I’m new here and was just after a little advice and maybe a little positivity in terms of others stories.
I’ve had hypo symptoms for years (unknowingly as my T4 and TSH levels were always within range). In July this year I found myself a functional medicine GP and she had me do a whole host of tests. I have many issues such as SIBO, leaky gut and heavy metal toxicity plus a lack of b vits to name a few.
She had me do a full thyroid panel and due to my high RT3 she has suggested that I temporarily try T3 for which I have just got a prescription and received my pills this morning from Germany. She has told me to take 1/4 tablet, twice a day. So 10mg in all per day.
I suffer from chronic fatigue and memory problems (I have the genetic mutation for Alzheimer’s which I desperately want to keep at bay) and have done for years. I’m on particular diets to help reduce inflammation in my body. I’ve eliminated dairy and my sinus issues have improved and I’ve recently started to regain my sense of smell, which is amazing!
So my question is; how has taking T3 on its own made anyone feel? A friend likened it to rocket fuel but I currently don’t feel any different? Am I hoping it will make a difference too quickly? How long do you think it will take before I start to notice any difference if I notice it at all. Is there an optimal time to take it? Do I take with fluids or food? Is 10mg enough per day?
Thanks for any advice or positive stories you may have. I also welcome the negative ones too. ☺️
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Many people have wrong ideas about T3 - also known as liothyronine.
T4 is levothyroxine and is an inactive hormone that should convert to T3 - the Active thyroid hormone - but it doesn't always do so effectively.
Millions of people do fine on levothyroxine and they wont be searching the internet for help/advice. Many can also recover on a T3/T4 combination.
T3 is not 'rocket-fuel'. What it does do is go directly into our millions of T3 receptor cells and brain and heart have the most to enable our body to function as normal.
Many hypothyroid people - if not feeling well on levothyroxine may improve if T3 is added to T4 (levothyroxine). If you are in the UK, doctors have been told they cannot prescribe T3 (the price has gone sky-high) and that an Endocrinologist alone may do so.
Thank you 🙏🏼 I will take a look at the link. I’ve also just read your bio and that’s a heck of a journey you’ve been on to get well. It scares me immensely that I will never feel well because I don’t think I ever have.
My functional medicine gp said my thyroid is fine but tht I currently have functional hypothyroidism and that once I get the metals out of my brain and body then hopefully my rT3 won’t be a problem. She is trying to help me feel normal through the process as I just struggle to function.
My friend is great at feeling all supplements and how she reacts off them. She has b12 injections and is flying 🙈 She said she’s had T3 and she felt great within and hour?!
I also have developed alopecia areata, I had a Pernicious Anaemia diagnosed long before I had any symptoms (due to a very good doctor diagnosing) so have been having regular B12 injections (3 monthly) but this year I have bought my own B12 and having monthly injections. It must be 40 years since diagnose with P.A.
Once you get onto an optimum dose of thyroid hormones that suits you, there's no reason you cannot do everything you wish.
We used to have options but 'those who have the power (power must have gone to their heads) to withdraw NDT(natural dessicated thyroid hormone) made from animals' glands since 1892 ) without any notice and safety well proven. That gave them the excuse to withdraw a replacement thyroid hormone that permitted patients to have all the thyroid hormones a healthy gland would do. They've also withdrawn T3 from being prescribed by GPs so only Endocrinologists can prescribe but may not do so due to the cost now exorbitant. That gave them the excuse to withdraw a replacement thyroid hormone that permitted patients to have all the thyroid hormones a healthy gland would do.
I’ve been self injecting b12 for the past 3-4 months. It’s helping but I’m not terribly low on b12. I inject every 5-10 days depending on how I feel.
I’m concerned that taking T3 will cause havoc with my actual thyroid functioning properly. Currently my gland isn’t damaged just a temporary functional issue so I don’t want to have to rely on T3 long term. I really don’t understand it all 🙈
Also really shocked when heard about the issues related to NHS and thyroid tests and meds. It’s such a mess when so many people rely on the meds.
Believe me when I say that T3 was miraculous for me and that is not an understatement. My body couldn't cope at all on levothyroxine, nor a T4/T3 combination (it does for many who're hypo).
What shocked me most of all that the British Thyroid Association withdrew NDT last year (natural dessicated thyroid hormones) that saved people's lives from1892 onwards). The fact that they stated lies in order to do so, shows just what type of characters are at the top of the tree and I would have thought they would be sympathetic.
Our older and well-trained doctors lost their licences if they didn't toe the line. Two of our best loved doctors (now deceased) restored thousands of patients' lives but were pursued as if they were Dr Shipmans. Both of whom had distinguished careers and loved by their patients.
One was Dr Gordon Skinner and another was Dr Barry Peatfield. Dr Barry resigned his licence so that he could 'advise patients' how to recover. For the way he actually diagnosed/treated patients. The following is one example of many/many patients.
"Once you get onto an optimum dose of thyroid hormones that suits you, there's no reason you cannot do everything you wish."
True. I ran the Boston Marathon in 2006 after having a full thyroidectomy due to papillary thyroid cancer in 2004. I've traveled to Cuba, England, France, Italy, Greece, Lebanon, Cyprus, Palestine & Israel since I retired in 2014.
It takes a fair amount of perseverance to get to optimal thyroid dosing but it's doable. Finding a competent doctor who will prescribe the appropriate thyroid hormone and dosing is critical.
Apparently, Big Pharma saw a 'golden opportunity' to improve their profits and introduced blood tests for diagnosing instead of the doctor giving us a trial due to 'original symptoms'. I believe they also got monetary rewards.
All medical professionals who trained as students (I believe) were taught how to diagnose/treat patients who had a failing thyroid gland without tests.
If we use our common sense 'natural' dessicated thyroid hormones made from animals' thyroid glands from 1892 onwards were withdrawn - why was it removed from being prescribed? In the UK this was withdrawn - without notice - so that panic was caused amongst people who were well upon it. What stress this decision caused! Plus the removal of T3, due to high increased cost. Another disaster. Big Pharma seemed to be greedy and I think we (the patients) were looked upon as helping to improve their profits.
I wonder how many 'extras' are prescribed by doctors to try to alleviate disabling symptoms from anti-depressants (I assume) or additional prescriptions to try to control pain/symptoms etc.)
Don't worry too much as absorbing information is a lot to take in initially, so take one step at a time. I am now well and when some T3 was added to T4, it was a revelation and I couldn't believe the change in my body and my severe palpitations resolved too.
The following is about RT3:
Excerpt:
" 4. How useful is a reverse T3 test in diagnosing HYPOTHYROIDISM?
I believe the test is of virtually no value in diagnosing hypothyroidism, if by hypothyroidism we mean a thyroid hormone deficiency. When the thyroid gland produces too little T4 and T3, less of these two hormones are available. The vast bulk of what the thyroid gland produces and releases into the blood is T4. With a lower-than-usual amount of T4 available, its likely that more of it will be converted to T3 rather than reverse T3. This presumably results from a need to keep the T3 high enough to maintain effective cell function. Also presumably, reverse T3 production from T4 will decrease to some degree. As a result, in moderate-to-severe hypothyroidism we might find low T4, low-to-mid-range T3, and a low reverse T3. However, as far as I know, no researchers have shown that this lab result pattern is useful for diagnosing hypothyroidism.
This pattern in hypothyroidism is only a conception based on principles. But in actual practice, Ive rarely seen this pattern in hypothyroid patients. I believe the reason is that when the TSH and thyroid hormone levels are in range, their levels vary (as Japanese researchers say) dramatically every thirty minutes or so. There is no correlation from thirty-minute period to thirty-minute period, day-to-day, and week-to-week.
This is the method when having blood tests for thyroid hormones.
Always get the earliest possible appointment, even if made weeks ahead.
It has to be at the earliest possible, fasting (you can drink water) and allow a gap of 24 hours between last dose of levo and the test and take it afterwards.
A 'full thyroid function test' (rarely done) consists of TSH, T3, T4, Free T4, Free T3 and thyroid antibodies. If antibodies are present this is different from Hypothyroidism and is called Hashimoto's disease due to antibodies. The antibodies attack the thyroid gland until the person is hypothyroid. Antibodies can be reduced by going gluten-free.
Also request a check on B12, Vit D, iron, ferritin and folate in case anything is deficient.
My regular gp will not do a full thyroid panel. Because my levels of T4 and TSH are within range he just won’t have any of it. He wanted to diagnose me with chronic fatigue and have done with it which is why I’m now paying privately for everything.
I currently don’t take any thyroid meds and only this lunch time received the T3. I have had a 1/4 tablet so far.
I had my first and only tests done in September and thankfully done as you described. It was all via post. Thyroid Stim. Hormone, Free T3, Free Thyroxine (FT4), Thyroglobulin Antibodies, Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies, Total Thyroxine (T4), Reverse T3.
I’m definitely injecting b12 as it s a bit low and it helps with energy as it moves metals or something and I’m have a methyl multi vitamin and a plethora of other stuff.
I still find the whole thyroid thing confusing so I’m just going to have to have to see if it makes any difference. Can I ask you how you source yourself T3 without a GP prescription? I had to get my fmgp to send a prescription to the German pharmacy and then I paid and they sent it direct to me.
Ahhh ok. At least it’s not too expensive the way I have to do it. I believe, from what I’ve been told, that the T3 skyrocketed in price about 2 years ago? Crazy how profit over health always wins out
I think the 'professionals' were elated that they had an excuse to remove T3 from being prescribed. Thyroid help Associations put their case before The Lords, so some small changes were made in that the patient had to consult with an Endocrinologist but many GPs would not do a referral. Also it made Endo's patient's lists longer and many would still not prescribe a trial of T3s.
T3 wasn't the only established safe replacement but the very original one was (NDT) which saved lives from 1892 up until the present time, without blood tests (Big Pharma makes $$$$s from blood tests).
There was misinformation given in order to remove NDTs -without notice and causing panic amonst those whose health had been restored.
I have lost all respect for those who have made these decisions as it is only those who have had distinguished careers and loved by their patients. who can determine what enables them restore their patients' health but who are treated as criminals.
Sounds like a very helpful and thorough doctor! Is she private? Would you mind sending me a private message with her name please for if my next plan fails!
Wishing you good health and welcome to the forum 😀
She is and has personal experience of hashimoto’s.
She currently got a year long waiting list and isn’t taking on nee patients. I was lucky to get in when I did. She is private and it’s not the cheapest but so far everything she has said makes sense and is working. I’ll message you her name
Do you have results from testing BEFORE starting on T3
Reverse T3 is often a red herring
Taking almost any dose of T3 will completely suppress your TSH, and shut down your own thyroid output
For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested. Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12
Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially if you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) diagnosed by raised Thyroid antibodies
Have you had vitamins and thyroid antibodies tested
What vitamin supplements are you currently taking?
Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .
This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)
Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or thyroid antibodies or all relevant vitamins
Hi, yes all tests were done in July results received in September. I haven’t ever taken any thyroid meds until they arrived today. I’ve heard that taking T3 can suppress your own thyroid so it is a worry, maybe that is why it’s a low dose?
I had everything tested using a PURA test and it did all the thyroid panel and b12, vit d etc. I’m supplementing with Meg with, taurine, vit d, v12 shots, vit c, methyl multi, probiotic, fish oil, quercetin, special diets and using water filter etc. I can’t even begin to tell you what I’m doing and how much I’m spending to get myself well. 🙈 I’m getting amalgams removed and then I will be chelating for the best part of 2 years. It seems the hypo is just down to all the other stuff happening to me and that the taking T3 is temporary. She wants me to feel normal for a while.
I’ll have a look and read through the links you posted. Thanks for the taking the time to reply
Did you have full iron panel test to see if just ferritin low, or low iron too
What’s your diet likeAre you vegetarian or vegan?
Eating iron rich foods like liver or liver pate once a week plus other red meat, pumpkin seeds and dark chocolate, plus daily orange juice or other vitamin C rich drink can help improve iron absorption
Was veggie cor a few years but not any more. I can’t stomach liver... tried so many times but I just struggle to eat it. Only just managing to eat steak at the moment I follow an AIP and a low histamine diet, no dairy, no nuts, no gluten, no/low sugar, no legumes. I take methyl folate and also eat lots of folate rich green leafy foods. Quite a restrictive diet but I’m working towards sorting my leaky gut and SIBO. My ultimate goal is to be able to detox the heavy metals which I believe is why my fmgp hasn’t prescribed iron?
The doctor is looking at all my symptoms together and I’m having a consult with her endo early next year. It’s a real minefield and I definitely have hypo symptoms so will be interesting if I feel a difference on the T3. So confused with this... thank goodness for this forum and it’s knowledgable people. Thanks again 🙏🏼
I’ve heard that taking T3 can suppress your own thyroid so it is a worry,
No, it's not a worry, actually, because it doesn't suppress thyroid production permenantly, just while you're taking it. Stop taking it, for whatever reason, and the thyroid will go back to making as much hormone as it did before you started taking it. Same goes for T4 (levo).
She had me do a full thyroid panel and due to my high RT3 she has suggested that I temporarily try T3
I have to say, I think your doctor is barking up the wrong tree. Your rT3 is high, and your FT3 is low, but I really don't think there's any connection between the two. Excess rT3 does not cause low FT3.
As SlowDragon says, there can be many, many reasons for high rT3:
* Chronic fatigue
* Acute illness and injury
* Chronic disease
* Increased cortisol (stress)
* Low cortisol (adrenal fatigue)
* Low iron
* Lyme disease
* Chronic inflammation
* Selenium deficiency
* Excess physical, mental and environmental stresses
* Beta-blocker long-term use such as propranolol, metoprolol, etc.
* Physical injury is a common cause of increased RT3
* Viruses, such as flu
* Starvation/severe calorie restriction
* Mistreated diabetes
* Cirrhosis of the liver
* Fatty liver disease
* Renal Failure.
* Fever of unknown cause
* Detoxing high heavy metals levels
* Etc. etc. etc.
And the only connection between high rT3 and thyroid is when your FT4 is very high in-range/over-range. Your FT4 is neither. It's only a tad over mid-range. So, your high rT3 is not caused by any sort of thyroid problem.
And, taking T3 is not any sort of cure or treatment for high rT3 - in fact, high rT3 is probably not even a problem in and of itself. It's a symptom, not a disease. But, taking T3 is just not going to bring the level down. But, the idea that it's only temporary might just be a tad over-optimistic, I'm afraid.
What probably will happen is that taking T3 will will raise your FT3, and that in itself will make you feel better. Although, there's no guarantee that 10 mcg will be enough. You might have to raise it over time. Nothing helps unless your take enough of it, not even T3.
So, rather than concentrating on the rT3, your doctor should be trying to find out why your FT3 is so low.
Also, have you had an ultrasound of your thyroid gland? The fact that your antibodies are low doesn't guarantee that you don't have Hashi's. 20% of Hashi's sufferers never have over-range antibodies, but they do have Hashi's just the same, because the antibodies are not the disease. And, if you do have Hashi's, any damage that's been already done will show up in an ultrasound. So, worth doing, I think.
And, of course, she could take a look through the list of possible causes for high rT3 and see if there's anything that needs correcting there. Have you had your cortisol tested, for example. But, although you haven't elaborated on your symptoms, one thing is certain, they are not caused by high rT3, which is inert, and doesn't cause you to feel anything.
Thank you for responding. I shall take a good look at all this in the morning. There’s a lot here to process. A few people have mentioned that taking thyroid meds can stop you’re thyroid working so interesting to hear you think it will do no long term harm? If I read that correctly. It’s late and I’m very tired 🙈 10mg is just to start so I guess I would need to increase once I either feel no change or speak to the endo?
Health is far too complicated and I’m so lost and paying a fortune trying to get better or at least not get any worse. And no ultrasound as yet. ☺️
A few people have mentioned that taking thyroid meds can stop you’re thyroid working
Yes, it will. Temporarily. I had the proof in 2013. I won't go into details, because it's long and boring. But I was ill (non-thyroid illness), not thinking straight, and my thyroid had been declared dead some years before, due to Hashi's. I made the irrational decision to stop my thyroid meds - T3 only - and stayed off them for about 6 months. When I finally saw sense and got tested, my presumed dead thyroid had started working again - TSH was high and Frees low, but it had managed to keep me alive. So, don't worry on that score.
Don’t like to add to your problems but In a few days we are all likely to find that we can’t get lio from Europe. But don’t despair. Someone on here gave me a contact on line where the lio, Tiromel, is Turkish but is supplied from Hong Kong. So not a problem with Brexit. Cost is similar to Germany which is just as well because I take 75mcg a day! Message me for details.
Hi, I’m new here too and it looks like we have a similar journey. I’ve been taking over the counter NDT for a couple years, due to being hypo but still in range, but have just switched over to T3 &T4 combo with a new dr who finally acknowledged my hypo symptoms. I got my T3 from Germany as well. It has been only a few days and I don’t feel any different yet but fingers crossed that it will help!I got my amalgams removed with SMART protocol almost 2 years ago and have been trying to chelate since then, but I don’t tolerate it well (probably because I was/am still hypothyroid and adrenals were suffering) and I am now focusing on my hypometabolism issues. Hope you find success with the T3! And I am also interested in who your private GP that you are working with if you can message me? Thanks!
Raising t3 until optimal. Test regularly. Being undermedicated does not help. If you have issues with raising, it is all about wonky cortisol and iron. We do not treat ferritin, need a full panel to see where you stand. 4 pt saliva for cortisol levels, need to stay away from certain meds and supps (and no stress prior to testing). Your t3 is low and rt3 is way too high, and I agree with your dr (I wish mine comes up with a practical solution, lol). However, 10 is almost a starting dose and I hope he will keep on raising it until optimal. Good luck. B12 injections-if you are deficient in B2, b12 will not get into the cell. For Se and iodine, Se plasma/RBC to test and 24h loading for iodine (if need to add ro your regime, needs to be supported by salt, Se, C, Mg (and potassium), B2 and B3. Good luckAnd , do not be worried about t3, it is NORMAL for TSH to be supressed. Do not stay undermedicated tho
Hi, I take quarter of a tablet daily, it keeps me going sl day!! I will only increases when and if I need too......I feel fabulous no brain fog and I’m active enough on just the quarter any more I think it would b like rocket fuel lol, hope this helps?
It will only make a difference if that's what the problem is, the GP is doing a suck it and see and after some time she will advise you whether it's worth persevering but don't pin all of your hopes on it just yet. In my case, I found that I was suffering from a bacterial infection which seems to have been shutting down my thyroid and causing low blood oxygen, my doctor ignored all of my other problems for four years and just kept jacking up my Levothyroxine which made me ill.
T3 can reduce rtT3 but it depends on why it's needed, of course.It will readily boost SHBG though -but this is checkable if libido is affected , or important in this context.
Hi! Read the book Stop the Thyroid Madness if you can get it. I am increasing my T3 every week 5. Many find optimal labs results with 1 grain NDT ( or more- I use 1 grain ) and T3 75 or more. I am testing after 50...
I'd have liked to see your tsh t4 and T3 levels (and ranges) before you started T3. I do think you could begin to feel somewhat better in a couple of weeks but I guess it depends if your T3 was ever low.
I was T4-intolerant for decades. By intolerance, I mean that taking T4 would cause extreme anxiety and dysphoria. This was precipitated by life-long gluten intolerance, leading to gluten enteropathy. The enteropathy launched thyroid autoimmunity (Hashimoto's), leading to hypothyroid. (Highest recorded TSH was 21.) Enteropathy also scorched all nutrient levels ... and esp. protein digestion, leading to hypoproteinemia. The physical and mental symptoms ruined life for ~21 years.
The only reason I was able to get at least partway to a euthyroid state fairly early after diagnosis of gluten intolerance, was that I was on T3-only for many years. While on T3-only, I dosed myself with 12.5mcg Cytomel, 5 times per day. (Total 62.5mcg per day.) I weigh about 78kg. So far as I know, treatment with T3-only is purely trial-and-error; there is no magic recipe, since T3-only treatment is rare and most docs are scared to death of it.
I suspect I had high rT3 during part of this time. But it was only measured once.
Too-high levels of lead and mercury were diagnosed shortly after I found an ND who could diagnose gluten intolerance. (MDs had not a clue.) I suspect that high levels of heavy metals are probably typical in patients who are hypothyroid, since metabolism slows. I went onto chelation therapy with DMSA for about 9 months, to help get rid of lead & mercury.
Incidentally, I came across an article on the web a couple years ago which described a study in which lab rats were artificially induced into Alzheimer's, then treated with T4. The T4 treatment reversed Alzheimer's. Are you aware that "hypothyroid dementia" is a real diagnosis? I strongly suspect that hypothyroidism plays a role in the various types of dementia. But as I've learned from an aged (92) female friend, these $#!%!? MDs are quite cavalier about treating hypothyroid in older people. This woman is not knowledgeable about how thyroid diagnosis and treatment is done, and has not told me anything about the results of her lab tests. But she did tell me that the GP she sees is treating her with just 25mcg levothyroxine daily. Given her weight, that dose is WAY below her T4-equivalent full replacement dose. (The T4 full-replacement dose is somewhere in the range 1.5-1.7 mcg/kg body weight. It is estimated by endos that each 1mcg T3, is equivalent to 3-4mcg T4, for patients doing T3+T4 treatment.)
On T3-only, you are likely to eventually have a low TSH. Don't let doctors beat you up about this! Feeling well is MUCH more important that having a TSH which satisfies a doctor. It would be a huge improvement in treatment, if allopathic medicine dumped the TSH test, and used FT3+FT4 instead.
Just so you understand how the body's thyroid regulation system works...Taking some extra T3, will be noticed by your hypothalamus, which will instruct your pituitary to reduce TSH output (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone).
This will mean your own Thyroid gland produces less T4, T3 (and T2 and T1 and some other things i don't understand )
I don't think anyone really knows what effect this will have long term, but Greygoose's example seems to indicate that her effect was reversible.
But if TSH is very supressed , for example in true hyperthyroidism, it can often take a very long time to come back up , and it may be that once supressed it has been re-set, to a lower level than before ...However this could have as much to do with the antibodies to TSH that Graves Hyperthyroidism produces.
I don't know if the same effect would happen in someone who basically had no thyroid disease. Not much research has been done.
Just so you know that taking T3 will affect a lot of thing's , it wont just simply increase your fT3 result.
TSH also has other important roles as well as just asking thyroid for more hormone production.
It also has an effect on the conversion of inactive T4 into active T3 via deiodinase action.
I Don't know how big this effect is , but a high TSH increases conversion, and a low TSH slows it down.
So by lowering you TSH due to taking extraT3 , there will be an effect of reducing your conversion of your own T4 to T3. How big an effect i don't know.
Anyway , that is the theory of the system you are interacting with..... complicated !
All these checks and balances are your body's way of trying to maintain T3 (the important one ) at a stable level.
ie. To respond quickly when more T3 is needed urgently .
To lower T3 quickly if there is too much.
To increase overall production if there is a sustained period of not enough hormone.
And to decrease production if there is a sustained period of too much.
There are two genes that affect thyroid(T4) hormone uptake and utilization. When these are not the good combo then the problems occur.T3 is not affected by this, so is 'direct on' and thus needs careful takeup (4xdaily) to avoid surges.
This is not understood by medics who like an easier life -juggling labs and 'approved', but sub optimal, meds.
The over emphasis in Endo. clinics on diabetes is no doubt a reflection of ongoing failure.
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