Changing T3 doses to every 8-hours

[GKeith]

I woke up this morning at 9;15 A.M nd began eating breakfast: oatmeal with blueberries, strawberries, raspberries, raisins and blackberries and 2 glasses of O.J, with a raw egg beat into them, via a mixer. So, the phone rings and it's a buddy of mine, whose brother recently died, and we began an hour+long conversation. Make a long story short, I forgot the rest of my breakfast. So, comes noon and I gotta swallow my 15 mcg of T3, which I had totally forgotten about thirty minutes previously when I gobbled down the rest of my breakfast. I thought nothing of it and swallowed the three 5mcg T3 pills, as I had been, recently, swallowing the three T3 pills a half-hour after my T4 pill many previous night's.

I go into my office, my workroom, I'm (still) a writer, I think, I hope, but it's hard to tell anymore I do so little writing (thinking) because of hypo. Anyway, as soon as I sit down I feel as if I'm gonna faint, makes no sense but then, the index finger on my left hand suddenly turns numb and then the thumb and I know something's gone wrong? I keep rubbing the thumb and index finger and try to think of what I could have eaten that would give me this adverse a reaction but the finger and thumb keep me busy.

I get up, mad, and go into my garage, where I have a speed-bag and a heavy bag. I am an ex-pro boxer and I was mad. I was confused and groggy, just like one time, back in the 60's, when I was just about to turn pro after just losing a split decision in the finals of the New Mexico golden gloves, and another boxer hit me in a sparring match and I saw stars for twenty minutes, even when I was punching the bags, which went on this morning, until I stopped, even as the numbness in my left hand was now gone but I was still dizzy and couldn't “see” straight.

I went into my bedroom and laid down and it took maybe a half-hour to feel “awake” enough to get up.

Since then, I have tried to think what happened and what possible food I could have eaten that would decimate me so. Anyone have any clues? I'm thinking of cutting my two 15 mcg doses of T3 to 10 mcg doses, three times a day, because I get cold hands and feet after 8-hours of taking my dose and, as we all know, the thyroid controls the metabolism

[Aurealis]

May just be because you took your T3 at a different time. I wouldn’t worry about it, unless you think it’s a circulatory problem and unconnected to thyroid.

[GKeith in reply to Aurealis]

I thought I replied but probably forgot to post it. Anyway, the times are gonna be less troublesome for me, I think, now, because my endo refused to up my dose but did say he would split them to three doses at 10 mcg 3 times a day. Makes no sense to me but I'll take the 10 mcg 3 times a day and see for a couple months and if I feel a "need" to go back to 15mcg but 3 times a day I'll do it myself and then tell him to prescribe what I'm already taking or I'll get another endo because the one I got, obviously, is very stingy with prescribing any upward dosing of T3. He ain't gonna like that but ain't that too bad.

[greygoose]

If that's what you normally have for breakfast, I doubt it was anything you ate that caused that reaction. And I've never heard of T3 causing anything like that. I wouldn't worry unless it happens again.

[GKeith in reply to greygoose]

It is my "normal" breakfast: the only thing that really bothers me, now, is that my hands and feet still, (after many years) on many occasions, get "ice-cold" but only early in the morning or very late at night (past midnight) and sometimes my fingers are just shy of "numb." I know it's the thyroid, obviously, because it controls the metabolism, but my fingers never before just went numb, in the daytime when they weren't "cold," so it was very strange, as I've "lost" all my other hypothyroid symptoms and still wonder, why do I still get this "intolerance" to cold very early A.M. and late P.M.? It's very "annoying" because, obviously, I want to be "free" of all the symptoms to call myself "cured."

[greygoose in reply to GKeith]

To be totally honest, I doubt you'll ever be able to call yourself 'cured'. We do the best we can, but nothing is every perfect.

But, one thing I don't understand is why you take your T3 an hour after your levo. Why don't you take them all together? As long as they are at least an hour before food, or two/three hours after, it doesn't matter when you take them. Of course, different times make a difference to some people, but I've never found that the time I take it has any sort of effect.

By the way, I enjoyed reading your post.

[GKeith in reply to greygoose]

Thank you and I appreciate your time and knowledge gathered from the pain(s) of living through such ordeals as most of us human beings have to go through.

Yes, it was my pharmacist's idea (order) to take the T3 and hour or so after the T4. No reason was given but most pharmacist's are like most MD's, they never really explain things, they prefer "orders."

[greygoose in reply to GKeith]

'Tis my belief that they never explain things because they don't really know. But, that is the silliest! lol

[Hidden]

Cut to the chase please next time.

[GKeith in reply to Hidden]

The "chase" goes on, still, as I, forever it seems, sometimes, chase after my "optimum" dose of hormones. Sometimes you can say a lot in a few words, sometimes, unfortunately, you need many words just to say something that may very well be "meaningless" to many, except the one who is "stricken," as they search for the "correct" words to match up with what they are feeling. Sorry I couldn't find the "right" words sooner, so I could have trimmed them down, which, of course, takes even more time. Peace be upon your spirit.

[Aurealis in reply to GKeith]

We are all learning....

[GKeith in reply to Aurealis]

That's how it always is and, of course, when we "learn" it all and are ready to "write a book" to be condensed and free to everyone to reveal all our knowledge, alas, it is (usually) too late for we are, by then, either dead, or too tired to care. Ah, but, c'est la vie, huh? Or, as Frank Sinatra always sang: "that's life."

[humanbean]

I couldn't work out from your story at what times you take your T3 and T4 on an ideal day, and what changed on the day you describe. Clearly you took your T3 closer to food than normal, and the time seems to have changed. Did anything else change?

[GKeith in reply to humanbean]

On an ideal day I used to take my one 50 mcg T4 pill at 11:00 P.M. and a 15mcg T3 an hour later, then another 15mcg pill the next day at noon. But, as you can see from my reply to Aurealis, the dose and times have changed, hopefully for the better, as I chase (don't we all) for my "nirvana" dose of hormone meds.

[humanbean in reply to GKeith]

There is no advantage that I'm aware of in taking T4 and T3 an hour apart. T4 and T3 can be taken together. So, decide whether you want to take your later dose of T3 at 11pm or midnight, and then take your T4 at the same time.

Regarding the mid-day dose of T3, if taking it at noon works for you then make sure you eat lunch an hour later to maximise your absorption.

Don't forget that you can split your dose into 3 or 4 if it works for you, or take it all at once - different people tolerate different dosing schedules. Also be aware that you can have different sized doses e.g 20mcg when you wake up and 10mcg 2 or 3 hours after lunch. There is no need to change your total dose (unless you are over or under-medicated), but you can experiment with the schedule of dose-taking as much as you like.

Regarding cold hands and feet, I've always had this issue and no amount of twiddling with my dose(s) has ever made the problem go away. I wear thick woolly bed socks for about 9 months out of each year.

[wagnermia]

I also get cold hands and feet. This has baffled me thinking is it time for next dose? Should I have take the dose earlier thus avoiding the cold hands and feet? And usually following the ‘chill’ which could last a few hours. I break into a dripping sweat like breaking a fever when sick. And then I feel great. Still trying to get my dose amount and timing sorted (w a doctor who only does small increment increases every 6 weeks. Ugh) and very confused. Curious to others opinion on this.

[GKeith]

Yes, cold hands and feet, along with a slight intolerance to light at night when I sleep, are the only "symptoms I have left and I would like to be free of them: I'm still trying and have changed my routine time of dosing 15 mcg twice a day to 10 mcg three times a day. I have done only 3 doses but, thus far, it appears to be "working."

[Aurealis]

I think that cold hands and feet can be signs of underdosing or overdos8ng. You should be able to eliminate them. Good luck

[GKeith]

I feel that way also and hope to "prove" it by dosing changes until my metabolism warms up my hands and feet, as it should have done long ago.

[Aurealis in reply to GKeith]

I know we’re all different, but I cannot function without taking T3 first thing each morning, as well as some later. Just wondered if you’ve tried T3 first thing?

[GKeith]

I have not but I will now. I plan to try once, twice, and three times, or more to see what suits me the best, and feels the best. I sometimes feel like I just fell off an ocean liner and, I am floating in the ocean when I see hundreds of people standing on the ship's deck and I know they see me and my "friends & family" are also on the deck but no one is "looking" for me because no one wants to "see" me or "deal" with me any longer. Very frustrating.

[thyr01d in reply to GKeith]

I know that feeling too and have dreams about it, rather sad.

I read that its after 2 hours that T3 is 'peaking' and have noticed that around 1 - 2 hours after taking it my hands do warm up (though not feet, I wore socks through the night all through this hot summer and slept under a duvet!).

Best of luck with your last few symptoms.

[GKeith in reply to thyr01d]

I have been vastly under-dosed, I believe, by my endo, whose stingy T3 prescriptions don't go over 15 mcg's twice a day. I took the whole dose within an hour of each other last night and tonight I will also: The 50 mcg T4 with 15mcg of lio and the other 15 mcg of lio, maybe an hour or two, later, or, if I fall asleep, whenever I awaken. I felt a real "jolt" of energy I can't describe when I took this much together and feel as if it must be close to my right dose, which if I raise it again, I'll have to pay for myself, as my endo barely wants to prescribe me any: he started me on 5mcg, twice a day and then 10 mcg, twice a day and I had to tell him I wanted to take it 3 times a day in order to get 10 mcg tyhree times a day, which I take now, as I said, altogether. As far as NDT with this endo: he won't even listen once I even mention NDP because it's not yet approved by the majority of health insurance plans in Florida. The funny thing is my hands and feet stay warm almost the whole day and I can only imagine if I took 30mcg twice a day.

Also, of note is that, as a kid, I was very anemic and one of anemia's symptoms is cold hands and feet, which I just learned by investigation over the net. I don't believe I have had it since childhood but I plan to check my bloods for it. Have you been checked yourself (for anemia?) May peace be with you.

[thyr01d]

Hi GKeith.

Thanks-you for the tip about cold hands and feet, I have very low ferritin, scraping along the very bottom of the range so I think you are probably right.

As for your T3 I have been in the same position, thinking the amount prescribed was too little, but the Professor I am under researches in this and works on behalf of those of us who need T3, so I put my trust in him and the team. If I tell you what's happened to me, you might find it applies to you to. My starting point was TSH over 95 which the Prof said was coma level. I had been on Levo for about 10 years. The Endo started me on 10 mcg T3 twice a day and nothing else. After several months the T3 was increased to three times a day which is the amount I am on now, though with approval to take an extra 10 mcg on very active days. It has taken almost 2 years but now I am so much better I believe the Endocrinologists were right. I take nothing else, so, I think the amount you are on might turn out to be right for you.

To give you hope, from spending a large part of the day in 'black' sleep I can now work very hard in the garden, for hours, then go out on a good dog walk, then go out and teach Yoga, advanced Yoga and feel okay. It's been slow change but I feel as if it's worked at a deep level.

The other thing that might be relevant for you is that the Endocrinologist said at the start -he thought that on T3 my absorption would improve and then my ferritin levels would improve. The ferritin has kept improving, very slowly, but slow and steady seems good.

I am not medically qualified, these are just my thoughts about you based on my own experience.

Best of Luck,

Peace & Joy

[GKeith in reply to thyr01d]

It's my understanding that absorption has only to do with fasting---the emptier your gut the better the absorption rate. That's why I take (took) my 30 prescribed mcgs of lio all together with the T4 last night. I feel as if I might take a 10 or 15 mcg's again today, maybe around noon but I may not, also, as the only "symptom" I have right now is my hands are gradually getting colder but it could be that I'm just a bit dehydrated from a 'nasty' (hard) workout yesterday. I always feel it when I get the sniffles that night while resting and/or the next day. The main thing, for me, is that I, myself, have to do it because my endo just don't give a damn and (only) gets mad when I appear to be 'self-diagnosing' (I am) as he expects me to be 'the patient,' while he is 'the doctor.' He totally forgets that I am the one who "feels" the results of his diagnosis', not him.

I am happy to see that you feel better because you obviously had to 'wait' quite a while to get there. Me, I'm always lookin' for a 'shortcut,' and I just don't have enough 'faith' in doctors to let them play God with me, no matter how many degrees they have or how many other doctors 'agree' with them. May God's peace be upon you.

[thyr01d]

Thanks for your reply GKeith. It seems to me that you are very happy with what you are doing and have managed your condition excellently so don't need any input. Just in case though, because of the iron situation, you are talking about immediate absorption of T3, my Pro/Endo were talking about long-term absorption. Do you know it can be a problem for those of us with uat resulting in low iron? Which you thought might explain your cold hands and feet.

May Universal Peace be surround you and be within you.

[GKeith]

What is uat?

[helvella in reply to GKeith]

My Abbreviations and Acronyms document has that and many others in it:

dropbox.com/s/og3lmxa1dqadb...

uat = Underactive Thyroid

[GKeith]

Cool, thanks a lot.