I think smaller dose changes each time are a sensible suggestion and staying on same dose for longer is ideal, but not always possible when he's been feeling so unwell.

tattybogle profile image
tattybogle in reply to Sunshine388

To be fair , i don't 'know' that the process of TSH moving (and therefore thyroid hormone levels) makes you feel off, it's just something i've started to wonder about over time reading stuff on here and looking at my own adventures into 'am i over or undermedicated ?'

It's so hard to know what's best to do , and what your body is telling you, but if i learned anything from my own recent moves from 125 to 112.5 to 106 to 100 and back to 112.5 last year , it was "Smaller change is Good, Longer wait is Good."

In my case GP was maybe correct to reduce to 112.5 , but then because TSH didn't respond in time for next retest he insisted on further reduction to 100, which proved to be a bad idea, so i'm now back on112..5 after a 'frank discussion' was had.

However , even though ive been back on 112.5 for 9 months , if i'm honest it took about 4 months before i felt as well as i did before he mucked me about.

I did find how i feel could be different every week for about 8/10 weeks , so i've definitely learned to wait a long time on a dose before making up my mind.

I think GP's 'over correcting' is a big problem.....it's like trying to get a van with worn out steering to go in a straight line down the motorway.... you just need tiny adjustments on the steering wheel, and the minute you make a big movement , you're back to zig zag ing

Hope things settle down again for you both, it's just a pain in the ass, this thyroid game.

Partner20 profile image
Partner20

Your mention of the possibility of you both having had Covid-19 earlier stands out. Your husband's thyroid levels seem to have no particular pattern, and no logical relationship with either each other or his medication. Any illness can affect tsh and other thyroid levels, and there have been suggestions that some people have developed thyroid issues post-Covid. This could be a possible reason for your husband's fluctuating levels, but, more importantly, his symptoms could well be those of long-Covid, which seem to include extreme and debilitating fatigue, depression and mood swings, among other things. Hopefully an endo might shine a light on your situation, but a reliable Covid-19 antibody test and an immunology referral might be helpful, too.

tattybogle profile image
tattybogle in reply to Partner20

"Your husband's thyroid levels seem to have no particular pattern, and no logical relationship with either each other or his medication."

Well, the TSH doesn't , but FT4 and 3 results do follow dose exactly.

Sunshine388 profile image
Sunshine388 in reply to Partner20

Thanks for your reply. I think we feel similar that there is no obvious explainable pattern with his bloods, especially TSH at the start of him feeling unwell. The long-covid is a good suggestion, he's going to discuss the possibility of long-covid with GP as they are more aware of it now than when all this started. GP and endo both refused to request covid antibodies when he asked previously. I have seen you can get a private antibody test online, these are finger prick bloods posted and checked in a lab but no idea how relaible they are or if it would even show up 9 months later!

Partner20 profile image
Partner20

We had similar concerns about having contracted Covid very early on, long before any testing was available, but the antibody tests at the time, even if you could get them, were not considered reliable. I am not sure if the situation today. When my partner mentioned this later to our GP as a possible cause of test results that were being investigated, he was ignored. I myself feel that it could be behind some long-lasting symptoms of mine, possibly due to Covid's affect on autoimmune issues I have. We shall probably never know, though, unfortunately. It seems that when there is no explanation for test results and/or symptoms, there is little that can be done. I hope that something or someone will prove helpful for you, as I know how frustrating it can be not to be able to see a light at the end of the tunnel.

Sunshine388 profile image
Sunshine388

Hi, thanks for your replies, can't work out how to edit post so hoping some of you may see this reply. Just to update my husband got his thyroid bloods checked (fasting bloods and dosing taken as recommended on here):

TSH 3.32 (0.1-5.0) T3 5.6 (3.5-6.5) T4 21 (12-23)

GP said he'd checked vitamins in September

Vit D 48.1 (50-150)

Vit B12 682 (200-900)

Folate 11.3 (3-12)

Can't see that ferritin was done, however Haemoglobin 165 (130-180) so presume ferritin is ok.

We thought Vitamin D may be lower as now winter so retested privately and it is 61 (50-150). He is now supplementing with 1000 units a day to optimise this over winter anyway.

GP says thyroid bloods are fine so no dose change needed. He's now going down the long covid route and treating it is chronic fatigue. Husband still has extreme fatigue, 'brain fog' and little motivation.

He has an appointment with endocrinologist in Feb to discuss thyroid ultrasound. Does anyone have any advice? We are at a loss and really struggling to work out what is going on and whether it is even thyroid related anymore. Thanks in advance.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Sunshine388

Vitamin D obviously far too low

GP will often only prescribe to bring levels to 50nmol.

Some areas will prescribe to bring levels to 75nmol or even 80nmol

leedsformulary.nhs.uk/docs/...

GP should advise on self supplementing if over 50nmol, but under 75nmol (but they rarely do)

mm.wirral.nhs.uk/document_u...

But with Hashimoto’s, improving to around 80nmol or 100nmol by self supplementing may be better

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/218...

vitamindsociety.org/pdf/Vit...

Once your husband Improves level, very likely he will need on going maintenance dose to keep it there.

Test twice yearly via vitamindtest.org.uk

Vitamin D mouth spray by Better You is very effective as it avoids poor gut function. There’s a version made that also contains vitamin K2 Mk7

amazon.co.uk/BetterYou-Dlux...

It’s trial and error what dose we need, with hashimoto’s we frequently need higher dose than average

Calculator for working out dose you may need to bring level to 40ng/ml = 100nmol

grassrootshealth.net/projec...

Government recommends everyone supplement October to April

gov.uk/government/news/phe-...

Taking too much vitamin D is not a good idea

chriskresser.com/vitamin-d-...

Web links about taking important cofactors - magnesium and Vit K2-MK7

Magnesium best taken in the afternoon or evening, but must be four hours away from levothyroxine

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

livescience.com/61866-magne...

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

Vitamin K2 mk7

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

2 good videos on magnesium

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Vitamin D and Covid

Notice how much vitamin D many of these medics are taking

vitamind4all.org/letter.pdf

cwill profile image
cwill

I will leave others to comment on the thyroid bloods but if looking for advice and info on Long Covid and particularly how to cope with fatigue:

Long Covid Physio

longcovid.physio/

Physios with Long Covid who are publishing excellent advice and info.

Physios For ME

physiosforme.com

With good section on long Covid and tools such as heart rate pacing.

Sunshine388 profile image
Sunshine388 in reply to cwill

Thanks for this, I've passed the links on to my husband

🙂

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