Hi all, Ok, I had thyroid bloods taken at surgery last wednesday 18th November and whilst I have no results as yet I have received a text from surgery asking me to make an appointment to discuss my cholesterol and statins? I am presuming they have done other tests on my blood sample that I was unaware of? I was of the belief that statins are a no no for people who are hypothyroid but unsure were I read that? I know many people have bad side affects with statins and stop taking them. I feel quite anxious about it all. Anyone got any experience of this? Any advice will be gratefully received thank you.
CHOLESTEROL AND STATINS: Hi all, Ok, I had... - Thyroid UK
CHOLESTEROL AND STATINS
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DoeStewart
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Having high cholesterol is a common effect of being hypothyroid. If your hypothyroidism was treated properly your cholesterol would reduce. The NHS itself acknowledges the connection between cholesterol and hypothyroidism on this link :
nhs.uk/conditions/statins/c...
Quote :
If you have an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism), treatment may be delayed until this problem is treated. This is because having an underactive thyroid can lead to an increased cholesterol level, and treating hypothyroidism may cause your cholesterol level to decrease, without the need for statins. Statins are also more likely to cause muscle damage in people with an underactive thyroid.
And notice that muscle damage is more likely in people with hypothyroidism according to the above paragraph.
Some links on the subject of statins that you might find of interest :
1) drmalcolmkendrick.org/2012/...
2) spacedoc.com/articles/50-fa...
3) diabetes.co.uk/forum/thread...
Link 3 above is to a thread on a diabetes forum and it contains pages of links on the issue of cholesterol and statins.
4) diabetes.co.uk/forum/thread...
5) zoeharcombe.com/2015/03/wor...
6) thennt.com/nnt/statins-for-...
7) thennt.com/nnt/statins-for-...
8) thennt.com/nnt/statins-pers...
Some things for you to ponder...
9) If statins really do reduce deaths from heart disease, what would people be dying of instead? Cancer? Dementia?
10) Some of the increased risks associated with statins :
a) Heart failure
b) Cataracts
c) Muscle pain including rhabdomyolysis, which as a side effect will destroy your kidneys.
d) Dementia
e) Type 2 diabetes
Thank you so much, the NHS site is where I had seen the paragraph on hypothyroidism and cholesterol, as soon as I saw it on your reply I remembered. The muscle damage statement is very worrying too. Thank you for all the links, thats my Sunday reading. A gentleman who lived near me was put on statins and became suicidal, a complete change of character from happy go lucky to morose in a very short time. I would rather try and reduce the cholesterol myself than take prescribed medication of any kind. Thank you for your reply, very much appreciated.
I would rather try and reduce the cholesterol myself than take prescribed medication of any kind.
I wouldn't take a statin if you paid me, to be honest. I live with enough pain and brain fog already without making it worse.
My thoughts entirely, I have enough trouble coping with my miserable thyroid and all that brings with it to want to take on anything else
If you are an older person, the higher your cholesterol (statistically) the longer you live. You need it to create vitamin D and other hormones, to keep th immune system in good order. Modern research shows that it does not cause heart disease so I'd stop worrying about it and look after your general health and thyroid.
Thank you. I am 67 years old and try to keep well away from the Drs to be honest as the are fixated by numbers and not symptoms and of course probably get paid for pushing people onto different medications, whatever is flavour of the month at the time.
We cannot rely upon GPs, nor any other medically trained person re a dysfunctional thyroid gland as they appear not to know much more than looking at a TSH result and if it 'somewhere' within the range believe we're on a sufficient dose. We need a TSH of 1 or lower with Free T4 and Free T3 in the upper part of the ranges. The latter two are rarely tested by GPs.
shawsAdministrator
I am not medically qualified but as our cholesterol level is connected to the Thyroid Gland which rises when the gland is struggling to provide thyroid hormones.
Cholesterol level will drop as thyroid hormone replacement is gradually increased. Why don't the medical professionals know of this? Statins? No.
Keep in mind I am not medically qualified but I wouldn't take statins as a higher cholesterol is a clinical symptom of hypo.
They are so smart to give medication for a clinical symptom rather than making sure the patient has a sufficient dose of whatever replacements relieves their symptoms.
From the following link:-
"If you have an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism), treatment may be delayed until this problem is treated. This is because having an underactive thyroid can lead to an increased cholesterol level, and treating hypothyroidism may cause your cholesterol level to decrease, without the need for statins. Statins are also more likely to cause muscle damage in people with an underactive thyroid.
Read more about the side effects of statins.
nhs.uk/conditions/statins/c...
Thank you Shaws, yes I have just been reminded about that NHS statement to do with hypothyroidism and statins/ cholesterol. You are right as usual, the GP would rather give me statins than look at my thyroid medication. As long as my TSH is suitable then all is fine. As I have had 7/8ths thyroid removed over 30 years ago I doubt very much the remaining 1/8th is alive and kicking. I take 100mg Levo and have added my own bit NDT to it to try and improve things. No private testing for me this year as I just don't get on with the lancet blood draw, I normally have a nurse to draw the blood but the way things are this is a no no.
I do hope that you have continued improvement. Why do doctors prescribe statins that could cause us to have other problems? I think that it is because they are unaware and shouldn't be if it can harm us.
Thank you so much for your kindness. I will keep helping myself as much as I can. Once I have my results tomorrow I will know more ( except T3 of course 🙄 ) round and round on the merry go round we go.
It's no wonder we are stressed, when we expect ALL doctors to know exactly how to treat patients who have a problem with their thyroid gland and it comes as a huge shock when we find out they know nothing more than the TSH and/or T4.
They are so poorly trained.
Before blood tests and levothyroxine were introduced, we were diagnosed solely upon our clinical symptoms. NHS now pays fortunes for tests whereas in the past the medical professionals were taught all symptoms and patients were given NDT (natural dessicated thyroid hormones) with small increases until all symptoms relieved.
Is it not surprising that we're worse off today due to doctors being poorly trained and seem to know next to nothing about dysfunctional thyroid glands, except TSH and T4. They have also been told not to prescribe T3 as the price has escalated.
Also, despite NDTs (natural dessicated thyroid hormones) - made from animals' thyroid glands - saving lives from 1892 onwards, the 'specialists' have withdrawn this from being prescribed in the UK. It contains all of the hormones a healthy gland would do but they told lies in order to get it withdrawn. What principals do these people have? It would appear that they have chosen a profession that 'heals' but not in the case of anything to do with a dysfunctional thyroid gland.
They have removed the very original replacement i.e. NDT - made from animals' thyroid glands so contain all of the hormones a healthy gland would do. Then they wont prescribe T3 as it is costly, so all that is left is T4 and many on this forum cannot recover upon it. Those who do fine will not be searching the internet for advice.
First of all they removed T3, due to exorbitant cost - it could be sourced elsewhere more cheaply
Then removed NDTs leaving many patients in a panic. The professionals don't care. They can go to sleep peacefully each night, whilst their patients cannot.
If you want to read my journey on how I got diagnosed, you can click on my name and it will take you to another page. If you haven't put your history, you can also do this on your personal page.
The tsh/cholesterol correlation does not apply to everyone. The operative words in the NHS treatment protocol for cholesterol treatment for hypothyroid people are "can", "might" and "may". The protocol is that thyroid issues are to be addressed before treatment for high cholesterol is initiated. Not happy at the prospect of being prescribed statins, I collated all my levels, only to find that, after a brief downward blip, my cholesterol levels had actually risen, although my thyroid levels had optimised. This is still the situation for me, all thyroid levels good, but cholesterol high. Having previously been anti-statins, I have found that the more you research the subject, the more studies you find to back whichever view you take. Nothing is definitive, and we are all different, so should be allowed to have differing views on this subject, as on others.
Thank you for this point of view. Can I ask if you now take statins and if so how do you get on with them.
The point of view that the NHS are dealing with cholesterol and statins in a balanced way, because of the wording 'can, might, and may be affected by hypothyroidism' would be fine if patients reported every effort had been made to optimise thyroid replacement before they were offered statins , but this post , and many others on here indicate that patients are being offered statins before proper discussion of thyroid hormone optimisation has taken place . You report your thyroid levels as 'optimised' and 'good', but in some people who did not suffer much from hypothyroid symptoms before diagnosis of hypothyroidism , and who then respond well to Levothyroxine with no problems, maybe there is not a true understanding of what 'optimised thyroid' actually is for those of us who do have a much more problematic journey with hypothyroidism and Levothyroxine.
A patient who did not suffer many problems before diagnosis might well say that their thyroid results were good or optimal, going by the lab reference ranges, but those ranges leave many with thyroid symptoms that are then attributed to 'something else' by GP's
Without knowing your history, symptoms , or diagnosis , or results, it is perhaps difficult for anyone to know that your thyroid results are indeed optimal, or that your high cholesterol would not have improved with better thyroid replacement.
Some years ago my doctor put me on statins but I had a bad reaction to them. So I asked a doctor friend who was also a naturopath, for any alternatives in the natural world. He recommended Red Sterol, one tablet twice daily. At the time my cholesterol ranged between 6.8 and 7.0, after taking Red Sterol my blood tests showed a reduction to 5.4 and they have remained at this ever since. He also recommended that I take Omega 3 and Omega 6 with it.
Do bear in mind that the development of statins was based on some of these "natural" products and the major active constituent of red yeast rice extract is lovastatin. To a considerable extent, taking products based on red yeast rice extract isn't avoiding statins!
One of the problems with at least some of these products is poor control of potency.
Thanks for that, very interesting. So, some natural products have some similar ingredients in them to statins but are they without the side affects of prescribed statins?
The side effects would appear broadly similar to pharmaceutical statins:
Side Effects
Side effects of red yeast rice are rare but can include:
Headache
Stomachache or bloating
Gas
Dizziness
Heartburn
Muscle aches and weakness. This can lead to a rare but serious condition called rhabdomyolysis. Stop taking red yeast rice immediately and call your doctor
pennstatehershey.adam.com/c...
Without much more research, we cannot really have much of an idea as to whether the other constituents of red yeast rice extracts make a difference to side effects or its main intended action - or not.
Blimey, bot much difference there then?
Thank you for your reply, I had wondered about the sterols. Thanks for that information, I will look into those products.
I'm also on 100 mcg Levo, originally diagnosed as type 2 diabetes and low thyroid in late 2012. Soon after I was out in 20 mg Simvastatin and got strange side effects in my legs when exercising - a burning feeling (without watching a Jane Fonda video!) - & tired aches in muscles after walking. GP listened and changed to Simvastatin (it isn't as effective and is water soluble but not lipid soluble so may have less/fewer side effects) and side effects disappeared. Convinced they were not psychological! Currently on 10 mg Simvastatin with what I think is low cholesterol (total c. 3.1 yet no sign of GP stopping it - I think the practise gets bonus for the % of patients they have on Statins!)
Thank you for reply, totally agree that the practice gets paid for having you on certain meds, why would they take you off and stop the cash cow.
When we're on the correct dose of thyroid hormones, high cholesterol should reduce without statins.
Cholesterol is contained in each of your body’s cells. Your body uses it to make hormones and substances that help you digest food.
Cholesterol also circulates through your blood. It travels in the bloodstream in two types of packages, called lipoproteins:
High-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol is good for your heart. It helps remove cholesterol from your body and protects against heart disease.
Low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol is bad for your heart. If LDL cholesterol levels are too high, the cholesterol can clog arteries and contribute to heart disease, heart attacks, and strokes.
Shaws you are a mine of information - thank you. I read your journey, my goodness you have certainly been let down by the medical profession., its very worrying that things haven't improved with the NHS but become worse. I'm so glad you are now well but its so wrong that you should have to pay for your T3 when it could be supplied for you if the NHS only got its act together and sourced it cheaply.
"Should" reduce foes not mean the same as "will". Not everyone's high cholesterol levels will reduce in line with thyroid levels improving. Mine didn't, and I doubt I'm the only one. Conversely, my partner had excellent cholesterol levels even when his thyroid levels were abysmal, so no definite correlation can be made, just a general observation of something that can be a possibility, which is exactly the NHS viewpoint.
I've read most of the many comments which largely rubbish medics - and I agree! I also agree with treating the underlying condition which medics can't grasp. The main problem you may encounter is pressure from those medics
My mum's cholestrol has risen to 7.4 nmol/l in the past 3y. Her GP/nurse has been trying to force statins on her and so has her kidney "specialist"! He has largely ignored her kidney disease which is one of 3 possible reasons for the cholestrol rise. Thyroid and coming off HRT are the 2 others we've considered but they don't want to know. We are having to do DIY medical diagnosis and treatment, as usual
The main problem you may encounter is pressure from those medics
I tend to avoid that pressure by saying I don't want my cholesterol measured. Doctors aren't allowed to do tests without permission from the patient. I haven't had my cholesterol measured by the NHS for over 6 years. I've had it done privately, so I know it's a lot higher than it was when the NHS last saw it, but I tend to ignore it.
The only measurement I worry about (in cholesterol terms) is my triglycerides which ideally I want to keep as low as possible, and preferably under 1. (I have limited success though.)
I understand your strategy (but not sure if we can get triglycerides tested without full cholestrol?). But, since I believe cholestrol changes are largely a sign of other conditions which we want to control/improve eg CKD or thyroid, it can also be a useful, second measure to check if you are improving those conditions.
Good option to keep medics off your back though!
I get my cholesterol and triglycerides tested privately about every 12 - 18 months. As you say, they always get tested together, so I would never agree to the NHS testing them.
I avoid doctors as much as I can unless the problem I want to see them about is actually visible or is easily tested for.
I certainly agree with avoiding medics! We even follow the same strategy for our dog and vets!! The secret to better health imo.
We also follow this strategy with our Dog, keep away unless really necessary
It’s going to be very interesting to see what happens if we end up having our Covid vaccinations done by our local vet. Will I be able to change my name to ‘Fido’ and be listed as a new patient? I used to feel my cat got much better treatment than I did. On the other hand my doctor never looks at me and says ‘well just put you on the scales’ like the vet did with my cat 😉
Haha our dog gets much better treatment at the vets than we do at the surgery, much better bedside manner as well. A friend is a receptionist at another GP practice and has been told she will get a bit of training and then help to give the vaccine once available. No question of "would you want to" - just "you will" , oh and also be prepared to work late nights and weekends. ?
Oh gosh! What a thought. I’d like to think the person giving me mine had some sort of experience in giving injections. Although there’s a phlebotomist at our practice - she does injections too - who is really brutal I’d much rather the local vet did it. Or our postman - or one of the bin men or the person on the checkout at Tesco - the possibilities are endless eh!
Hahaha - yes I'll ask for the one with some experience or I may as well do it myself
😂😂🤣🤣😂😂 DIY 🤣🤣
To avoid the ham fisted phlebotomist I used to go to the phlebotomy dept at our local hospital - they are amazingly good - but I don’t think that will be an option for a very long time, besides it involved sitting in a tiny room with a very busy but fast moving queue so no way I’d go there.
No you won't be going there for a while then, anything with more than 2 people is a no no. Looks like your stuck with the ham fisted phlebotomist 🙄
Sadly, yes. Unless I can be allocated the vet over the road 😉
Good Luck
My cholesterol was rising year on year and my GP kept hassling me to take statins. Then I discovered through a private blood test that my FT3 was only 5% within the range. Two incremental increases in T4 and 6 months later, and my cholesterol has fallen from 6.4 to 4.9.
Statins are particularly bad for hypothyroid folk. I wouldn't take them.....the risk of side effects is too great. Try and get your FT3 at optimal level ie in the top part of the range.
How did you get your GP to increase your Levo? When I have my thyroid tests done through surgery they only do T4 if the TSH is under range which mine always is . I then get a call telling me to reduce my Levo which I decline. My Dr only looks at TSH so I will never get an increase. When I have private testing done the Dr isnt interested in seeing them and ignores me when I try and discuss T3.
I would have the same problem with GP wanting to dose by TSH only, but I take 500mcg Metformin twice a day for diabetes. Metformin acts upon the pituitary/hypothalamus axis and makes TSH appear suppressed. The lab then tests FT3 because my TSH is always about 0.01. Only 1 GP at the practice seems to know about Metformin's affect though and I have had massive arguments in the past when the useless GPs have tried to REDUCE my T4, based on my suppressed-looking TSH.
The one "good" GP allowed me an increase in levo under the guise of reducing my cholesterol and once my FT3 level was in the top quarter of the range, and my cholesterol was down to 4.9, he had the good grace to admit that I was right all along.
I am lucky that there is one good GP who listens and knows the importance of optimal FT3 levels. If ever he goes, I think I would be stuffed.
Goodness that is brilliant, thank goodness you have someone who understands and is in your corner. Nobody at my surgery thinks along those lines, all TSH obsessed.
Hi grumpyoid, can I ask what were your Tsh & T4 levels were when your t3 was low, , and if they were ok and in range, what increase was made to your medication, how did it impact on your thyroxine dosage, as mine are in good range at moment Tsh being suppressed near enough at 0.03 and T4 at 21.1 in highest range, if i increased my thyroxine i no I would feel hypo, I adjust mine to how I feel now as had many years of knowing my symptoms alerts. Just wondering if t3 is affecting my cholesterol as they want to put me in statins as it’s now 6.1 & been creaping up every year now, my hubby’s too, I have a healthy diet eating good fats so I can only blame family history for us both, & having hypothyroidism and lack of exercise in my part now due to my other ongoing health problems, Kindest regards x
Hi Nat 107,when I was on 100 mcg levo, my TSH was 0.05, my FT4 was 13 (range 8-21) and my FT3 was 3.9 (rnage 3.8- 6.0).
My TSH always appears suppressed because I take 500 mcg Metformin twice a day which works along the pituitary/hypothalamus axis and makes it look that way. So in my case, it's ignored.
As you can see, my FT3 was at rock bottom within the range and FT4 not even half way.
Two incremental increases in levo improved my FT4 and FT3 and with my FT3 now in the top quarter, my cholesterol is now back to 4.9.
If your FT3 isn't optimal I believe that yes, it could very well be affecting your cholesterol.
I got a call from the GP 3 years ago as TSH was over 5 to come in. He increased levo from 75 to 100 and asked for tsh retest in 8 weeks. He was then concerned as tsh was 0.9. He took pulse (with oximeter finger device) in case it was too high. Pulse was 55 so I did comment "so no white coat syndrome today" and got a smile, "apparently not" and have been on 100 mcg since and feeling better as a result! Sounds like I've been lucky in choice kf GP.
Wow that sounds like a good GP, interested in how your feeling rather than just numbers. Wish there were more like that.
Can I ask Bob if you are a man? Just wondering because I have a sneaking feeling that doctors take their male patients more seriously.
Yes I can confirm I'm a man. Apparently it is me to blame for having two sons and no daughters and 3 grandsons and no granddaughters!! I've always got on well with my Drs whether male of female.
I’ve always got on fairly ok with my doctors although our surgery is now part of a large group, has become very impersonal and it’s pretty much impossible to see a doctor face to face which is sad because our used to be a wonderful practice but now all the original doctors have retired.
From what I’ve seen on here it seems to be mostly women who have problems with doctors and consultants. I always get the impression that male doctors in particular think women who are hypo want levothyroxine simply to help them lose weight which isn’t always true. I was lucky I was extremely hyper and lost three stones so wanting my thyroid treated to lose weight was never an issue.
On the other hand I was told be a female doctor a couple of months before having a hyper meltdown with what turned out to be Graves that I was ‘needing my holiday’. She didn’t add ‘dear’ that was implied. I was actually very ill yet she leaned back in her chair with the end of her pen in her mouth, looked at me as I was some weird sort of specimen - definitely hypochondriac (my thyroid symptom were very varied) and said I was needing my holiday.
I was not impressed and I’ve since formed the opinion that as far as a lot of doctors are concerned there are three stages of women.
Too young to have anything serious wrong with them - Young woman in the paper only this week had been denied a smear test because she was too young and it was only the Jade Goody effect that made her want one - she died age 23 with cervical cancer,
second stage is menopausal - women of that age are a bit unreasonable any hypochondriac,
third stage is you’re too old to bother about.
Sad and very cynical of me - my husband says I’m cynical and I’m not sure he means it as a compliment - but the longer you use HU and the more groups you belong to then that’s pretty much how it looks.
My husband is one of two boys, we also have two boys and yes, it’s down to the males of the family although saying that my brother in law has three girls before he finally had a boy.
I was given statins some years ago. I knew nothing about the side effects and took them without worrying. We went on holiday the weekend I started and within a few days I could barely walk. There was a bus stop across the road from the campsite we were staying in and I could barely walk to it - normally we would have walked all the into the town and back. Not only did my legs hurt but I felt really depressed, like I wanted to curl up in a corner and shut my eyes, it was very odd. My husband said to stop taking them but I felt I had been told to take them so I carried on, then he said to cut back and take one every two days which eventually I did, by the time we came home three weeks later I had stopped altogether.
When I got home I told the locus doctor I saw that I wanted to stop them. She said I could try a more expensive type - I had Simvastatin - but I said no. She suggested using Benecol type products which I did every now and again but I discovered that when I developed Graves’ disease my cholesterol was very low, then when I went back to normal and my TSH began to rise my cholesterol rise with it. I pointed that out to my doctor who smiled sweetly and said yes but wasn’t prepared to do anything to lower my TSH.
I’ve since investigated and found the link between underactive thyroid, high cholesterol, overactive thyroid, low cholesterol. Can’t say I was impressed that my GP would rather feed me statins than do something about my thyroid.
Its probably all down to how much money the surgery get payed for giving out certain medicines . I remember at one time the Drs were trying to put children on inhalers, upping the number of asthma sufferers, of course they were being paid huge amounts to do so. Its probably the same with statins - and antidepressants ? Instead of finding out whats actually wrong with the patient they just dole out another tablet. I have told the Drs I won't be making an appointment to speak about statins because I won't be taking them, no point wasting their time and mine.
PS I usually describe by cynicism as healthy scepticism. Think positive!
😊
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