Why do vitamins need to be optimal before adding liothyronine to levothyroxine?

[Zazbag]

Asking for a friend. Thanks!

[silverfox7]

Without doing that then you make no progress. Vitamins being optimal help your thyroid to work better so ask your doctor to test Vit D, B12, folate and ferritin but remember they need to be optimal, not just in range.

[Zazbag in reply to silverfox7]

I'm looking for the scientific rationale for the statement 😊

[silverfox7 in reply to Zazbag]

Surely experience, either your own or others speak for themselves. That I would have thought is the essence of joining the group, to learn from the experience of others. By virtue of the fact there are vits we can take then it suggests that having low levels isn’t good. As we are all different in out thyroid journey then as individuals we then need to work out the best dose for us or pay to get actual levels.

[Zazbag in reply to silverfox7]

I want to understand the scientific basis for the claim.

[BrynGlas]

I am no expert, but I assume that it is because that is the way that the endocrine system works best. Everythingseems to need to work together, which makes sense to me.

I suppose it is a bit like a recipe, the bread won't rise without the yeast and cakes won't rise without baking powder, nothing tastes right without salt, etc etc

If you don't add the correct levels of everything - nothing is optimal - nothing works or tastes as good as it should. I was always tweeking recipes, now I don't eat gluten, because my body seems not to appreciate my efforts and refuses to work well with it in my system, along with lots of other things too unfortunately.

But my thyroid seems to be behaving itself better, which is best for me. I take T3 too, still tweeking the T4/ T3 recipe as yet.

[pennyannie]

Hey there :

Vitamins and minerals need to be optimal for any thyroid hormone to work as effectively as without core strength being strong and solid, you will not be well anyway.

There are plenty of articles regarding ferritin needing to be over 70 : I know I'm feeling at my best when my ferritin is nearer 100 : and it's very much a question of becoming as optimal as you can for you :

Conversion of T4 into T3 can also be compromised by dieting, ageing, inflammation, depression, and physiological stress ( emotional or physical ) ;

I think one also needs to take into account any other health issues and medications that may well have a bearing on one's overall conversion.

Obviously as conversion becomes compromised and you introduce T3 it is more powerful than T4 and the body needs to be able to manage this " change in gear " .

[Zazbag]

Looking for a proper scientific explanation! Thanks though

[FancyPants54 in reply to Zazbag]

I don't know, but if I waited for my Ferritin to be 100 I'd die of old age first. I've been "working on raising Ferritin" for decades. It's just going to have to try and cope because I need that T3 help now.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Before considering adding T3 (which is much harder to manage and extremely difficult to get prescribed) it’s always best to get levothyroxine dose fine tuned and all four vitamins optimal

A) this can significantly improve conversion of Ft4 to Ft3 so that you don’t need T3

B) vitamin deficiencies causes symptoms in their own right

C) if cause of thyroid disease is autoimmune (Hashimoto’s or Graves’ disease) then frequently strictly gluten free diet helps or is essential BEFORE considering adding T3

D) lactose or dairy free may be necessary as well, or instead of gluten free

E) frequently dose of levothyroxine isn’t tweaked finely enough and often not high enough dose. Ft4 should be at least 60-70% through range, regardless of TSH

F) always get same brand of levothyroxine. Otherwise at each prescription dose is slightly different. Different brands are not bio equivalent

Nether levothyroxine or T3 will “work” if vitamin levels are deficient.

NHS only tests and treats deficiencies

But we need optimal vitamin levels ....this usually requires self supplementing to maintain optimal vitamin levels

Being under medicated on too small dose of levothyroxine leads to low stomach acid.

Low stomach acid leads to low vitamin levels

Low vitamin levels tend to lower TSH and raise Ft4, but causes poor conversion and very low Ft3

Low Ft3 tends to lower vitamin levels further

[Zazbag in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you so much, as always 😊

[Heloise in reply to Zazbag]

Hi Zazbag, science has just recently discovered the microbiome which each individual has their personal composition of flora which will determine what happens to those nutrients. A book "The Second Brain" identified the fact that the gut has a system that sends messages to the brain. Functional doctors now know that the gut "talks" to the brain 8 ways and the brain to the gut only 2 ways. The vagus nerve goes to all the organs and probably carries some of those messages. There is still so much to know about all of this but b vitamins seem to cause many of the chemical actions that take place.

"B vitamins including vitamin B1, B2 B5, and B6 play a role in cellular energy production. Vitamin B12 helps support normal blood production and vitamin B3 is involved in DNA repair and supports skin health. Vitamins B1, B2 and B6 help support the healthy functioning of the nervous system .Jan 20, 2020"

Being hypothyroid means you are not producing enough energy (ATP). This process comes through the mitochondria and there are thousands of mitochondria in every cell in your body and even more in brain cells, heart cells and the retina. Thyroid hormone is also needed by every cell in your body.

ATP is produced through Glycolysis. Mitochondria are very fragile but can be renewed through EXERCISE for one but if they are broken down it limits those cells.

This is a rough idea and there are still unknowns. I am bothered by the fact that medicine has not considered treatments that get down to the basics of how our bodies work. We should ALL consider detox treatments as the chemicals our bodies face have overwhelmed our liver and our immune system and broken us down in my nonmedical opinion.