Just been told of an item on BBC news.
Many thyroid sufferers also have B12 deficiency, (often 40% have both) so they might wish to pass it on to any relatives and friends who may not be aware of how vital it is for vegans and vegetarians to supplement B12:
Vegans 'need to be aware of B12 deficiency risk'
Scientists say it's 'not a myth' that people on a vegan diet need extra vitamin B12!
Sorry I can't seem to share BBC link but it's on the BBC news app.
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Hi Polaris—think this is the link 
Dr Skinner used to say that vegetarians were often hypothyroid and that he would also look for B12 deficiency.
Thank you so much Muffy . I'm a huge admirer of Dr Skinner but didn't know this 🤗 Three in our family are hypothyroid but were only able to be treated by Dr Skinner in the very early stages years ago, so wasn't discovered, as far as I know.
We all went on to develop B12 deficiency (FUT2 gene) but, unfortunately, my sister (vegan/vegetarian and misdiagnosed ME/CFS by her GP for many years) now has permanent neurological damage (misdiagnosed as dementia).........
Dr J. Chandy, (now retired after many years practising originally in India, then the NHS) has written an excellent book, "Vitamin B12 Deficiency in Clinical Practice". Like Dr Skinner and others, he was hounded by the BMA for his enlightened approach in giving patients their lives back !
Very true, I am vegan( whole food plant based) and it has helped a great deal especially since I am on high dose Prednisone as well. I take a B complex and a B 12 once a day and have normal B vitamin labs now. It’s sanitation that causes a lack of B 12. It’s is found in soil, animals eat grass( dirt) and get the B12, humans eat animals and get the vitamin. Therefore the sanitization of vegetables keeps vegans from getting the vitamin since we don’t eat the animals
Are you able to supply any credible sources for vegetables, however produced, containing the forms of cobalamin that humans can absorb and use?
It is such an important issue that we need to see high quality, well-researched information to back up any claims. Otherwise, we should assume lack of B12 and simply supplement.
I said I take supplements, just saying that meat eaters get the B 12 because animals consume it by eating enough dirt on grass, unwashed food. Vegans don’t eat meat, the cows aren’t making their own B 12, they eat it, so therefore don’t get the B12, most vegans are not outside eating the carrots( vegetables) pulled straight from the dirt, so no B12, therefore we supplement. I will attach an article, give me sometime
Supposedly there is a study that shows that vegetarians who consume dirty vegetables are less likely to have B12 deficiency (although the B12 could come from the manure used to fertilise the soil).
Supposedly humans can't create their own b12 from the bacteria in the soil due to the way our bodies ferment the bacteria.
Please read what I said, supplement if your vegan. I think the posts below explain better now why vegans need to supplement B12. There are some fortified foods containing B12 that are options for vegans like nutritional yeast and nut milks( read the labels) to make sure they are fortified with the B12, I personally eat these foods but don’t feel it’s enough so I supplement with a B complex and a B12 daily.
Booza, Therefore the sanitization of vegetables keeps vegans from getting the vitamin
I don't understand what you mean by 'sanitization'. Are you saying that washing vegetables removes the B12?
And what does 'whole food plant based' actually mean? By default, vegan must mean plant based mustn't it?
Ok you guys, not trying to start a vegan vs meat eaters argument here, simply agreeing that if you choose to be vegan for whatever reason, YES supplements for B12 is important and necessary. B12 is found in soil, read my above reply. Whole food plant based is what is says, we eat the whole food not the processed version. So no oil, eat the olives would be an example or no processed sugar, eat dates or unprocessed maple syrup for example. So yes, vegan is plant based, whole food plant based just eliminates “junk food vegan” , processed foods basically.
Ah ok, I get and totally agree with the 'no junk food' bit, which imho applies just as much to meat eaters too 
Still not convinced by the sanitisation thing though. If I grew my own veg (as I have done sometimes), I don't want to eat it exactly as it comes out of the ground. I rinse off the soil first with tap water. But maybe you're talking about commercial cleaning that perhaps uses excessive chlorine or similar?
Which is exactly what I was saying, we wash our vegetables and don’t eat them straight from the ground like the animals. I don’t want to nor do I eat dirt either. The animals aren’t making B12, they are consuming it, you are consuming the animal protein(flesh) and therefore consuming the B12 that the animal consumed, vegans don’t eat the animal so they don’t get the B12, it’s why they NEED to supplement this one.
Also a headline in the Daily Telegraph today.
Sorry Boozsa , I'm no expert, but only partly correct I'm afraid and is why the Professor's advice in the BBC link, to read more about nutrition and B12, is relevant to all, including clinicians, and especially all of us over 60, when B12 becomes more difficult for our bodies to absorb enough.....
Bacteria in the soil and on unscrubbed vegetables is a good source of B12 for vegan/vegetarians. Many vegan/vegetarians in India and warmer countries were able to survive deficiency because of the inevitable insect life in their food stores........
Professors are only now discovering that we're all too clean, and advising people to keep animals, allotments, and stop using so many antibacterial soaps, etc. to the detriment of our immune systems.
Polaris, "and advising people to keep animals"
As this is about being vegan, I'm assuming you're talking indoor animals i.e. pets here? If so, I'm a bit surprised because it seems to me that at the very least, we have more dog and cat owners these days than ever before! Pet food is a massive market
I'm not wishing to distract from the importance of supplementing for vegans or non vegans, B12 RedApple and I completely respect other choices - only making clear, as Boozsa pointed out, B12 could likely be sourced from bacteria in soil but also handling animals, insects, etc and so help keep our immune system/gut healthy.
I'm not a scientist (just read a lot) and can only think the professors mean vegetables would be free from chemicals on an allotment so a light wash would still leave some bacteria from the soil. Likewise, all animals.
Interestingly, I remember on one of Martyn Hooper's PAS early blogs, he wrote about having visited friends (with PA/12def.) who'd moved to a small organic farm (can't remember all the details, in Wales I think). After a while, they didn't appear to have the need to inject B12 any more! Much more research on the whole subject is badly needed.....
In the context of a thyroid forum, another issue with many vegan diets is obtaining adequate iodine.
theguardian.com/lifeandstyl...
Just because something is near-white and comes in the same sorts of containers as many dairy products says absolutely nothing about its nutritional content. So-called nut milks and so on typically do not have appreciable iodine content (nor B12).
I'm so sorry and feel for you Espeegee 😨I know how upsetting and frustrating it can be when GPs/ family/friends (not just vegan/vegetarian) go into denial or become reluctant to fully read/acknowledge how lack of a vitamin can so badly affect lives more and more in the long term ! It becomes such a loaded subject - vegetarians are usually idealistic, gentle, intelligent, and sensitive and over a long life I've made many such friends.........
The sad truth is that, although vitamin B12 is probably the most complex, vital and harder to absorb (having a larger molecule), there are other important amino acids in meat, fish and dairy, etc. that our bodies need to function optimally over the years ?
PS. A side note for this post and my only other post on here about the night sweats and cooling sheets:
You guys seem to be super attacking over here, quick to respond negatively, I have a lot of unwanted experience due to chronic health issues and have been through a lot. I’ve learned some things and I was saying YES please supplement or at least do your research if you choose to become vegan, don’t just assume you are getting everything you need. The same way I hope you wouldn’t assume on a “regular” diet. Here are my diagnosis if you need to make sure I’m credible, PMR, Hashimoto’s/Acquired Atrophic Thyroiditis, Papillary Thyroid Cancer, labs pending for Autoimmune Hypoparathyroidism, I was ANA positive and autoimmune disease undiagnosed for over five years, spent a lot of time researching and looking for any help I could get to ease horrible symptoms left untreated, Docs still don’t have all the answers for all that is going on with me, finally going to a University Hospital for Rheumatology in hopes of more answers and healing. I joined this site because Thyroid problems and Thyroid Cancer are taking over right now and I though it would be a useful place for info and I could maybe help someone else who has suffered as well. I will post an article to back up what I said about B12, as for the sheets they arrived yesterday and while they obviously did not stop the night sweats they helped keep the moisture for soaking my clothes too, so somewhat helpful, plus they are comfy
Boozsa, I don't think anyone here means to be 'super attacking' at all. We just don't like to blindly follow directions simply because a forum members writes them. Our posting guidelines have always asked that we evidence things wherever possible. 15. If possible, show a clear distinction between personal experience or opinion and evidence-based information. healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
Just seems that way, I only said what I do being vegan and all I was doing is agreeing with how important B 12 is for everyone and that if your vegan make sure your getting proper amounts because of the common deficiency in vegans due to where B12 comes from, the soil. I would never just throw out some post if I did not have personal experience or be able to back it up. Trying to help not hurt anyone and not trying to make the world vegan. It was a personal notice for me and one based mostly on my health issues.
An article from some of the plant based docs I trust regarding B12 and where it comes from. Mayo Clinic has articles of the same nature for vegans/ vegetarians and people with absorption problems.
eatplant-based.com/how-impo...
Not at all convinced by several aspects of that article.
The usual supplemental dose of vitamin B12 for the average person is 250 micrograms a day or 2,500 micrograms a week.
It might well be that 2,500 micrograms a week is plenty but possibly not if taken in one dose. The amoun of Intrinsic Factor even those of us who can produce it is small and the majority of a 2,500 dose will pass through without getting absorbed into our bodies. Better to take little and often.
Good Grief! Consult your physician for the proper dosage and what you need based on YOU individually, The article explains about B12 and where it comes from and why vegans especially need to supplement.
That’s all I was saying. Where would you like me to find an article saying the same thing that would be acceptable for you? Can you find an article saying B12 comes from something other than soil, or sediments in water? If you can find an article showing me an animal that MAKES its own B12 or protein for that matter, I would love to see it. You don’t want helpful contributions, just arguments. Sorry for you on that one 
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