How much Metavive compared to thyroxine should ... - Thyroid UK

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How much Metavive compared to thyroxine should I take.

Mselk profile image

I’ve finally come up as Hypo on the charts having suffered symptomatically for years. My doctor prescribed me 25mg of thyroxine a day to start with. What would be the equivalent amount of Metavive? Is there a risk starting of higher? I’m so done with my symptoms. TIA

Any other relevant advice very welcome x

27 Replies
RedApple profile image
RedAppleAdministrator

Mselk, What were your blood results that finally got you the diagnosis and prescription for 25mcg levo?

And what is your reason for taking Metavive instead of the prescribed levo?

Mselk profile image
Mselk in reply to RedApple

t4 11.3

t3 3.6

tsh 6.7

i guess intrinsically tends to steer away from synthetic meds...

haven’t taken any thyroxine yet...

greygoose profile image
greygoose in reply to Mselk

Sorry, but that is illogical. There's nothing wrong with synthetic hormone. It exactly replicates the hormone your body makes. It you reject levo and go straight to Metavive - which will be very difficult anyway, given that we don't know how much hormone is in it - you will lose out on a lot of vital information about your body, and how it reacts to thyroid hormone. You won't know how well your convert, for example. And, for all you know, you might do very well on levo. A lot of people do.

Can I ask you how old you are? 25 mcg is a very low dose to start on, and might give you a false idea of the efficacy of levo. Usually one starts on 50 mcg, unless very old or with a heart condition. Plus, although it's very difficult to tell without the ranges, your Frees appear very low, so starting on 25 mcg would just prolong the agony.

Mselk profile image
Mselk in reply to greygoose

hi grey goose, thanks for your time- I’m 44.

Mselk profile image
Mselk in reply to greygoose

i’m also concerned about the potential side effects of bone thinning

helvella profile image
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Mselk

Do you have a particular reason to worry about bone thinning? Or is it just something that you have read, or has been said to you?

I think you need to appreciate that inadequate thyroid hormone can, and does, negatively affect our bones. But not only bones, also heart, kidneys, connective tissue, eyes, nerves, ... Everything.

To a large extent, bone thinning issues have been reported in hyperthyroidism - often very serious cases. This idea has then been mis-applied to pretty much anyone on thyroid hormone medication - with little to no evidence.

Mselk profile image
Mselk in reply to helvella

i’m interested why you are so keen on me taking levo? i generally have reacted to meds in the past and feel reluctant to take it. maybe it’s not logical but i also know my body and i’m ridiculously sensitive , never even take pain killers, was ill for 2 weeks just from taking a worm pill...my q was about metavive dosage as i feel like i’d like to take this out until i can get to a functional doctor.

helvella profile image
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Mselk

I really don't care whether you take Metavive, levothyroxine or anything else. But I am concerned at the fact that you appear to be hypothyroid and not taking any form of thyroid hormone medication.

That is why my response referred to "thyroid hormone" and not a specific substance.

You have to make your own decision but I wouldn't want you to do that on the basis of incorrect information.

(My problem with Metavive is very much the same as yours. Neither of us really know how much hormone there is in it. Therefore, dosing is a problem.)

Mselk profile image
Mselk in reply to helvella

ok thanks for your clarity. sadly i have had low but undiagnosed thyroid for a good 20 yrs

RedApple profile image
RedAppleAdministrator in reply to Mselk

As others have said, there is no declared hormone content in Metavive, so no-one can tell you what the equivalence to prescription levothyroxine is.

Maybe the vendor/s of Metavive can offer the help you are asking for, but if not, and you want to pursue this avenue rather than taking levothyroxine, then you will just have to go by trial and error.

greygoose profile image
greygoose in reply to Mselk

So, you think that it's the fact that levo is synthetic that causes bone thinning? Or the thyroid hormone itself? Because if it's the thyroid hormone itself, then the effect of taking Metavive would be exactly the same.

However, as helvella has said, it's far more dangerous to have low thyroid hormone. Also low nutrients, which is often a symptom of hypothyroidism.

SeasideSusie profile image
SeasideSusieAdministrator

Mselk

As Metavive has no declared hormone content then it's not possible to answer your question.

When were you diagnosed?

What were your results (with reference ranges) on diagnosis?

How long have you been on 25mcg Levo?

Standard starter dose is 50mcg unless the patient is a child, elderly or has a heart condition.

After starting Levo, new tests should be done 6 weeks later, an increase in dose of 25mcg, retest 6-8 weeks later, another increase if necessary, and repeat until levels are where they need to be for you to feel well.

If you have only been on Levo a short time then patience is the key, there are no quick fixes whatever thyroid hormone replacement is taken.

Mselk profile image
Mselk in reply to SeasideSusie

I haven’t taken any levo yet at all. just been diagnosed a few weeks back

is this enough info?

t4 11.3. (12-22)

t3 3.6. (3.10-6.80)

tsh 6.7. (0.27-4.80)

thanks for your time and info x

SeasideSusie profile image
SeasideSusieAdministrator in reply to Mselk

Have you been prescribed Levo?

Mselk profile image
Mselk in reply to SeasideSusie

yes

SeasideSusie profile image
SeasideSusieAdministrator in reply to Mselk

Why aren't you taking it?

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

There are over 2 million people in the UK prescribed levothyroxine. The majority do fine

As others have said....50mcg is standard starter dose ....unless over 65 years old

The aim of Levothyroxine is to increase the dose slowly in 25mcg steps upwards until TSH is under 2 (many need TSH significantly under one) and most important is that FT4 is in top third of range and FT3 at least half way through range

NHS guidelines on Levothyroxine including that most patients eventually need somewhere between 100mcg and 200mcg Levothyroxine.

nhs.uk/medicines/levothyrox...

Also what foods to avoid (eg recommended to avoid calcium rich foods at least four hours from taking Levo)

Bloods should be retested 6-8 weeks after each dose increase

For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested. Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12

Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially if you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) diagnosed by raised Thyroid antibodies

Ask GP to test vitamin levels and antibodies if not been tested yet

You may need to get full Thyroid testing privately as NHS refuses to test TG antibodies if TPO antibodies are negative

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .

Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test. (taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip, best not mentioned to GP or phlebotomist)

All four vitamins need to be regularly tested and frequently need supplementing to maintain optimal levels

NICE guidelines

cks.nice.org.uk/hypothyroid...

The initial recommended dose is:

For most people: 50–100 micrograms once daily, preferably taken at least 30 minutes before breakfast, caffeine-containing liquids (such as coffee or tea), or other drugs.

This should be adjusted in increments of 25–50 micrograms every 3–4 weeks according to response. The usual maintenance dose is 100–200 micrograms once daily.

Mselk profile image
Mselk in reply to SlowDragon

Thank you very much for this imformation. My ferritin levels are v bottom of the range but am taking numerous bio available supplements as prescribed by a bioresonance therapist and don’t appear to be deficient in anything else.

helvella profile image
helvellaAdministrator in reply to Mselk

I wouldn't trust a bioresonance therapist and their opinion on deficiencies.

There again, most establishment medics are woefully ignorant.

So take the standard 210mg ferrous fumarate 3 times a day (you can buy from a pharmacy - eg Tesco - or online) with at least 500mg of Vit C and see how you go. Also make sure that you are getting enough riboflavin as that has an effect on iron.

Having low thyroid hormones and low levels of B12 - Folate - Ferritin - VitD - can be responsible for all sorts of sensitivities in the body - it happened to me.

So is your B12 around 500 - Folate and Ferritin mid-range and VitD around 100 ?

Your FT3 is below range - a hormone that is needed in every one of the trillions and trillions of cells in your body - so it is logical that when the result is low in range there simply is not enough to go around - then things begin to go wrong. Rather like trying to spread a teaspoon of butter on a whole loaf of bread.

The brain has first call on the T3 followed by the gut/immune system. Allergies/sensitivities can be an immune response.

Apologies for not being able to answer your question - reading your thread threw up lots of other topics ...

Hi Marz I appreciate you taking the time, it’s all useful information. My ferritin levels are right at the bottom of the scale , b12 is 700 and they didn’t test D :-/

If you were supplementing B12 at the time of testing, the result could be skewed. How are you treating low iron ? D3 must be tested.

Mselk profile image
Mselk in reply to Marz

i’m just taking chlorella for iron. which boosted me up since last tests...do you follow a protocol? i will get tested for D3 and the others and not take any supplements for 24hrs prior

Marz profile image
Marz in reply to Mselk

I self-inject B12 weekly as I am without a Terminal Ileum. I take a good B Complex - VitD 5000 iu's in winter - Magnesium - VitK2-MK7 - Selenium - VitC - CoQ10 - Zinc and 75mcg T3.

Doesn't sound as if the Chlorella is working - does chlorella contain iron ?.

It is said to, but I didn't find that it helped me. Works for many people though.

As Metavive is an OTC supplement, they cannot claim that it contains any hormone, so a comparison with levo is not possible, as there may or may not be any hormone in Metavive and it might vary from dose to dose. Might be better to source some actual NDT (probably cheaper, too)

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