HI again; I wonder which of the above is better; I've been using NDT since 23rd Sept (3/4 grain) ; I felt very dizzy last night around 10pm (I take NDT around 7.30am) and had chest pains most of the afternoon; Not sure what is the reason for the dizzy spells - it could be an infection (I've a reccuring cyst) combined with tiredness....or sinuses which are always slightly blocked up. The Pharmacist from Customized4u said it's not NDT as I'd notice the dizzy spells shortly after taking it....However I'll postpone the increase to 1 grain till better; Also as my NDT is expensive and from a reputable Pharmacy and I also spend a fortune on Bio identical hormones from said place I wondered where do you all buy your NDT from ? and is it same as Thyrovanz? Thanks a lot in advance ! Feel free to private message me;
NDT or Thyrovanz?: HI again; I wonder which of... - Thyroid UK
NDT or Thyrovanz?
The dizzy spells could be from not enough NDT. Or low B12. Have you had that tested?
Yes B12 was fine - but it was a serum test which I believe isn't accurate ....Maybe I've low blood pressure but am sure I've also got a cold Thanks a lot x
Who said it was fine? Your doctor? he wouldn't know.
Yes I had a few blood tests this year - all were over the normal range ! But I heard there's a better test that really tell you what's absorbed by your cells - I didn't do that one yet - and for that one you need to be off B12 for 6 months anyway so won't be doing that for a while.... I measured my blood pressure last night and sure enough it was low ! at 111 71 & 72 for pulse.....lately I've noticed I've low blood pressure (when I was younger it was often high and mum suffered with high blood pressure all her life so I never think I could be the other way !)
But an acupuncture lady said I have low iron (just by looking into my mouth !) and suggested I eat steak 2 or 3 times per week which I don't - I do however take dessicated beef liver capsules....Iron wasn't too bad but not high ; ie Ferritin in May was: 43 (normal 15-250) ug/L...in August : 117....(Medicheck normal range: 13- 150) In June Medicheck finger prick Ferritin was : 81.7
B12 was everytime over the normal range....
I don't think the 'other' B12 test tells you what is getting into the cells - it's always impossible to test for that. It's just that it measures the B12 capable of being absorbed into the cells - a bit like the difference between the Free T3 test and the Total T3 test. But, well worth doing.
There is a test - I forgot the name : MMA or similar - it detects what's been absorbed and there is a test in this country too Here it is:labtestsonline.org/tests/me...
labtestsonline.org/tests/me...
Yes, you're right. MMA. But I still don't think it tests what's in the cells, just what's available in the blood.
MMA is a urine test and is an accurate test for B12 levels.
B12 in the blood? Or B12 in the cells?
It's both urine & blood ; The urine checks 3 markers whilst blood 1 :medichecks.com/pages/search... It seems it may well have to be this one which is very expensive ( for pernicious anaemia) medichecks.com/pages/search...
Do you have Hashimoto's? Diagnosed by high thyroid antibodies
Essential to always test and get actual results and ranges on vitamins.
Couldn't see results to any of these on your previous posts
For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4, FT3 plus TPO and TG thyroid antibodies and also very important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12
Private tests are available. Thousands on here forced to do this as NHS often refuses to test FT3 or antibodies or vitamins
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...
Medichecks Thyroid plus ultra vitamin or Blue Horizon Thyroid plus eleven are the most popular choice. DIY finger prick test or option to pay extra for private blood draw. Both companies often have money off offers.
All thyroid tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and fasting. When on Levothyroxine, take last dose 24 hours prior to test, and take next dose straight after test. This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip, GP will be unaware)
If also on T3, or on NDT make sure to take last dose 12 hours prior to test
If antibodies are high this is Hashimoto's, (also known by medics here in UK more commonly as autoimmune thyroid disease).
About 90% of all hypothyroidism in Uk is due to Hashimoto's. Low vitamins are especially common with Hashimoto's. Food intolerances are very common too, especially gluten. So it's important to get TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested at least once .
Link about thyroid blood tests
thyroiduk.org/tuk/testing/t...
Link about antibodies and Hashimoto's
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...
List of hypothyroid symptoms
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/about_...
Yes I've done all the test SlowDragon; I've Hypothyroidism; TPO & TPG was OK....just low T3 & T4 and some reverse T3...
Here they are from August Medichecks test : TSH 2.92mIU/L (0.27-4.20)
FT4 15.400 pmol/L (12.00-22.00)
FT3 5.15 pmol/L (3.10-6.80)
RT3 14 ng/dL (10.00-24.00)
RT3 RATIO 23.95 (15.01-75.00)
THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODY <10 IU/mL (0.00 - 115.00)
Thyroid Peroxidase antibodies 10.2 IU/ml (0.00 - 34.00)
The rest of the vitamins were checked and found to be OK
TSH perhaps a bit too high
FT4 a bit low (typical on NDT)
FT3 very good
RT3 all fine and within range
Can you add actual vitamin results and ranges.
Just being within range is often not good as
I only started NDT on 23rd September ; the blood test was done a month earlier in August; The Vitamins are : from the August test (most recent): Active B12. 300 (range: 25.10-165) Folate: 19.98 (2.91-50.00) 25 OH Vit D 113 (range: 50.00 - 200.00) I think the TSH was higher thanks to Iodine supplementation....now on maintenace dose only....
If these results were on Levothyroxine, it suggests you are good converter. Perhaps just needed higher dose of Levothyroxine
Levothyroxine is increased slowly in 25mcg steps, retesting 6-8 weeks later. This continues until TSH is around one and FT4 towards top of range and FT3 at least half way in range
What dose of Levothyroxine were you on then?
Dr Toft, past president of the British Thyroid Association and leading endocrinologist, states in Pulse Magazine,
"The appropriate dose of levothyroxine is that which restores euthyroidism and serum TSH to the lower part of the reference range - 0.2-0.5mU/l.
In this case, free thyroxine is likely to be in the upper part of its reference range or even slightly elevated – 18-22pmol/l.
Most patients will feel well in that circumstance. But some need a higher dose of levothyroxine to suppress serum TSH and then the serum-free T4 concentration will be elevated at around 24-28pmol/l.
This 'exogenous subclinical hyperthyroidism' is not dangerous as long as serum T3 is unequivocally normal – that is, serum total around T3 1.7nmol/l (reference range 1.0-2.2nmol/l)."
You can obtain a copy of the articles from Thyroid UK email print it and highlight question 6 to show your doctor please email Dionne at
tukadmin@thyroiduk.org
Presumably you supplement B12, B complex and vitamin D?
You could reduce B12 supplements a bit
I only just started the NDT on 23rd September.....no thyroid medications previously at all
Information on your profile is helpful.
Or background info on each post
As not on any thyroid medication, your results from August don't suggest a thyroid problem. No antibodies and vitamins good.
Yes the August blood test result was better then the one in June (in June it was via a fingerprick) - the TSH was worse in June (almost 5 ..) .As I've ME my Dr agreed it'd be good to work towards optimal for thyroid...I've also started Bio identical hormones in a bid for better health; I'm also on LDN at night (Low Dose Naltrexone) which helped with sleep and a little with pain too...for low Cortisol I'm starting Adrenavive 11 ; I've also low blood pressure which makes me dizzy on & off...
You do need to check your levels of both T3 and T4; if your doctor insists on synthetic stuff no matter how you feel, I suggest another doctor. I felt fine on Thyrovanz 100 and horrible on Synthroid-- it's most likely safer to take a prescription medication (I use Armour) under doctor supervision, but if you can't get a natural one, you could try Thyrovanz and see how you feel. However, for any severe symptoms, please get checked out by doc or a good PA, and have labs done, as complete as possible.
Now on THyrovanz NZ ( 2 yrs later) and results worse then they've ever been.....I'll get back to other NDT's it seems without checking the change of taking Tyrovanz since 12th Oct; Sublinqually as 50mg in morning & 25mg whole / orally around 2pm.....As 50mg TNyrovanz is out of stock I will be getting back to Thyroid S which I only used for 2 months when I heard it has aluminium & talc ( which Erfa had / talc too) but as we've aluminium everywhere I think I'll take my chances....My favourite was NP by Acella, but it's very expensive; Thanks for your advise ladies here x
I have been trying Thyrovanz for about 6 weeks now and I’ve noticed allergy symptoms and a headache behind my eyes that gets worse when I raise. All the NDT’s seem to have gone south in the last year and a half so I wanted to try something new. Not sure if I will keep trying Thyrovanz.
Before starting THyrovanz NZ I was taking Erfa and felt OK ( never tested on it however) but as I've lots of Thyroid S I will start that in a month's time when I run out of Thyrovanz NZ....Good Luck to you
Isn’t thyroid s out of stock now too? Will you run into a challenge once you are through your stock?
I had it from last year; Was told however that they're selling it on eBay; When I run out ( it won't be for 2 or so years / but might give up earlier as testing is very expensive ) I just might give up on using it.....as my symptoms are still there...can't stand 5C ..perspire lots then feeling v cold; Am slim, not loosing hair ...just on & off tired and sometimes not sleeping well and joint pains on & off ....My labs were better on Iodine protocol ( however I didn't test the reverse T3 at the time and that's also important) If reverse T3 is over 13 it stops the T3 getting to our cells....My health problems are probably a combination of things ( I've ME) - not just thryoid...
You might find this article about T3 and rT3 of interest:
Visualizing thyroid hormone activity in cells: T3 and RT3 in context
By thyroidpatientsca on November 12, 2019
thyroidpatients.ca/2019/11/...
So from this do I understand that reverse T3 isn't a problem ? or rather that even if it's low one can have the Deiodinase enzyme affecting/ blocking the T3 ? Thanks
That is pretty much where I am!
I think a mistaken interpretation has been repeated all over the place. The issues and questions are very complex and more research is definitely needed.
But the "rT3 blocks T3 receptors" mantra appears to be wrong.
Thank you; Will check later x
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