"Groggy" following intense exercise. Why?

[TeamMK]

Asking for my friend )age 51). He has been taking TRMan for a few months now, very gradually increasing dose and monitoring, and has felt that he has now stabilised at 4 grains, 2 in the morning and 2 at night, together with Mg Ca D3. His mood has overall considerably increased for the better, in addition to other improvements. He runs and goes to the gym (which is part of his routine going back decades) and works VERY hard at it, 3/4 times a week. He has noticed that on the mornings (and sometimes that sets the tone for the rest of the day) following exercise he has the "groggy" feeling, which he would describe as "struggling to think clearly, can't get going, lack of "energy", no get up and go - generally a bad day. He is a "do-er", and whereas such a lot has improved for him with the NDT, he is wondering if there is any logic to the fact that fairly intense exercise is causing the NDT to lose some of its efficacy..............and what to do about it. His "bad" days are certainly not as bad as they used to be, but we don't understand that this "groggy" feeling in the morning is still around, and why. Does anyone have anything to share?

[Hidden]

Hi there are a few studies on the impact of exercise on thyroid hormones. There is evidence that exercise raises T3 levels then it drops which maybe why your friend feels groggy.

I exercise a lot and know that after an intense or longer run I often need to put my feet up or nap. I find I need to increase intensity slowly. Your friend may need to think about when he takes his dose of NDT to support the exercise. That will be a little trial and error on what works for him.

joe.bioscientifica.com/down...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/1...

There is a study that supports exercise in thyroid patients so it’s not to be avoided.

amhsjournal.org/article.asp...

Hope this helps.

[Judithdalston]

He is using up his T3 as it drives his very hard exercise... then depletes, perhaps on these days he could add a bit of T3. Shifting the NDT dose might help, but he’d still be short of T3 for later that day, and if taking more NDT his inactive T4 will rise.....so it depends how well he converts T4 to T3. I see he is taking Mg, Ca and D3 (what doses, for bones? In which case he needs Vit K2)....has he had folate, ferritin, Vit B12 and D tested...as optimal ( upper part of range) is needed for good thyroid health and conversion? Persuade him to get bloods tested....FT3 ( once taking any T3 you can forget TSH and FT4) and the vits / mins.

[Nessy50]

B12 maybe low? Similar symptoms

[MissGrace]

I’m only on T4. When I asked my endo about exercise he said you will always probably feel more tired after e.g. a ten mile hike than someone who has a normal thyroid as you are running on a set amount. What a bummer! 🤸🏿‍♀️🥛

[joiaz]

Hi,

Hypothyroids are often low in iron. Has he checked his iron (and B12) levels including red blood cell indices, to see if he has iron deficiency anaemia?

Iron deficiency is also quite common in runners – regular / long distances (more than the casual jogger type) due to “foot strike haemolysis”. He’s probably heard of it.

The running foot strikes the ground - say 100 times a minute and at some force, causing the red blood cells to rupture. So red blood cells are destroyed and at a rate quicker than his body can make new ones to replace them. Also, I think I recall, when you’re hypothyroid your body produces red blood cells at a slower rate than normal as well.

I went through a phase of feeling a bit crap /weird after runs and really thirsty which wasn’t relived by drinking water. I assumed it was something to do with being hypo, then realised it was an electrolyte imbalance - essential salts lost through sweating, worse in summer.

So to my running water bottle I always add ¼ tsp cream of tarter, ¼ tsp pink Himalayan salt and ½ or so a fizzy 1g vitamin C zinc tablet*** - winter and summer. And also after runs, especially in summer.

Or you can buy sachets of electrolyte powder.

*** After 40 minutes intense exercise cortisol levels also start to rise, vitamin C can reduce the effects of cortisol.

Just being dehydrated can also make you feel a bit off.

I run and swim regularly and bit of weights. An early night and a good 8 hours sleep before an early morning run makes a huge difference - otherwise I can feel tired / sleepy and a sort of unfocused later in the day. I’m also a bit IDA and for me I put it down to this rather than a thyroid thing.

Check for iron deficiency anaemia – and perhaps try doing just a slightly shorter run at a slightly slower pace / like wise the gym, to see if it helps.

[TeamMK]

My friend thanks you all for your replies, and would like to respond as follows:-

"Not for the morning grogginess, but I have considered taking additional T3. I take 4-grains of NDT (2 am/2 pm) and this has worked wonders, I have more energy, I have bulked-up and I have more muscle density, I recover from exercise quicker, I’m not as sore and my moods have mostly stabilised. On the negative side, I am still experiencing some mood and energy swings, and I have noticed from 2.5-grains onwards, my respiratory function/capacity has reduced. At the start of a run I struggle to fill my lungs, whereas before I didn’t. I have previously had my lungs checked and COPD and asthma and I got the all clear. Possibly the damp sea air where I live could be a factor because I never had these issues in the warmer climate of Australia. Possibly I may have mild exercise induced asthma. Also, I cannot shift the remainder of my midriff fat. My thought process was T3 would help to get rid of this. But what you say does make sense. This is the only T3 I have found obtainable without a prescription, which I know from previous experience my Dr/GP will not provide: thyroidthailand.com/. Scroll to the bottom and look at LA Pharma T3 CYTOMEL (Liothyronine) 100 mcg. Does anyone have experience with these? If I read correctly this is a natural product?

I mainly exercise late afternoon, and often have a sauna after my two-weekly 60-90-minute weight sessions. For instance today I did a hard 60 min weights session, and felt great. However, given my recent pattern I can expect medium/heavy morning grogginess tomorrow. I don’t really want to increase my NDT beyond 4-grains/tabs (I suspect my respiratory issues would worsen), so perhaps I could take a T3 tab after exercise, and in the evening when I don’t exercise? In fact, the links you kindly provided would support additional T3 after exercise, however, as to when is the optimal time is going to be trial and error.

I take the Mg, Ca and D3 to aid my mental wellbeing more than anything else. SSRI meds were sending me over the edge, quite literally. I do believe Vit K2 is worth considering also. My folate, ferritin, Vit B12 and D levels are all “clinically” within range, however, “sub-clinically” they are probably slightly low and may need to be optimised further.

Vit D - 100-150nmol/L according to the Vit D Council/Vit D Society

B12 882 ng/l (range 200-680)

Mid-range is 440, so I am high

Folate 7.8 mg/ml (2.5-17.0)

Mid-range is 9.6, so I am low

Iron 24 umol/l (9-32)

Mid-range is 20.5, so seemingly I am okay

Transferrin 2.1 g/l (1.7-4.3)

Mid-range is 3.0, so I am low

I will also look at increasing my Vit C intake to overcome the red blood cell damage and increased cortisol levels.

As for electrolyte levels, I have been aware of this from living in Australia where I would always exercise in extremely hot temps. As it happens, I am in the process of formulating and marketing a premium hypotonic electrolyte replacement solution. When released it will be called Hypolyte Hydration and it will be a rapidly absorbed (osmolarity of 150) drink when mixed with water.

As an aside. I have read human growth hormone can be helpful when combined with NDT. Can anyone shed any light on HGH and where to obtain it? I have a good working knowledge of NDT and where to obtain it, and T3, however, I have no knowledge of HGH. In fact, my only knowledge of HGH is that it gets a bad wrap because it is generally misused/abused.

Once again, thank you all.

"