I just need some advice please. I have Hashimoto's and Pernicious anemia and have 8 weekly b12 injections. I have begged my Doctor for 6 weekly injections as I have neurological symptoms still and he says I won't benefit. My thyroid is very well controlled. I have spent a day in A and E on Sunday with a very fast heart rate that was missing beats and was on a heart monitor and an had 2 ECG's. I had a blood test for my lungs which came back as abnormal and they thought I had a blood clot on my lungs and had a CT scan on Monday. Thank goodness I don't have a blood clot but still feel awful with fast heart rate and missing beats, so I was asked to go up to the Ambulatory Care Unit to speak to a consultant. Stupid me and my husband thought I was going to get listened to and put on 6 weekly b12 injections. Instead I was greeted by a Nurse consultant who told me that my thyroid is over active and that's what is causing my fast heart rate. She said my T4 was 25.4 and that was abnormal and I would need to lower my medication. I said I refused and had done before and become really ill because of it. I asked what my TSH was and she said she hadn't written that down. I made her check and it was 0.43. I told her that my TSH and T4 were normal for me and maybe it was my Pernicious Anemia making my heart work faster as I needed more frequent B12 injections. She knew nothing about the thyroid or Pernicious Anemia and said it was between me and my Doctor if he would give me 6 weekly injections. She wasn't happy that I knew what I was talking about. I have checked the ranges for TSH and T4 on my records when I got back and I have been 0.017 before for my TSH and not felt like this and always sat at the top range of T4. Thanks to this group I was able to put my point across and know what my levels are. She did advise me to complain to the Practice manager about my B12 injections. Can someone please confirm the ranges for TSH and T4 now as they keep changing and she seemed to be working from ranges from 2 years ago.
T4 levels changing and B12: I just need some... - Thyroid UK
T4 levels changing and B12
What vitamin supplements are you currently taking?
As you have B12 injections it’s recommended on here to also take a daily vitamin B complex. Helps keep all B vitamins in balance and may help maintain B12 levels between injections
Many Hashimoto’s patients have MTHFR gene variation and can have trouble processing folic acid.
thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...
Supplementing a good quality daily vitamin B complex, one with folate in not folic acid may be beneficial.
chriskresser.com/folate-vs-...
B vitamins best taken after breakfast
Igennus Super B is good quality and cheap vitamin B complex. Contains folate. Full dose is two tablets per day. Many/most people may only need one tablet per day. Certainly only start on one per day (or even half tablet per day for first couple of weeks)
Or Thorne Basic B or jarrow B-right are other options that contain folate, but both are large capsules
If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before any blood tests, as biotin can falsely affect test results
endo.confex.com/endo/2016en...
endocrinenews.endocrine.org...
List of private testing options
thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...
Medichecks Thyroid plus ultra vitamin (doesn’t include folate)
medichecks.com/products/thy...
Thyroid plus vitamins including folate (private blood draw required)
medichecks.com/products/thy...
Medichecks often have special offers, if order on Thursdays
Thriva Thyroid plus vitamins
Blue Horizon Thyroid Premium Gold includes vitamins
bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...
Possibly cheapest option for getting all tested via DIY finger prick test
TSH, FT4 and FT3
£29 (via NHS private service ) and 10% off if go on thyroid uk for code
thyroiduk.org/getting-a-dia...
monitormyhealth.org.uk/thyr...
And
Medichecks - JUST vitamin testing including folate - DIY finger prick test
medichecks.com/products/nut...
I don't take any supplements only Calcichew vitamin D three times a day. I thought that because I can't absorb B12 from my body and have injections that it wouldn't benefit me taking supplements
Do you have PA or low B12 due to low stomach acid?
Vitamin B complex helps keep all B vitamins in balance
Many Hashimoto’s patients have low B1 (thiamine) as well as low folate
verywellhealth.com/hashimot...
thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...
I have Pernicious anemia
So you might not absorb any of the B12 in a vitamin B complex .....or you might absorb a little
But you would absorb the other B vitamins
Have you tried sublingual B12 or B12 mouth spray? (As a boost...not to replace injections )
I have had a result this morning and my Doctor has agreed to 6 weekly injections. I just need to get my medical records corrected now as the Hematologist said I have type 3 autoimmune Polyglandular disease. It lists autoimmune thyroid and pernicious anemia
Ranges on tests vary from lab to lab
Hi Rocky
You may be having heart palpitations because your magnesium levels are low try taking 400 to 600 mg of magnesium glycinate or magnesium chloride oil this also helps to stop clotting and improve t4 to t3 conversion
TSH should be 0.5 to 1.5 ideally min max 0.2 to 4.5
Your t4 assuming you meant free t4 9 to 21 so 25.4 is high likely causing palpitations magnesium might reduce the likely hood of this
You do not mention the free t3 levels if these are low you will not feel well should be about 6 range 2.4 to 6.0
ft3 is 5 times more effective than ft4 It’s the ft3 that does the work
Sounds like this will be low magnesium can improve the conversion or t3 medication may be required
Ask your GP to measure TSH T4 T3 FT4 FT3 and RT
Not sure why you are insisting on 6 weekly injection for B12
Better to self medicate with liver which is high in B12 or take
Better You Boost B12 which is absorbed sublingually via the mouth tissue directly into the blood stream. Avoiding the convoluted absorption via the digestive track which requires high Stomach acid and intrinsic factor which can go wrong.
Better to avoid the inconvenience of the injections and get your B12 daily
I have always been top of the range for my free T4 and not had symptoms like this so I know it's my Pernicious anemia. I can't absorb b12 from food or liver as I have the intrinsic factor so b12 tablets will not help. I need to have b12 injections
But may still need vitamin B complex as well...for the other B vitamins
I will definitely look into getting some of those too. Thanks
Hi Rocky
I never suggested B12 tablets it was a b12 sublingual spray sprayed into the mouth the b12 is absorbed through the tongue and mouth tissues straight into the blood stream just exactly the same as the injections . This would let you do the 8 weekly injections without risking the pernicious anemia or even replace them.
Are you aware that there is also a link between vitamin B12 deficiency and thyroid disorders. Hypothyroidism can lead to low B12 as it can cause digestive issues that hinder the body's absorption of the b12
You do not say what your ft3 is this could be above the limit of 6 with a ft4 of 25.4 causing palpitations remember is the ft3 that cuts it
Ok I didn't realise about the spray as we get so much information to take in it gets confusing. I will definitely look in to that too. As far as I know my T3 wasn't tested, but I can check the results online on my Patient access. What does it mean if my T3 is not in the correct range?
HI Rocky
Just to recap ft3 is 5 times more effective than ft4
so ft3 is a more critical measurement
But they are all important to know for the correct management of hypothyroidism
It is not enough to know the ft4 or tt4
This is because ft4 is converted to ft3
In some people with hypothyroidism this conversion is poor and others it is normal
But other people with hypothyroidism it is the ft4 production that is at fault
Your ft4 looks good
But we do not know the ft3 level ideally this wants to be close to 6
Let’s suppose it really low at 3 this could affect your b12 absorption and could be the reason why you are insisting on the ft4 being so high so that you feel ok
There may be other reason for the poor b12 absorption
Magnesium plays a roll in this ft4 to ft3 conversion
If for some reason the conversion rate improves then the ft3 goes shooting up above 6 causing palpitations
Next time you get palpitations might be an idea to get bloods taken at that moment for thyroid and b12 levels and for homocysteine and MMA
I know you said you had bloods taken for the TSH and ft4 but I’m not sure if this was taken at the moment just to eliminate one or the other
There are other reasons for high heart rates
Ask your GP to measure TSH T4 T3 FT4 FT3 and RT
You might need to take magnesium supplements to improve the conversion and then reduce the Levothyroxine intake or add T3 as well if no improvement in ft3
Or change to
NDT
Natural Desiccated Thyroid
High TSH causes?
How long before the TSH normalises after going off NDT and back on T4 only...?
High tsh but high T4. Low B12
Low T4 and b12
T4 and TSH levels
