How fast ft4 and ft3 can change

[Justiina]

So I have understood TSH is the slowest to change, but how about ft4 and ft3 in hashimoto hyperswing? So if they drop then TSH follows behind far later?

Just wondering while waiting referral to more tests as I had my worst very classic hyper symptoms on December/January, now slowly passing ,but TSH was 0.04 with midrange ft4. As I have had hypo phase and borderline like high TPOab in my past this would fit with hashimoto hyper swing.

I don't expect anyone being able to know what happened in my case as I haven't yet have all tests ,but just wondering if in theory I just got tested a bit too late to caught the highest numbers.

Now I just start to feel worn out after very hideous December and January.

[greygoose]

It wouldn't be a Hashi's 'hyper' swing with a mid-range FT4, no matter what the TSH.

[Justiina in reply to greygoose]

No, question was if the TSH is the slowest to react , how fast ft4 and ft3 change if it was hashimoto hyper swing. Can TSH remain low after the swing?

To be more correct I got tested this week being symptomatic on December.

[greygoose in reply to Justiina]

Yes, it can. But, you can't put a time on it because every swing will be different, and different for every person.

[Justiina in reply to greygoose]

Naturally! I know as we all are individuals and it differs, just that in theory its possible.

I am waiting for appointment to specialist just thinking could that have been that hyper swing , but naturally need more tests to rule out T3 toxicosis tho I am slowly getting less symptomatic so I assume the worst is over for now.

How about antibodies? How long they stick in the system , should I rush the referral to tests?

[greygoose in reply to Justiina]

I'm afraid I can't answer that question - I'd be surprised if anybody could.

[Justiina in reply to greygoose]

Yeah, I understand that could be unknown.

If only I had got myself tested when most symptomatic but I missed all classic symptoms of hyper. Well life is b**** and then you marry one.

Just trying to figure out should I rush things and pay more tests instead waiting. Hopefully my skilled functional doctor knows what to do, unfortunately he is busy with loads of desperate thyroid patients and authorities trying to stop him to treat thyroid issues because of the "super deadly world's most dangerous T3".

[greygoose in reply to Justiina]

Well, if it's any consolation, I never had any hyper symptoms.

[Justiina in reply to greygoose]

Yeah well I had more than one typical symptom 😆

But my nurse kept telling it's just MS I seem to have. Diagnosed last year and called very mild. I have not had any other MS related symptoms but optic neuritis which resolved fast.

My nurse said heat intolerance is MS when I said I am sweating. And I rarely sweat , had to turn of heat and open windows.

Racing heart , oh thats MS.

Shortness of breath , just MS.

Extremely sore and weak quadriceps, just MS.

Loose stomach, just MS.

Anxiety, just MS.

But I started to think, how come mild MS suddenly turns into this.

Then I decided to get tested.

[greygoose in reply to Justiina]

That is just so typical! They latch on to one little thing and blame everything on it, and never look for the real cause. That makes me so mad!

[Justiina in reply to greygoose]

Exactly when half of the symptoms don't actually match MS 😆

When I called my nurse again and told her something wrong with thyroid values as TSH is very low she went quiet and then said oh shit.

She has had thyroidectomy and struggles with levo now. So she knows about thyroid.

[greygoose in reply to Justiina]

What is wrong with a very low TSH? It tells you nothing. What was the FT3? I'm not sure she does know much about thyroid - she obviously doesn't know about hypo symptoms!

[Justiina in reply to greygoose]

No, she understood that what I complained about was more likely something else than MS as my TSH was 0.04 and I am not medicated.

I paid for TSH and ft4 but not ft3 not antibodies. And ft4 was 15.3(10-21)

So the problem is they did not test me when I was most symptomatic so now we don't know what my ft3 is to see is it low, normal or high possibly T3 toxicosis. But the low TSH was alerting as she know I had hypo phase two years but not medicated. So in any case the low TSH was indicator of something else going on and she took me seriously as it could be NTI.

[greygoose in reply to Justiina]

What's NTI?

[Justiina in reply to greygoose]

Isn't it called NTI non thyroid illness for hospitalised patients with something serious? I might be wrong but the condition where thyroid levels are very low because of other illness which resolves by itself.

[greygoose in reply to Justiina]

Oh, yes, of course! Silly me! But, how could it be that if you think your FT3 is high enough to cause thyrotoxicosis. You can't have both.

[Justiina in reply to greygoose]

No, of course I could not have both but generally speaking it was oh shit moment for as she did not believe me two months ago. Instead they kept pressuring me to take MS meds saying it COULD help with shortness of breath , palpitations and general weakness. I categorically refused as I had that gut feeling it isn't right.

So she realised she should have taken me seriously back then. Now we can just guess what it was until more tests which might not even tell anything anymore .I am slowly improving now, can climb up stairs without huffing and puffing and heart rate doesn't rise sky high. Of course I am not well yet, very worn out but not overly wired any more.

I wish I had paid for ft3 as well so would be more wiser now 😄

[greygoose in reply to Justiina]

Yes, always a good idea to get the FT3 done. You don't know anything for certain without it.

[Justiina in reply to greygoose]

Exactly, that was my mistake. But I got gastro panel test to see if I have gastritis and to find out my stomach acid levels and am I not absorbing nutrients. As it happens while I had hyper symptoms I had increased appetite or more increased need of energy and was losing weight. Not much but a bit despite eating. Wasn't vomiting nor had diarrhoea that bad just a bit more frequent bowel movements so gastro panel felt more reasonable 😄

Gastro panel cost 200 euros so another 80 euros for ft3 felt painful....

Lesson learned!

[greygoose in reply to Justiina]

Good lord! That's a lot of money.

[Justiina in reply to greygoose]

Yeah but public healthcare fails to do these. I have asked so many times to figure out why I have so much troubles like B12 deficiency. I have injections now but I fear they take then away as there is no diagnosed disease , only low B12 and high hcyst before injections.

Same with thyroid , have asked to get tested because of my past with hypo.

Same with ferritin. Same with vitamin D.

Plus I have had low leukocytes for a while now, not investigated as they (barely) reach the lowest range so they could force me to take ms meds that can reduce white cells even more. Apparently it's not infection as other inflammation markers are perfect but I did not have low leukocytes when young.

I am in difficult situation having to pay so much by myself.

I feared they only care about MS and that's what happened, nothing else worries them.

[greygoose in reply to Justiina]

How can they force you to take a medication you don't want?

[Justiina in reply to greygoose]

Well they say it's optional, don't have to BUT if I don't take it MS will destroy me next week. And I am like what? First you say it's very mild form of MS as I am 40 and have not had other symptoms but optic neuritis. And next you say it's not mild and I will get paralyzed soon if I don't take the meds?

So yes they keep pressuring me and it's not very discreet. I am getting bored of it as whatever I say or ask about my health they respond by asking am I taking the MS meds 😄

So it is getting very ridiculous.

[greygoose in reply to Justiina]

Try lying and see what they say then.

[Justiina in reply to greygoose]

One more question about swinging between hypo and hyper.

For some the change is more dramatic but is it possible you have these swings a bit milder during the years.

Like you believe you fell ill very young, did you bounce back between bad periods until diagnosed? I know you said you did not feel hyper but the hypo periods?

[greygoose in reply to Justiina]

Oh, I felt very hypo most of the time. Unable to lose weight, terrible hair, terrible periods - heavy, painful - periods of depression. But, in what I now believe to be my 'hyper' swings, all of that went away! Lost weight, hair grew, etc. But, I didn't have many of them.

But, the swings will get milder the less thyroid there is to attack. Until the thyroid is quite dead, and then they will stop.