Can't sleep if I take desiccated thyroid at night

[dragonfly76]

Hello everyone. I know that I need to have blood work done after taking desiccated thyroid within 8-12 hours. The problem is if I take even half a grain I will be up all night and I feel sick to my stomach, very nauseated. This doesn't happen if I take it in the morning with a much higher dose. I was taking 120 mg at 6:00 am and 30 mg at 11 am but today I changed to take 90 mg at 6:00 am and 60 mg at 11:00 am to see if it makes a difference. I already suffer from severe insomnia sleeping 3-4 hours a night and sometimes even less. How am I supposed to do this? Thank you.

[greygoose]

Who are the blood tests for? Your endo? GP? Or just for you? If for a doctor, what's his take on TSH? If he's not flummoxed by a suppressed TSH - and I presume you don't care what your TSH is - then you can do the test any time. Doing early morning is in order to get the highest TSH. But, as you're taking NDT, I imagine your TSH is going to be pretty low, anyway, isn't it? As long as you leave a gap of 8-12 hours for the Frees, it really doesn't matter what time you do the test.

[dragonfly76 in reply to greygoose]

Hi, the test results are for my GP and she is really focused on the TSH. She told me to reduce my dose, saying that I am taking too much thyroid medication. I still feel really sick and I don't know what to do. Maybe desiccated thyroid is not for me. I have Hashimoto's and I don't seem to get well. thanks for your time.

[greygoose in reply to dragonfly76]

Did your GP prescribe the NDT? If so, the silly woman should know that taking it is going to suppress your TSH, and it doesn't matter because the reason your pituitary is no-longer producing TSH is because you no-longer need it.

It could be that NDT doesn't suit you, but what did you try before that? Levo? How did you feel on levo? Or, it could be that you're actually under-medicated. But, we'd have to see some blood test results and ranges to know that. Do you have any to share?

Or, it could be that you have nutritional deficiencies that mean that the NDT doesn't work as well as it should. Have you had your vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin tested?

[dragonfly76 in reply to greygoose]

She is a new family doctor, an endocrinologist was the one who started me on it, even thought he told me all the bad thing for not taking it and wanted me to take T4 only. He was the one who told me I have Hashimoto's and kept me at a very low dose for so many years. At the time I was pregnant and I told him that would be the only medication I would take, so then he gave it to me. I got to higher dose with a naturopath, she told me 24 hours with be good after medication to do blood work. But here is 8-12 hours, I just want to do the right thing so I get the right results.

[manifesting_healing in reply to greygoose]

Also if you have had your gallbladder removed or it isn't functioning well. You will need enzymes to get that or any thyroid into your cells

Deana

[greygoose in reply to manifesting_healing]

Do you realise that this thread is 2 years old? Possible that the OP doesn't even come on the forum anymore.

I'm not sure you're right about the gallbladder. I had mine removed years ago, and don't take any enzymes, yet the thyroid hormone I take gets into the cells - if it didn't I'd be dead by now! Where did you get that idea from?

[Redditch]

I've always taken mine in one dose in the morning, I'm feeling great on 4 grains of Thiroyd taken at 7am.. no need to split it if it's working...

[Sus64 in reply to Redditch]

Hello, I'm curious, if you take all your NDT at 7am then at what time of day do you get your lab tests done in order to leave the 8 - 12 hours?

[silverfox7]

I assuming your doctor is aware what you are taking? She may not know that taking any form of T3 then results need to be read differently. TSH will be suppressed, FT4 can be lower in its range but but FT3 should be high in its range but never over if you are on the correct dose for you. If you are uncertain where you are on NDT may be a good idea to tell us more about that as well. We may be able to help with that.

[Hidden in reply to silverfox7]

thyroidresearchjournal.biom...

This guidance for endos on T3 prescribing suggests avoid suppressed tsh

[dragonfly76 in reply to silverfox7]

My blood work was taken 17 hours after medication

TSH 0.01 ranges 0.32-4.00

Free T4 13 ranges 9-19

Free T3 5.8 ranges 2.6-5.8 My doctor just focus on the TSH, good thing she is not prescribing the medication, my naturopath is. But I need her for the blood work. I still need to test folate and D3. My hemoglobin is low 118 ranges 120-160, my RBC low 3.95 ranges 4.00-5.10 and ferritin low 21 ranges 5-272.

[silverfox7]

Just had a look at your thyroid results and yes my Endo would shout, well does, when I'm at the top of the range! When I was increasing I got higher than I should do, testing showed me that, but my Endo dropped me from 3 grains to 1.75 which I thought was far too much. I'd started my thyroid journey on NDT many years ago and thought, from experience, I wasdoing ok. By changing over from Levo I followed the instructions to increase in half grains until I was up to 2 then go slowly in quarters till I reached my sweet spot. Of course I side t realist I'd already missed it by going from 1.5 to 2 grains! So now I always drop down my dose first to see what happens. If dropping down, after a while, makes me feel a lot worse then I know I'm going the wrong way. But if I start by increasing then I don't have any guidance to how I am doing and the problem then it I could keep increasing but it's never going to happen life when I was starting out again. I would drop back and see what happens. Remember you will take longer before you retest as you need to get the 'extra' fully out of your system. I have now dropped even further to 1.75/1.75/1.5 rotated and feel pretty good.

[dragonfly76 in reply to silverfox7]

My blood results were 17 hours after medication. I never feel anything with increasing or reducing so it's hard for me to go how I feel. I guess finding my good spot is much more difficult then some people make it seem.

[silverfox7 in reply to dragonfly76]

So thatspossibly why you are at the top of the range. May be drop down a quarter and see how you feel then.

[Hypopotamus]

I don't take any thyroid medication for 12 hours before my blood is drawn. I then take my two grains straight after (usually an hour before lunch), and the afternoon 1/4 grain at around 15:00.

It is really sad how many doctors do not realise that TSH will be fully suppressed if the patient is taking T3 or NDT, and tell the patient to drop their dose.

As regards insomnia, try taking selenium after your supper. You are certainly waking early enough, and should be tired enough to go to sleep. Try and have your bed in an east-west orientation. For some reason it does help. And avoid anything with caffeine after mid day.

[dragonfly76 in reply to Hypopotamus]

I take selenium with vitamin e after dinner and I never drink coffee or tea because of my insomnia.

[Hypopotamus in reply to dragonfly76]

The only other thing that has helped dramatically with my insomnia (although that is not why I took it up) is meditation. And I do notice if I don't do it that I do take longer to drop off when I go to bed.

[dragonfly76 in reply to Hypopotamus]

thank you

[Aurealis]

I found that a bedtime dose of NDT had to be introduced very gradually, starting with 0.25 grain, else sleep was disrupted. It seems best to take it very last thing, just before going to sleep.

[Sus64]

True, but the recommended time frame is 24 hour gap for T4 drugs, and 8-12 hours for the NDT with T3. Which are you on?

[Sus64]

Oh, I've missed that information! A 24 hour window would be much easier than having to change my schedule to take NDT at bedtime just for the sake of a test next morning. Could you kindly point me to the formula, or what I can do a search for on the site?

[Sus64]

Okay, this is great, thanks so much!

[Sus64]

Well yes, and just as importantly for me, I don't have to COMPLETELY change my pill schedule just to accommodate the test!

[Hidden]

Maybe helpful to those under endos to understand their practice and references to the research which has informed this.

My main reason for posting was that maybe not everyone on T3 will have a suppressed tsh if endos who prescribe say this...

[NWA6]

I suffered from Insomina for most of my life. Even as a child I remember laying awake for hours on end. I have times in my Hashimotos were I’ve fallen asleep at 6pm and slept right through and then more recently I’ve had the oppposite, tired but unable to switch off. The ONLY thing that saves me is Audible. I’ve always been a ferocious reader but adulting and mothering has meant less chance to read so I found Audible and I could get all my housework done and enjoy it 😀 My books were so good that I would enjoy going to bed, set the timer for 30mins and the story would lull me off to sleep. If I’m struggling with insomnia then I’ll pop the timer on for longer! It’s like meditation for me.

[LAHs]

Perhaps I am missing something. I realize that some people take NDT just before bed, but why? It is the T3 in NDT that makes you sharp, lively and energetic. Wouldn't you want that first thing in the morning and wouldn't you expect that to keep you awake at night?

[dragonfly76 in reply to LAHs]

The reason I wanted to take desiccated thyroid at night would be only when I do the blood work in the morning. When on desiccated you need to test 8-12 hours after medication. So if I took it at 8:00 pm than I can do Blood work at 8:00 am, that would be 12 hours.

[LAHs in reply to dragonfly76]

Yes, does anyone know why 12 hours is quoted everywhere but 24 hours is unacceptable? 12 hours will reduce most of your T3 (it's half gone after 8 hours) and so will 24 hours. I always do 24 hours, i.e. I get my blood tested before breakfast, take my meds then head for a nearby cafe making sure I take a little over half an hour to get there (for absorption of meds), where I get brunch.

[dragonfly76 in reply to LAHs]

24 hours is foe T4 only. If you take desiccated thyroid or T3 you need 8-12. If desiccated thyroid is what you are taking 24 hours will give you a false low, because 24 hours is too long with desiccated thyroid or T3. I want to know where I am at without false low or high. Not taking enough medication is bad and taking too much medication is also as bad.

[LAHs in reply to dragonfly76]

OK, makes sense, thanks.

[manifesting_healing]

If you split your doses even with taking the same mg all day you need to only take .5 might increments at the other doses. When it is taken at higher doses it kind of slam the receptivity doors shut. Kind of like insulin resistance. The book stop the thyroid madness book tells how to do it. There is a website to give you some answers. The book really helped me. I hope you get some rest soon

Deana